Sprint race gains traction
Discussion
https://www.bbc.com/sport/amp/formula1/54063417
Hardly a surprise after the last race but what is this crap about using it to set the grid for the main sunday race?
No. All you've got to do is copy the F2 format, including tyres - longevity and usage etc. The best driver and team still wins overall and the races have been the best in the world for the last 10 years or so imo.
Hardly a surprise after the last race but what is this crap about using it to set the grid for the main sunday race?
No. All you've got to do is copy the F2 format, including tyres - longevity and usage etc. The best driver and team still wins overall and the races have been the best in the world for the last 10 years or so imo.
WickerBill said:
sticky plaster to cover up bigger issues
sort out the technical regs and there wont be any need for this, drs etc.
if youre going to do this, then have passing points. every position gained in the race gives you an extra point.
They are sorting out the technical regs to sort out the issues but with Covid everything is delayed by a year so next year could a very dull season with only minor changes to alleviate the tyre issues. Using that season to trial some new ideas seems perfectly sensible to me.sort out the technical regs and there wont be any need for this, drs etc.
if youre going to do this, then have passing points. every position gained in the race gives you an extra point.
ch37 said:
The big concern seems to be gaming the system.
I haven't had time to follow F2 closely, but from what I understand of the format, there is not much to 'game', as points are awarded for both races?
Reduced points for the reverse grid races. F2 is consistently exciting to watch both with strategies and overtaking. It has been highlighting the best racers year on year.I haven't had time to follow F2 closely, but from what I understand of the format, there is not much to 'game', as points are awarded for both races?
The F2 races are the highlight of the weekend every round.
There is nothing to game and points for overtaking are simply not required.
Kraken said:
They are sorting out the technical regs to sort out the issues but with Covid everything is delayed by a year so next year could a very dull season with only minor changes to alleviate the tyre issues. Using that season to trial some new ideas seems perfectly sensible to me.
not sure i buy that completely.i get what they are doing, but i dont think weve had a boring season this year to be fair.
Given lower placed teams are allowed more tokens to develop next season, and parts are being taken away from Mercedes ie DAS, engine modes etc, the pack should close up naturally anyway.
Maybe youre right, maybe its worth a try....but it needs to be thought through properly so people cant cheat the system, and the best man/ team still win.
mattikake said:
Reduced points for the reverse grid races. F2 is consistently exciting to watch both with strategies and overtaking. It has been highlighting the best racers year on year.
The F2 races are the highlight of the weekend every round.
There is nothing to game and points for overtaking are simply not required.
F2 isnt F1. the cars are identical, overtaking is easier due to 'simpler' aero. The F2 races are the highlight of the weekend every round.
There is nothing to game and points for overtaking are simply not required.
we saw at the weekend with 3rd to 7th place in the race, that they were basically stuck in a DRS zone....there was very little overtaking by some of the best overtakers in the business.
what i wouldnt want to happen is someone who would usually be in 7th, get pole, then be quick enough for people not overtake, but slow enough for people to say it wasnt a proper win....
....i suppose this is where strategy comes in a bit and maybe F1 need to mandate a minimum of 2 stops with a bigger offset in the tyre compounds
Here lays the big F1 dilemma.
Should it be something from which we enjoy watching as a competitive demonstration of meritocracy?
Or should it be a form of entertainment?
I don't think it can be both. My view is that whilst F1 can and often is 'entertaining' to watch, it should never be 'entertainment' in the absolute sense. It is and should always be a competition in which the best team, car and driver prevail.
Whilst Gasly and Alpha Tauri proved to be the best on Sunday, their win came about as a result of an unusual set of circumstances that demonstrate why it can sometimes be highly entertaining. But if you suddenly find the likes of them, Hass, Williams, etc suddenly winning races because of what would be contrived circumstances, then you undermine the very nature of not just F1 but of sport which seeks to reward quality and skill over luck.
Should it be something from which we enjoy watching as a competitive demonstration of meritocracy?
Or should it be a form of entertainment?
I don't think it can be both. My view is that whilst F1 can and often is 'entertaining' to watch, it should never be 'entertainment' in the absolute sense. It is and should always be a competition in which the best team, car and driver prevail.
