Why does F1 not have two races in Japan every year?
Why does F1 not have two races in Japan every year?
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DOCG

Original Poster:

714 posts

70 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
Both Suzuka and Fuji are stonking good circuits, both fully deserving of being a permanent fixture on the calendar. And when we have races at such dreary places/circuits like Sochi, Abu Dhabi, Paul Ricard, Cota, Hanoi, surely there is room for a second Japanese race at Fuji considering the massive importance of Japan in the auto industry and how great these two circuits are.

It could even be done the immediate week following the Suzuka race to greatly save on travel costs.


TheDeuce

29,037 posts

82 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
If it made sense from a marketing and ultimately financial point of view it could happen. There are good financial reasons for several of the other slightly dull circuits you mention being on the calendar.

Also in 'normal times' each country has a single GP, so it's pretty much the norm for Japan to have just one isn't it?

DOCG

Original Poster:

714 posts

70 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
TheDeuce said:
If it made sense from a marketing and ultimately financial point of view it could happen. There are good financial reasons for several of the other slightly dull circuits you mention being on the calendar.

Also in 'normal times' each country has a single GP, so it's pretty much the norm for Japan to have just one isn't it?
Actually Japan did have two races a year in 1994 and 1995, and both Germany and Italy had 2 races a year for many years.

I think F1 has really shot itself in the foot by always going for whichever circuits happen to have promoters willing to pay the most, it is not good for the long-term health of the sport in my opinion. F1 should race at the circuits that fans like to watch them race at the most.

TheDeuce

29,037 posts

82 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
DOCG said:
TheDeuce said:
If it made sense from a marketing and ultimately financial point of view it could happen. There are good financial reasons for several of the other slightly dull circuits you mention being on the calendar.

Also in 'normal times' each country has a single GP, so it's pretty much the norm for Japan to have just one isn't it?
Actually Japan did have two races a year in 1994 and 1995, and both Germany and Italy had 2 races a year for many years.

I think F1 has really shot itself in the foot by always going for whichever circuits happen to have promoters willing to pay the most, it is not good for the long-term health of the sport in my opinion. F1 should race at the circuits that fans like to watch them race at the most.
They don't always choose the promoter that's willing to pay the most though - that's just part of the consideration. To make the most money they also have to consider the quality of the racing and popularity of each venue because ultimately that adds value to the TV rights they sell. This point was proven this season when it was worth it for F1 to sack off the hosting fees and actually pay the circuits... The cost was huge but clearly justified by the alternative loss of even huger TV rights monies.

On the other hand there are some circuits that most viewers couldn't give a toss about so there hosting fees are probably massive and justify being on the calendar as such.

Whichever equals the most money in terms of promoter payment + TV rights value will get the gig.

parabolica

6,887 posts

200 months

Monday 21st September 2020
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It costs a host around $50 million for the privilege of hosting a F1 race; I doubt Japan wants to spend $100mil when they don't even have a japanese driver in the field. That plus the the massive black financial hole caused by the delay of the Olympics...

Muzzer79

12,223 posts

203 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
DOCG said:
TheDeuce said:
If it made sense from a marketing and ultimately financial point of view it could happen. There are good financial reasons for several of the other slightly dull circuits you mention being on the calendar.

Also in 'normal times' each country has a single GP, so it's pretty much the norm for Japan to have just one isn't it?
Actually Japan did have two races a year in 1994 and 1995, and both Germany and Italy had 2 races a year for many years.

I think F1 has really shot itself in the foot by always going for whichever circuits happen to have promoters willing to pay the most, it is not good for the long-term health of the sport in my opinion. F1 should race at the circuits that fans like to watch them race at the most.
F1 (post-Bernie) is trying to spread races around to cover as much of the globe as possible.

They want races in the US, Europe, Asia and have to balance:

Money coming in from promoter
Global marketing appeal of racing there
Feasibility to get it into the calendar in terms of number of races
Timing of when a race can be run locally (avoiding monsoon season or extremely hot summer, for example)
Avoiding other events locally and internationally that are fixed timing-wise and could clash.
Appeal of the circuit, fanbase, etc.

For these reasons, it's quite unusual now to have two races in the same country (this year being exceptional due to Covid)

Prior to this year; the last time a country held two races was 2012, when Spain held the Spanish Grand Prix (Catalunya) and the European Grand Prix (Valencia)

To address Fuji in particular, it's only held four F1 races IINM.

The 1976 race was infamously wet and wouldn't have gone ahead nowadays. In 1977, two spectators were killed there as a result of a crash involving Gilles Villeneuve

In 2007 there was a lot of transportation problems getting fans to and from the circuit and rumours that the circuit (which was owned by Toyota) were preventing fans from supporting teams other than Toyota with flags, etc

In 2008 there was again heavy rain - a common problem in the area.

The circuit itself may be OK, but it's not exactly Spa and I don't see many other people clamouring for it's return to the calendar. They had the opportunity to alternate with Suzuka and couldn't make it work.

Plus, Suzuka itself is widely known as one of the most challenging and exciting tracks to race at, so no need to move from there.


Schermerhorn

4,350 posts

205 months

Monday 21st September 2020
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Red Bull suffered two successive engine related DNFs with Verstappen at Monza and Mugello.

Now, imagine that happened at Suzuka and then Fuji. The PR fallout would be very bad in a country that prides itself on its achievements and is very patriotic......


