Costs $200 million in advance for a new team to join F1?
Costs $200 million in advance for a new team to join F1?
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Discussion

RDMcG

Original Poster:

20,063 posts

223 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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https://jalopnik.com/new-teams-have-to-pay-200-mil...


I imagine that the old days of shoestring teams like the original Williams or Tyrrel will never be seen again in F1.


The Moose

23,411 posts

225 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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That's the biggest dumb-butt thing I've heard for a long time.

Evolved

3,922 posts

203 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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They struggle to retain the teams they do have, alienating any new entries is a great idea.

WickerBill

905 posts

64 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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I see the logic.

They’ve only just got in place a Concorde agreement that distributes money more evenly to help smaller teams, why on earth would they want more teams to enter, dilute those payments and reverse any progress made in that department,

Slapping on a 200 million fee will ensure F1 is about quality rather than quantity. We don’t need more than 10 teams, and I’d rather have 10 strong healthy teams than 12-14 with weak teams.

If new investors are seriously interested they can now enter F1 just as Dorilton Capital have, which ensures they are serious about their investment in the long term and aren’t just interested in the increased prize money in the short term.

CedricN

840 posts

161 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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Pretty unnecessary, its not like there are hordes of teams waiting to shove hundreds of million into car development etc to barely hang on the back of the grid. The current economics keeps new teams out anyway, but this was a clear signal that they are fine with 10 teams and dont want any newcomers.

If they really meant it they would hand those millions back after the first or 2nd season, when the team has proven that they really are into it.

scrw.

2,951 posts

206 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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I remember watching the documentary about the Stewart F1 startup and Jackie moaning about having to pay a 25 million deposit, gone up a touch hasn't it!

ch37

10,642 posts

237 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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Are there any facilities knocking around that could accommodate a new F1 team? My guess is if a brand new team was going to come along (with $200m) they'd need to be attached to a current car/engine builder from another high-end series, at the very least. They'd probably want to be in the UK, too.

Even Haas - who are a rare team from recent years in that they are entirely brand new to F1 - bought the Marussia HQ to supplement their US base.

realjv

1,161 posts

182 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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Sounds like basically the same business model as NFL / MLB etc where expansion teams have to pay a hefty fee to the league/existing teams. In F1 it is essentially the sport moving to almost a franchise model. Every team on the grid is now worth at least $200m (assuming someone is will to pay it) which isn't a bad return for Dorilton on their Williams investment already.

thegreenhell

20,012 posts

235 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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It sounds like protectionism to me, which in some other industries would be illegal.

What it does is pretty much guarantee that no new teams will enter the sport, as well as instantly placing the value of existing teams at at least $200m. The only realistic way into the sport now is to buy an existing team. This means Dorilton got a bargain when they payed way less than that for Williams - for the team, infrastructure, assets, brand, heritage, and access to Concord payments - all while sidestepping the buy-in fee.

ch37

10,642 posts

237 months

Monday 14th September 2020
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
It sounds like protectionism to me, which in some other industries would be illegal.

What it does is pretty much guarantee that no new teams will enter the sport, as well as instantly placing the value of existing teams at at least $200m. The only realistic way into the sport now is to buy an existing team. This means Dorilton got a bargain when they payed way less than that for Williams - for the team, infrastructure, assets, brand, heritage, and access to Concord payments - all while sidestepping the buy-in fee.
As others have mentioned, it sends a message that 10 teams is fine, thank you very much.

Realistically the only way in for some time has been to buy an existing team, or at the very least their entry/factory. It's far more likely that a manufacturer will leave at some point and sell up to some sort of independent/consortium, than it is an entirely new team coming in.

rdjohn

6,747 posts

211 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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If you want to know where the Williams price tag came from, then divide $200million by the current £/$ exchange rate.

And you got a load of decent assets for free.

MiniMan64

18,307 posts

206 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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That effectively kills off any new entries doesn’t it.

Doesn’t seem great for the sport

usn90

1,809 posts

86 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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It was only a few years back you had teams not being able to make the 107% rule, they were mobile chicanes, I seem to remember one (caterham or HRT) who didn’t qualify for f1, and would have been mid pack at best in the gp2 field

Would rather have teams who are able to fund the team properly.

The Moose

23,411 posts

225 months

Monday 14th September 2020
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usn90 said:
It was only a few years back you had teams not being able to make the 107% rule, they were mobile chicanes, I seem to remember one (caterham or HRT) who didn’t qualify for f1, and would have been mid pack at best in the gp2 field

Would rather have teams who are able to fund the team properly.
Then lodge a bond with someone!

Jon39

13,900 posts

159 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
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There has been a history of car manufacturer teams, making sudden exits from F1.

During tricky economic times, a manufacturer might be making employees redundant, whilst at the same time, splashing millions on motor racing.
Never looks good.

Renault F1 have announced a name change to Alpine for 2021.
Recently Renault/Nissan announced dreadful first half 2020 results. There was even a suggestion that Alpine was possibly too small to continue, but no boardroom decisions yet.


2 sMoKiN bArReLs

31,257 posts

251 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
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MiniMan64 said:
That effectively kills off any new entries doesn’t it.

Doesn’t seem great for the sport
But it's already killed off isn't it? Red Bull (for example) have several factory units on their site employing about 800 people. Not many folk could hit the ground running to compete with that.

2 sMoKiN bArReLs

31,257 posts

251 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
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I've said it before, but if the Red Bull man wakes up one day & decides not to promote his drink via F1, then F1 is over anyway. (without a radical shake up)


MiniMan64

18,307 posts

206 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
quotequote all
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I've said it before, but if the Red Bull man wakes up one day & decides not to promote his drink via F1, then F1 is over anyway. (without a radical shake up)
Couldn’t you say the same for Mercedes?

Or for Ferrari? Who would only leave to form their own championship...

2 sMoKiN bArReLs

31,257 posts

251 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
quotequote all
MiniMan64 said:
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
I've said it before, but if the Red Bull man wakes up one day & decides not to promote his drink via F1, then F1 is over anyway. (without a radical shake up)
Couldn’t you say the same for Mercedes?

Or for Ferrari? Who would only leave to form their own championship...
Red Bull is worse as it's 4 cars in one go. I guess folk could source other engines.

ch37

10,642 posts

237 months

Wednesday 16th September 2020
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I think the threat of a breakaway championship with Ferrari leading the way is long gone, if they did I don't think it would become the default premier series just because of their involvement. The economy and the car industry is in a very different place to several years ago. If, eventually, a combustion engine championship becomes unsustainable FE is already well established, and we could see a resurgence of touring cars, albeit electrified. A company like Ferrari seem most at risk in terms of being involved in whatever comes next, they are pretty much one of the biggest 'marque' manufacturers left not already invested in electric racing.

More likely that manufacturers will just put all their eggs in the FE basket. They already have Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Jaguar and Porsche.