Quali modes restrictions from Monza

[JonChalk]

...but only limits the teams to using the same mode in quali as the race.

So Mercedes can pick a power mode that balances power with reliability risk, and still be faster.

Mission accomplished!!

https://www.racefans.net/2020/08/21/technical-dire...

[Exige77]

Presumably they can still be used in Practice to find the best all round mode for Quali & Race ?

[JonChalk]

Exige77 said:

Presumably they can still be used in Practice to find the best all round mode for Quali & Race ?

It's a good point - a number of media sites say just quali and race - can't find a copy of the directive itself yet.

If media correct, then your assumption may well be right.

edit: even the F1 site suggests quali and race only, with same caveat: https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.qualify...

Edited by JonChalk on Friday 21st August 13:43

[DanielSan]

Coming soon. Fans complaining we don't get to see these cars go as fast in qualifying as they can really go while completely ignoring the fact they were complaining about the Mercedes doing exactly that in a few months before.

[TheDeuce]

JonChalk said:

Exige77 said:

Presumably they can still be used in Practice to find the best all round mode for Quali & Race ?

It's a good point - a number of media sites say just quali and race - can't find a copy of the directive itself yet.

If media correct, then your assumption may well be right.

It has to be that way surely - a main aspect of FP is that they can run just about what they want in order to find the best setup, test new kit, aero rakes etc.

It's probably not mentioned specifically as being allowable to use various modes in practice as it doesn't need to be.

[Sandpit Steve]

So we are looking at a load of protests, arguments over different modes usually used in races, what if it rains or we have an SC, how do push-to-pass buttons work, are they banned in qualifying or the race etc etc.

Meanwhile, Mercedes will adapt in the best way possible, and extend their lead over the other teams - the complete opposite of the intention of the rules. Remember that Mercedes have had only seven mechanical retirements since the start of the 2015 season, which is unprecedented reliability in a prototype series.

[JonChalk]

Quote from Toto Wolff:

"So five laps of qualifying mode not being done gives us 25 laps of more performance in the race... and even if it may hurt us more in qualifying, which I'm not sure, then it will hurt all the others in the same way."

In other words, quali gap may not be so great, but race pace may go up.

[Kraken]

Sandpit Steve said:

So we are looking at a load of protests, arguments over different modes usually used in races, what if it rains or we have an SC, how do push-to-pass buttons work, are they banned in qualifying or the race etc etc.

Meanwhile, Mercedes will adapt in the best way possible, and extend their lead over the other teams - the complete opposite of the intention of the rules. Remember that Mercedes have had only seven mechanical retirements since the start of the 2015 season, which is unprecedented reliability in a prototype series.

If you believe the sole intention of the rule is to slow Mercedes down or, as the FIA have said, it's to allow them to police what is really happening with the engines as the software is masking what the hardware is doing.

[Sandpit Steve]

Kraken said:

If you believe the sole intention of the rule is to slow Mercedes down or, as the FIA have said, it's to allow them to police what is really happening with the engines as the software is masking what the hardware is doing.

Indeed that’s what they say, but they can’t exactly say it’s because they don’t like one team being a second a lap faster than all the others, can they?

It definitely looks like they’re trying to use the cover of a technical directive to make a change to the sporting regulations in the middle of a season, which would require unanimous agreement from the teams. The FIA have got themselves in a right pickle here, just as they did with Ferrari last year and Racing Point earlier this year.

[TheDeuce]

Sandpit Steve said:

Kraken said:

If you believe the sole intention of the rule is to slow Mercedes down or, as the FIA have said, it's to allow them to police what is really happening with the engines as the software is masking what the hardware is doing.

Indeed that’s what they say, but they can’t exactly say it’s because they don’t like one team being a second a lap faster than all the others, can they?

It definitely looks like they’re trying to use the cover of a technical directive to make a change to the sporting regulations in the middle of a season, which would require unanimous agreement from the teams. The FIA have got themselves in a right pickle here, just as they did with Ferrari last year and Racing Point earlier this year.

Are they in a pickle with this? So far as I can see the worst that can happen from the FIA's perspective from this change is that it simply won't be effective enough to make a worthwhile difference. On the other hand, it probably will also allow easier policing in some areas. I can see why overall it's a change worth making from their perspective.

As a fan I'm almost disinterested. Might miss seeing some almost unbelievably quick quali laps... Might also enjoy the greater race pace at some circuits. It's not exactly a game changer though is it?