StevieBee

14,277 posts

271 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Prior to this year; the last time a country held two races was 2012, when Spain held the Spanish Grand Prix (Catalunya) and the European Grand Prix (Valencia)
A favour from Bernie to Briatore who had the Spanish TV rights and wanted to capitalise on the Alonso effect.

The 'European Grand Prix' is a term that's been used to permit two races in one country - i.e. Germany at the height of Schumacher's popularity there.

Bottom line is that if the bottom line might benefit, then it would be considered.

Whenever the idea of a 'London Grand Prix' rears its head, one of the concerns is the impact it would have on the British GP in terms of spectators - the theory being that there'd be a dilution across both the London and British GPs which would render the economics of both, shaky.

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
France used to have two rounds of the World Championship as well - one branded as the Swiss GP.

Of course, before the total lock down on non-championship F1 races, there were many examples of countries hosting not only two but sometimes two or more F1 races - for contemporary teams and drivers.

In 1964 there were six top flight F1 races in the UK alone, the official Grand Prix at Brands Hatch, the Daily Mirror Trophy at Snetterton, the News of the World Trophy at Goodwood, the Aintree Trophy, the International Tourist Trophy at Silverstone and the Oulton Park Gold Cup.

thegreenhell

20,012 posts

235 months

Monday 21st September 2020
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
A favour from Bernie to Briatore who had the Spanish TV rights and wanted to capitalise on the Alonso effect.

The 'European Grand Prix' is a term that's been used to permit two races in one country - i.e. Germany at the height of Schumacher's popularity there.
In certain years in the 90s we had the European GP at Jerez, the Luxembourg GP at Nurburgring and the San Marino GP at Imola, in addition to the Spanish, German and Italian GPs. The championship was a lot more Euro-centric back then.

The_Nugget

722 posts

73 months

Tuesday 22nd September 2020
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
Red Bull suffered two successive engine related DNFs with Verstappen at Monza and Mugello.

Now, imagine that happened at Suzuka and then Fuji. The PR fallout would be very bad in a country that prides itself on its achievements and is very patriotic......
Yes, because the Japanese presumably don’t watch races outside of their country like everyone else?

DOCG

Original Poster:

714 posts

70 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
In certain years in the 90s we had the European GP at Jerez, the Luxembourg GP at Nurburgring and the San Marino GP at Imola, in addition to the Spanish, German and Italian GPs. The championship was a lot more Euro-centric back then.
In my opinion it should still be as most of the great and historic circuits are in Europe

Muzzer79

12,223 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
DOCG said:
thegreenhell said:
In certain years in the 90s we had the European GP at Jerez, the Luxembourg GP at Nurburgring and the San Marino GP at Imola, in addition to the Spanish, German and Italian GPs. The championship was a lot more Euro-centric back then.
In my opinion it should still be as most of the great and historic circuits are in Europe
Hardly a 'World' Championship then is it?


DOCG

Original Poster:

714 posts

70 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Hardly a 'World' Championship then is it?
Why can't it be a World Championship if it races at the greatest circuits in the world, but the majority of those happen to be in Europe?

stemll

4,722 posts

216 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
DOCG said:
thegreenhell said:
In certain years in the 90s we had the European GP at Jerez, the Luxembourg GP at Nurburgring and the San Marino GP at Imola, in addition to the Spanish, German and Italian GPs. The championship was a lot more Euro-centric back then.
In my opinion it should still be as most of the great and historic circuits are in Europe
Hardly a 'World' Championship then is it?
No different from most teams and drivers being European and with the teams that is highly unlikely to change. All of the teams including Haas have European bases and even Honda build their engines in the UK.

Drivers are more diverse than the teams and even there, only 6 of 20 are not European and 4 of those are from North/Central America.

WEC is mostly European races too, is that not a World Championship either?

Pericoloso

44,044 posts

179 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
How many world champion drivers has the UK had ?.....many.
How many Italians, Germans, French ?......many
How many Japanese champions ?

DOCG

Original Poster:

714 posts

70 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
How many world champion drivers has the UK had ?.....many.
How many Italians, Germans, French ?......many
How many Japanese champions ?
How many cherry blossoms do those countries have in spring?

Eric Mc

124,034 posts

281 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
How many world champion drivers has the UK had ?.....many.
How many Italians, Germans, French ?......many
How many Japanese champions ?
One Italian - Ascari (and he wasn't even driving a Formula 1 car on the two occasions he was World Champion)
One French - Prost
Two Germans - Schumacher and Vettel

Britain leads by a mile (Hawthorn, Hill G, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell, Hill D, Hamilton, Button).

DOCG

Original Poster:

714 posts

70 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
One Italian - Ascari (and he wasn't even driving a Formula 1 car on the two occasions he was World Champion)
One French - Prost
Two Germans - Schumacher and Vettel

Britain leads by a mile (Hawthorn, Hill G, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell, Hill D, Hamilton, Button).
When did Mario Andretti stop being Italian?

thegreenhell

20,012 posts

235 months

Wednesday 23rd September 2020
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
One Italian - Ascari (and he wasn't even driving a Formula 1 car on the two occasions he was World Champion)
One French - Prost
Two Germans - Schumacher and Vettel

Britain leads by a mile (Hawthorn, Hill G, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell, Hill D, Hamilton, Button).
Farina (the first WDC in 1950) was also Italian.