Charles vs Sainz. Choose your hero

[exelero]

I want both of them to do well, and I might like Charles a bit more. To be fair Ferrari signed Sainz as a 2nd driver but I’m afraid they are in for a rude awakening.
Who will you support?

Edited by exelero on Monday 18th January 00:45

[rdjohn]

Seems that you missed this https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154299/ferrari-l...

I think it could be a good duel, but cant see either of them offering a huge threat to either Lewis, or Max, assuming their car is up to it.

[eps]

Sainz for me.

He was (in my opinion) unfairly overlooked when he was team mates with Max Verstappen. They were nip and tuck with each other and I have a feeling that Carlos scored more points than Max, but might be wrong.

He's a decent driver, but this is now his time to shine against a quality opponent..

[TheDeuce]

rdjohn said:

Seems that you missed this https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/154299/ferrari-l...

The equal status decision was made at the end of the 2019 season in fact. Having spent the entire season tripping over themselves trying to prioritise seb by default and complex driver agreements pre race that both ignored during the race.. they (binotto to his credit) announced such politics were no longer beneficial.

That would have been a bigger story in terms of Ferrari but at the same time they were being undone for cheating, which became the headline story. But really, even with the cheat power, their 2019 season was largely thrown away due to contrived strategy and nonsensical decisions as to who should be prioritised.

[DanielSan]

LeClerc will beat Sainz in qualifying, but I think he's in for a massive shock on Sunday's how often he'll finish behind Sainz.

[exelero]

DanielSan said:

LeClerc will beat Sainz in qualifying, but I think he's in for a massive shock on Sunday's how often he'll finish behind Sainz.

Can’t wait to see. As I said before I kind of like them both. Carlos should’ve stayed at McLaren and Danny should’ve stayed at Renault. Magnus sem to Ferrari or Hulk to Ferrari and job is a good un’. I just don’t want Sainz to have his career destroyed by Ferrari

[TwentyFive]

I have no preference, but I like them both as drivers and hope to see them do well.

In my view it has to be one of, if not the overall strongest pairing in F1 for 2021.

The equal status is good news, although how long that would last if one of them is in a title fight then who knows. I sense they are both completely ruthless if required despite their relaxed demeanour.

Either way I doubt Leclerc will have it all his own way and they will be nose to tail all year long. Would be nice to see Sainz get a first win.

[DanielSan]

exelero said:

Can’t wait to see. As I said before I kind of like them both. Carlos should’ve stayed at McLaren and Danny should’ve stayed at Renault. Magnus sem to Ferrari or Hulk to Ferrari and job is a good un’. I just don’t want Sainz to have his career destroyed by Ferrari

If he matches or beats LeClerc then his career only gains from that point onwards, even more so if Ferrari are suddenly seen to be hampering Sainz in order for LeClerc to be ahead.

[LukeBrown66]

I have no preference to any drivers in all honesty, there are some I like, Nando, Danny Ric c, Norris. Some I cant stand Lewis, Verstappen, Stroll and for sure Gazepin. But in hte main I try and catch the highlights now, the races send me to sleep.

But of course you cant have an opinion on here unless you watch every practice, qualifying and pay Now tv for every race, or you are not even a sort of fan. Bless x

[Jasandjules]

I expect it is going to a close battle. I do wonder if CLC will come out slightly on top by virtue of his rather awesome quali run but then again SAI is hardly a slouch under quali.

[Schermerhorn]

Depends on how many 1st lap incidents Charles Todt causes and gets away with.

Edit....I meant Charles Leclerc. Oops.

[TheDeuce]

Well it's certainly an interesting pairing. Also of interest... we don't yet know to what extent Ferrari have sorted their power problems just yet. It's perhaps worth noting that last year during the out season they came out ahead of time to declare the car a turd with insufficient power - this year however they remain silent, which could be a good sign!

I do believe Ferrari, after the embarrassment of 2019 are now finally over the idea of 'No1' drivers so at very least we have two good drivers to battle in one team. If the car is also more competitive, that could bring about all sorts of battles. It's unlikely they'll be able to gun for RB and Merc but a modest power increase would potentially have them all over McLaren, Renault, Aston. Yet another team jostling for position in that bunch would be excellent

Ferrari:

2019 - embarrassing/hilarious strategy and confusion
2020 - pointless farting around the midfield and Seb pointing the wrong way
2021 - hopefully they can do something, anything... (just don't cheat again, it's too soon).

[TwentyFive]

fesuvious said:

I'd bet on Sainz becoming a World Champ before LeClerc. I think he will show he is a more complete driver and has a broader base to develop from.

Sainz car control is better. The first race with changeable or wet conditions he will best LeC very easily.

It is an interesting prediction.

I am interested to know why you think Sainz has such an advantage in wet conditions as I haven't picked that one up?

I think they are both fairly equal in that regard. For example at the Turkish GP they qualified 13th and 14th but came through the field to finish 4th and 5th. Leclerc finishing higher but both drivers clearly showing their wet and changeable ability on the most tricky of days.

I think they are very close in most areas overall. Leclerc the more naturally gifted but Sainz able to use his F1 experience to good effect.

