INEOS to take control of Mercedes F1
Discussion
I'd be interested to see or read the context of the suggestion.
In the absence of that, I'd say that if Mercedes did ever decide to withdraw, then it's entirely possible. Ineos could afford to buy the whole of F1 from their petty cash tin. I don't see that happening any time soon, though.
In the absence of that, I'd say that if Mercedes did ever decide to withdraw, then it's entirely possible. Ineos could afford to buy the whole of F1 from their petty cash tin. I don't see that happening any time soon, though.
Evercross said:
I know the notion came from the mouth of Eddie Jordan, but the lovable nutter has a habit of calling these things (fairly) accurately.
Any thoughts?
Wasn't this back before ineos were announced as sponsor? If so I'd assume Eddie knew 'something' was going to happen and guessed it was more than it turned out to be.Any thoughts?
As for could they buy the team.. sure, why not? Mercedes will leave at some point and someone will buy the team. Could be ineos as much as it could be anyone.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor-f1-mercede...
"Daimler has no intent in giving up the team and Ineos has no interest in buying a majority of the team"
That's not a non-denial denial from Toto that's just a straight denial which is a pretty big deal considering we are talking about a major transaction by a publicly listed German company.
TheDeuce said:
Wasn't this back before ineos were announced as sponsor? If so I'd assume Eddie knew 'something' was going to happen and guessed it was more than it turned out to be.
It may have been recent regurgitation of old news, but I am referring to an article published at the weekend (I won't link to the outlet, but Google will find it) that claimed EJ had said INEOS would own 70% leaving Mercedes with 30%, and it included buying out Toto Wolff's share in its entirety as well as the share owned by the estate of Niki Lauda (for whom it would be wise to sell while Mercedes is riding high before a potential decline following 2022 rules changes).Toto has since given a qualified denial, but knowing EJ I'm inclined to think there is a lot more to this than meets the eye.
Williams recent purchase by a holding company and appointing a temporary CEO makes me think that Wolff fancies a new challenge and already has one hand on the next branch before letting go of the existing one, and will pop-up at at the end of this as owner of Williams. He has history with them and an affection for the brand.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 15th September 12:55
Evercross said:
Williams recent purchase by a holding company and appointing a temporary CEO makes me think that Wolff fancies a new challenge and already has one hand on the next branch before letting go of the existing one, and will pop-up at at the end of this as owner of Williams. He has history with them and an affection for the brand.
Don't be ridiculousEdited by Evercross on Tuesday 15th September 12:55
Piginapoke said:
Evercross said:
Williams recent purchase by a holding company and appointing a temporary CEO makes me think that Wolff fancies a new challenge and already has one hand on the next branch before letting go of the existing one, and will pop-up at at the end of this as owner of Williams. He has history with them and an affection for the brand.
Don't be ridiculousEvercross said:
Piginapoke said:
Evercross said:
Williams recent purchase by a holding company and appointing a temporary CEO makes me think that Wolff fancies a new challenge and already has one hand on the next branch before letting go of the existing one, and will pop-up at at the end of this as owner of Williams. He has history with them and an affection for the brand.
Don't be ridiculousToto to Williams this winter, Hamilton to match Schumachers record this year and beat it the next at Merc,, followed by a retirement period at Williams in 2022 season at age 37...
Toto wants to cut down on his workload so he will go somewhere for massive headaches as there is no talented pool of people to spread the workload. Already seen Paddy lowe crash and burn when he made the move. So seems unlikely to me.
Lewis has an ego . You dont go smaller. He would probably go to ferrari though. Seems likely in 2-3 years time.
Expect EJ to spew this out eventually from his covid19 bunker/boiler room.
Lewis has an ego . You dont go smaller. He would probably go to ferrari though. Seems likely in 2-3 years time.
Expect EJ to spew this out eventually from his covid19 bunker/boiler room.
snotrag said:
Toto to Williams this winter....
I don't think it will happen as soon as that, but there will almost certainly be a merry-go-round at the end of 2022.The re-freshed Concorde agreement invigorates the long-term prospects of the far-end of the grid teams, and one thing we know about major manufacturers is that they have a habit of leaving/cutting involvement the sport at short notice, regardless of success.
At this point it really is just a hunch I have, but Toto has demonstrated he is loyal to the sport rather than a brand (his investments in Williams and RP/Aston show that) and will go where he can perform at his best. Right now that is still at Mercedes, but if he gets a sniff of the wind changing he has escape routes at the ready....
The media listen to Jordan because it was him who broke the story that Sir Lewis had signed for Mercedes as Schumacher’s replacement in the autumn of 2012. Most people at the time thought he was making a huge mistake because Mercedes won one race that season and finished fifth, while McLaren won seven and finished third.
Aside from Jordan’s record, there are plenty of reasons to think the Ineos story might be credible. Mercedes have dominated F1 to such an extent that in terms of success they have nowhere left to go. The future of road cars is electric, and they already compete in FE. Ineos are spending fortunes using high-tech sport to build their brand. Toto has nothing left to achieve at Mercedes, and will inevitably want to cash in his shareholding at some point, as will the Lauda family.
We’ll see...