Whilst Gasly and Alpha Tauri proved to be the best on Sunday, their win came about as a result of an unusual set of circumstances that demonstrate why it can sometimes be highly entertaining. But if you suddenly find the likes of them, Hass, Williams, etc suddenly winning races because of what would be contrived circumstances, then you undermine the very nature of not just F1 but of sport which seeks to reward quality and skill over luck.
StevieBee said:
Whilst Gasly and Alpha Tauri proved to be the best on Sunday, their win came about as a result of an unusual set of circumstances that demonstrate why it can sometimes be highly entertaining. But if you suddenly find the likes of them, Hass, Williams, etc suddenly winning races because of what would be contrived circumstances, then you undermine the very nature of not just F1 but of sport which seeks to reward quality and skill over luck.
The F2 system (for example) is not going to see Haas or Williams winning races unless there are an equally freak set of circumstances as we saw at Monza.Saturday would be a typical race, with the added drama of drivers in 9th and back battling to try and get in the top 8.
With the teams as they currently stand, you'd have a hell of a scrap on Sunday with anyone from McLaren, Racing Point, Renault, maybe Albon and LeClerc or an Alphatauri at the sharp end, with Mercedes and Verstappen filling 6-8.
With the balance as it is now, you're still likely to see Hamilton, Bottas and Verstappen making up places, certainly enough that the very top of the driver standings wouldn't be artificially impacted by it even with nearly half the grid reversed.
You only have to look at how quickly Raikonnen went backwards (over half distance) to see that you're not going to suddenly have a Williams winning a race under normal circumstances.
StevieBee said:
Here lays the big F1 dilemma.
Should it be something from which we enjoy watching as a competitive demonstration of meritocracy?
Or should it be a form of entertainment?
I don't think it can be both. My view is that whilst F1 can and often is 'entertaining' to watch, it should never be 'entertainment' in the absolute sense. It is and should always be a competition in which the best team, car and driver prevail.
Whilst Gasly and Alpha Tauri proved to be the best on Sunday, their win came about as a result of an unusual set of circumstances that demonstrate why it can sometimes be highly entertaining. But if you suddenly find the likes of them, Hass, Williams, etc suddenly winning races because of what would be contrived circumstances, then you undermine the very nature of not just F1 but of sport which seeks to reward quality and skill over luck.
This is the key point. It should be a sport first and entertainment second. As with all sports, if you enjoy it you will watch it. I’m all for finding ways of making it a better spectacle, but it shouldn’t be at the detriment of the competition.Should it be something from which we enjoy watching as a competitive demonstration of meritocracy?
Or should it be a form of entertainment?
I don't think it can be both. My view is that whilst F1 can and often is 'entertaining' to watch, it should never be 'entertainment' in the absolute sense. It is and should always be a competition in which the best team, car and driver prevail.
Whilst Gasly and Alpha Tauri proved to be the best on Sunday, their win came about as a result of an unusual set of circumstances that demonstrate why it can sometimes be highly entertaining. But if you suddenly find the likes of them, Hass, Williams, etc suddenly winning races because of what would be contrived circumstances, then you undermine the very nature of not just F1 but of sport which seeks to reward quality and skill over luck.
No one watches athletics and says, this isn’t exciting enough, how can we spice this up?
No one watches golf and suggests placing big fans next to the tees.
No one watches rugby and suggests greasing up the winning teams hands.
If you like the sport you will watch it anyway.
ch37 said:
StevieBee said:
Whilst Gasly and Alpha Tauri proved to be the best on Sunday, their win came about as a result of an unusual set of circumstances that demonstrate why it can sometimes be highly entertaining. But if you suddenly find the likes of them, Hass, Williams, etc suddenly winning races because of what would be contrived circumstances, then you undermine the very nature of not just F1 but of sport which seeks to reward quality and skill over luck.
The F2 system (for example) is not going to see Haas or Williams winning races unless there are an equally freak set of circumstances as we saw at Monza.Saturday would be a typical race, with the added drama of drivers in 9th and back battling to try and get in the top 8.
With the teams as they currently stand, you'd have a hell of a scrap on Sunday with anyone from McLaren, Racing Point, Renault, maybe Albon and LeClerc or an Alphatauri at the sharp end, with Mercedes and Verstappen filling 6-8.