[coetzeeh]

TheDeuce said:

It's not exactly a game changer though is it?

or is it? Lots of speculation but I think the FIA is on to something - they probably just need to refine how to hit the jackpot.

We'll know in Monza.

[JonChalk]

coetzeeh said:

or is it? Lots of speculation but I think the FIA is on to something - they probably just need to refine how to hit the jackpot.

We'll know in Monza.

Yes, two "power" circuits one after the after, should be pretty good evidence from Spa to Monza.

[TheDeuce]

coetzeeh said:

TheDeuce said:

It's not exactly a game changer though is it?

or is it? Lots of speculation but I think the FIA is on to something - they probably just need to refine how to hit the jackpot.

We'll know in Monza.

I think Monza will be interesting as a result of this (which is another good/tempting reason for them making any sort of change really..) but I'm not sure it'll be conclusive as to how effective it will be. High chance of some teams tripping over the new rule initially and throwing up some unusual but not enduring results perhaps. Give it a few races and then we'll see how effective it really is.

[anonymous-user]

JonChalk said:

Quote from Toto Wolff:

"So five laps of qualifying mode not being done gives us 25 laps of more performance in the race... and even if it may hurt us more in qualifying, which I'm not sure, then it will hurt all the others in the same way."

In other words, quali gap may not be so great, but race pace may go up.

Yes, he has said that, but why say anything unless he’s concerned about the change?

We can’t know exactly what the gain/loss will be but I think most teams would be quite happy to lose a few tenths in qualifying to gain a few for half of the race.

Especially if they have a second a lap on most of the others in qualifying.

If Mercedes can do that why didn’t they?

And if the others are similarly hurt in qualifying then they too should be able to benefit in the race.

Where the tyres are the limiting factor most times in any case.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 21st August 20:40

[mattikake]

They're trying to slow down Mercedes, but all they will succeed in doing is slowing down RP and Williams.

[Teddy Lop]

JonChalk said:

Quote from Toto Wolff:

"So five laps of qualifying mode not being done gives us 25 laps of more performance in the race... and even if it may hurt us more in qualifying, which I'm not sure, then it will hurt all the others in the same way."

In other words, quali gap may not be so great, but race pace may go up.

Car with best engine still best after fairly broad new rule

I actually wonder if it may affect the others more than merc, for example honda taking a risk with qually modes in a death or glory attempt at a circuit where you can control a race, relying on merc to play sensible and conservative all year long.

[Deesee]

Exige77 said:

Presumably they can still be used in Practice to find the best all round mode for Quali & Race ?

Free Practice is still ok to do what ever you need to..

There was talk of moving Parc Ferme to P3, but it’s still from quali.

Most of the mapping will be done on the sim/dyno.

[Deesee]

Sandpit Steve said:

how do push-to-pass buttons work, are they banned in qualifying or the race etc etc.

They will still have up to 30 seconds of optional deployment.

I’d imagine they are all working on developing a ‘electrical supercharger race mode’, the clever way the battery powers the MGUH that’s used in Q3.

[TheDeuce]

Teddy Lop said:

Car with best engine still best after fairly broad new rule

I actually wonder if it may affect the others more than merc, for example honda taking a risk with qually modes in a death or glory attempt at a circuit where you can control a race, relying on merc to play sensible and conservative all year long.

I think honda have relied upon extreme modes to attack/defend for sure. At times last season I was quite shocked to see how fast they could wind their car up when they sniffed a result. Merc supposedly has the biggest quali mode advantage but I'd bet the difference to RB is pretty slim really..

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see this effect RB to the same extent it effects Merc - although Merc will still have a superior car in other regards anyway.

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

Teddy Lop said:

Car with best engine still best after fairly broad new rule

I actually wonder if it may affect the others more than merc, for example honda taking a risk with qually modes in a death or glory attempt at a circuit where you can control a race, relying on merc to play sensible and conservative all year long.

I think honda have relied upon extreme modes to attack/defend for sure. At times last season I was quite shocked to see how fast they could wind their car up when they sniffed a result. Merc supposedly has the biggest quali mode advantage but I'd bet the difference to RB is pretty slim really..

Wouldn't be at all surprised to see this effect RB to the same extent it effects Merc - although Merc will still have a superior car in other regards anyway.

on the surface it'll affect their engines to a similar degree, but if I'm correct it removes a strategy option RB/honda would have tried to exploit more than merc. Best car usually plays safe with strat, the team that figure the titles are off the table but sneaky race win glories aren't will play dangerous...