Aside from Jordan’s record, there are plenty of reasons to think the Ineos story might be credible. Mercedes have dominated F1 to such an extent that in terms of success they have nowhere left to go. The future of road cars is electric, and they already compete in FE. Ineos are spending fortunes using high-tech sport to build their brand. Toto has nothing left to achieve at Mercedes, and will inevitably want to cash in his shareholding at some point, as will the Lauda family.
We’ll see...
thegreenhell said:
It was only last month that Toto sold his remaining 5% share in Williams. That's a clever bluff if he's going back there.
No he didn't.Williams explains Toto Wolff’s shareholding in F1 team.
Claire Williams said:
Toto, as everybody knows bought a shareholding a long time back now, back in 2009, from Frank [Williams] and Patrick [Head].
He then obviously subsequently joined Mercedes, and as part of that move, he obviously had to divest his shareholding.
Brad Hollinger, who is one of our minority shareholders at Williams and a non-exec director, bought the majority of those shares from Toto, but has not completed on that remaining 5%, so they have returned to Toto’s hands.
Wolff: I sold the Williams shares but I got them back.He then obviously subsequently joined Mercedes, and as part of that move, he obviously had to divest his shareholding.
Brad Hollinger, who is one of our minority shareholders at Williams and a non-exec director, bought the majority of those shares from Toto, but has not completed on that remaining 5%, so they have returned to Toto’s hands.
Last time someone pulled a trick like that in F1 his name was Bernard Charles Ecclestone.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 15th September 20:35
Evercross said:
I know the notion came from the mouth of Eddie Jordan, but the lovable nutter has a habit of calling these things (fairly) accurately.
Any thoughts?
My thoughts are that even a broken watch tells the time correctly twice a day.Any thoughts?
EJ made one wild prediction some years back, which turned out to be right.
Since then he’s called nothing that wasn’t completely obvious/an open secret. He isn’t well connected nowadays.
Evercross said:
thegreenhell said:
It was only last month that Toto sold his remaining 5% share in Williams. That's a clever bluff if he's going back there.
No he didn't.Williams explains Toto Wolff’s shareholding in F1 team.
Claire Williams said:
Toto, as everybody knows bought a shareholding a long time back now, back in 2009, from Frank [Williams] and Patrick [Head].
He then obviously subsequently joined Mercedes, and as part of that move, he obviously had to divest his shareholding.
Brad Hollinger, who is one of our minority shareholders at Williams and a non-exec director, bought the majority of those shares from Toto, but has not completed on that remaining 5%, so they have returned to Toto’s hands.
Wolff: I sold the Williams shares but I got them back.He then obviously subsequently joined Mercedes, and as part of that move, he obviously had to divest his shareholding.
Brad Hollinger, who is one of our minority shareholders at Williams and a non-exec director, bought the majority of those shares from Toto, but has not completed on that remaining 5%, so they have returned to Toto’s hands.
Last time someone pulled a trick like that in F1 his name was Bernard Charles Ecclestone.
Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 15th September 20:35
The deal saw Dorilton Capital buy all shares from Williams, including those from majority shareholder and team founder Sir Frank Williams, American businessman Brad Hollinger and Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff, who had retained a 5% shareholding.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-owner-...
thegreenhell said:
Err, yes he did. Keep up at the back.
The deal saw Dorilton Capital buy all shares from Williams, including those from majority shareholder and team founder Sir Frank Williams, American businessman Brad Hollinger and Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff, who had retained a 5% shareholding.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-owner-...
OK so maybe not Williams, then how about RP/Aston (or did he sell them too while no-one was looking)?The deal saw Dorilton Capital buy all shares from Williams, including those from majority shareholder and team founder Sir Frank Williams, American businessman Brad Hollinger and Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff, who had retained a 5% shareholding.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-owner-...
The idea that Mercedes could change hands again is not that preposterous. In my lifetime they have gone from being bailed out by BCE, through to being bought by a tobacco company, to being run by the people now building engines for Red Bull to being owned by a former Ferrari Technical Director/erstwhile FIA consultant.
Only people born yesterday think this is impossible.
Evercross said:
thegreenhell said:
Err, yes he did. Keep up at the back.
The deal saw Dorilton Capital buy all shares from Williams, including those from majority shareholder and team founder Sir Frank Williams, American businessman Brad Hollinger and Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff, who had retained a 5% shareholding.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-owner-...
OK so maybe not Williams, then how about RP/Aston (or did he sell them too while no-one was looking)?The deal saw Dorilton Capital buy all shares from Williams, including those from majority shareholder and team founder Sir Frank Williams, American businessman Brad Hollinger and Mercedes F1 team boss Toto Wolff, who had retained a 5% shareholding.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/williams-owner-...
The idea that Mercedes could change hands again is not that preposterous. In my lifetime they have gone from being bailed out by BCE, through to being bought by a tobacco company, to being run by the people now building engines for Red Bull to being owned by a former Ferrari Technical Director/erstwhile FIA consultant.
Only people born yesterday think this is impossible.
Mercedes selling out to Ineos = possible
Eddie Jordan spouting s
te, again, to get attention because he once got ahead of the game with a tip off from his mate Bernie and has been Living off it/ignored by everyone else for years, and is totally irrelevant to current F1 = probable.
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