With the balance as it is now, you're still likely to see Hamilton, Bottas and Verstappen making up places, certainly enough that the very top of the driver standings wouldn't be artificially impacted by it even with nearly half the grid reversed.
You only have to look at how quickly Raikonnen went backwards (over half distance) to see that you're not going to suddenly have a Williams winning a race under normal circumstances.
There's no secret to what would improve the closeness of the racing - a reduction in the reliance on over body downforce.
It's the same every time we have a 'freak' race.
When it rains, everyone says we should have randomly-fired sprinklers on the circuit.
When the grid is mixed up, everyone wants to replicate why.
When we have a safety car freak incident, like last Sunday, everyone wants it to happen again.
But then everyone calms down and realises that to do so would stage-manage the sport, which has had the same principle of fastest qualifier is rewarded with leading off and being chased for years on end.
Change the players, don't change the game.
When it rains, everyone says we should have randomly-fired sprinklers on the circuit.
When the grid is mixed up, everyone wants to replicate why.
When we have a safety car freak incident, like last Sunday, everyone wants it to happen again.
But then everyone calms down and realises that to do so would stage-manage the sport, which has had the same principle of fastest qualifier is rewarded with leading off and being chased for years on end.
Change the players, don't change the game.
The route cause of the problem is that Mercedes are just too good. Unlike previous periods where teams have dominated, Mercedes have shown they can adapt no matter what the FIA throws at them.
The budget caps will help even the playing field, but as Ferrari have proven, it’s not just about the money.
No one seemed bothered about Usain Bolt winning everything. I’m not a Mercedes fan but you have to give credit where credit’s due.
The budget caps will help even the playing field, but as Ferrari have proven, it’s not just about the money.
No one seemed bothered about Usain Bolt winning everything. I’m not a Mercedes fan but you have to give credit where credit’s due.
It's a gimmick to appease people with the attention span of a small child.
F1 Currently is more entertaining than it has ever been. Yes Mercedes have won a lot. But they deserve it. The have however been run close a few seasons, and if Ferrari were in any way competent could have won a championship or two.
Take the rose tinted glasses off where the lead car would have lapped the entire grid twice. Or where there were unexpected winners due to unreliability.
Overtaking does not exclusively make for entertaining races. Watching Sainz chase down Gasly was exciting without the overtake at the end.
This is a sport where the point is to build the fastest car and put the best driver you can in it.
If you want to watch reverse grids. Watch F2 and BTCC.
F1 Currently is more entertaining than it has ever been. Yes Mercedes have won a lot. But they deserve it. The have however been run close a few seasons, and if Ferrari were in any way competent could have won a championship or two.
Take the rose tinted glasses off where the lead car would have lapped the entire grid twice. Or where there were unexpected winners due to unreliability.
Overtaking does not exclusively make for entertaining races. Watching Sainz chase down Gasly was exciting without the overtake at the end.
This is a sport where the point is to build the fastest car and put the best driver you can in it.
If you want to watch reverse grids. Watch F2 and BTCC.
CustardOnChips said:
It's a gimmick to appease people with the attention span of a small child.
F1 Currently is more entertaining than it has ever been. Yes Mercedes have won a lot. But they deserve it. The have however been run close a few seasons, and if Ferrari were in any way competent could have won a championship or two.
Take the rose tinted glasses off where the lead car would have lapped the entire grid twice. Or where there were unexpected winners due to unreliability.
Overtaking does not exclusively make for entertaining races. Watching Sainz chase down Gasly was exciting without the overtake at the end.
This is a sport where the point is to build the fastest car and put the best driver you can in it.
If you want to watch reverse grids. Watch F2 and BTCC.
This is what I would have said if I was more eloquent.F1 Currently is more entertaining than it has ever been. Yes Mercedes have won a lot. But they deserve it. The have however been run close a few seasons, and if Ferrari were in any way competent could have won a championship or two.
Take the rose tinted glasses off where the lead car would have lapped the entire grid twice. Or where there were unexpected winners due to unreliability.
Overtaking does not exclusively make for entertaining races. Watching Sainz chase down Gasly was exciting without the overtake at the end.
This is a sport where the point is to build the fastest car and put the best driver you can in it.
If you want to watch reverse grids. Watch F2 and BTCC.
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