[Exige77]

LukeBrown66 said:

I have no preference to any drivers in all honesty, there are some I like, Nando, Danny Ric c, Norris. Some I cant stand Lewis, Verstappen, Stroll and for sure Gazepin. But in hte main I try and catch the highlights now, the races send me to sleep.

But of course you cant have an opinion on here unless you watch every practice, qualifying and pay Now tv for every race, or you are not even a sort of fan. Bless x

You poor little downtrodden thing but still take every opportunity to say how bad / boring it is then complain that posters complain about you constantly complaining

You couldn’t make it up.

[TheDeuce]

Exige77 said:

LukeBrown66 said:

I have no preference to any drivers in all honesty, there are some I like, Nando, Danny Ric c, Norris. Some I cant stand Lewis, Verstappen, Stroll and for sure Gazepin. But in hte main I try and catch the highlights now, the races send me to sleep.

But of course you cant have an opinion on here unless you watch every practice, qualifying and pay Now tv for every race, or you are not even a sort of fan. Bless x

You poor little downtrodden thing but still take every opportunity to say how bad / boring it is then complain that posters complain about you constantly complaining

You couldn’t make it up.

Would a person be welcomed in to a book club if they reviewed each book having only read the first and last page?

That's essentially what watching the highlights only is. Watching live is required to add context and build up to each moment of action.

If the last two seasons have appeared dull to those watching highlights, that is proof of just how lackluster the highlights only experience is!

As for not watching quali... A 'dull' quali session is actually quite rare these days imo.

[Deesee]

Leaving McLaren was a mistake imo, they will be going places in the next 2/3 seasons, they having been putting round pegs in round holes (Key & Seidel & Merc PU), Im not sure about the driver dynamics but thats for another thread I guess.

Sainz its quality brilliant race technician, manages tyres plays the %, has held his own vs Max, Hulk (& Lando)

Charl is possible the quickest driver over one lap on the grid, takes the risks in the race.. too many risks..

If Ferrari have a similar low drag car from last year, and the PU can get back 30HP, they will both in a shout for regular podiums, Sainz may struggle as he may be a few grid slots down on a Sunday, though he may well outscore him..

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

Leaving McLaren was a mistake imo, they will be going places in the next 2/3 seasons, they having been putting round pegs in round holes (Key & Seidel & Merc PU), Im not sure about the driver dynamics but thats for another thread I guess.

Sainz its quality brilliant race technician, manages tyres plays the %, has held his own vs Max, Hulk (& Lando)

Charl is possible the quickest driver over one lap on the grid, takes the risks in the race.. too many risks..

If Ferrari have a similar low drag car from last year, and the PU can get back 30HP, they will both in a shout for regular podiums, Sainz may struggle as he may be a few grid slots down on a Sunday, though he may well outscore him..

If the Ferrari is slippy and back up on power then perhaps at some circuits. But I honestly think Merc and RB have now taken aero design to a place that Ferrari don't have the talent to follow. I'd be surprised if even a significantly improved Ferrari can deny two of the top four cars the podium very often next season (on merit at least).

All speculation and opinion of course. We should get a better idea of how improved the Ferrari is soon enough in pre season. Regardless the relative performance, I'm certainly looking forward to this year's driver lineup

[resolve10]

i may have to borrow a towel to wipe the egg from my face at the end of 2021, but I predict LeClerc will comfortably outqualify and outrace Sainz over the season.

I'm not really a big fan of either, but LeClerc put a very poor Ferrari car on the podium twice last year (should have been 3 times) and comfortably outperformed a four time WDC. Sainz is a very good solid driver but I don't feel like he has much improvement left to do. LeClerc will get better with experience, the same way Verstappen has over the past couple of seasons.

Lets not forget as well, for all the comments about Sainz being a good points scorer and playing the percentages well, he did misjudge a gap and put his car in a wall on the opening lap last season...

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

Deesee said:

Leaving McLaren was a mistake imo, they will be going places in the next 2/3 seasons, they having been putting round pegs in round holes (Key & Seidel & Merc PU), Im not sure about the driver dynamics but thats for another thread I guess.

Sainz its quality brilliant race technician, manages tyres plays the %, has held his own vs Max, Hulk (& Lando)

Charl is possible the quickest driver over one lap on the grid, takes the risks in the race.. too many risks..

If Ferrari have a similar low drag car from last year, and the PU can get back 30HP, they will both in a shout for regular podiums, Sainz may struggle as he may be a few grid slots down on a Sunday, though he may well outscore him..

If the Ferrari is slippy and back up on power then perhaps at some circuits. But I honestly think Merc and RB have now taken aero design to a place that Ferrari don't have the talent to follow. I'd be surprised if even a significantly improved Ferrari can deny two of the top four cars the podium very often next season (on merit at least).

All speculation and opinion of course. We should get a better idea of how improved the Ferrari is soon enough in pre season. Regardless the relative performance, I'm certainly looking forward to this year's driver lineup

The bench testing is suggesting the power is back, the rear of the car around the floor is now heavily regulated, as are the tyres, I think we will be going some 2 seconds slower than 2020, low drag IMO will be the decider in the upper midfield this year, Ferrari and Renault should fight it out for P3 constructors, although Aston have used a lot of tokens on aero (to get the car ready for Seb ) so can't count them out either, FOM have had to slow these cars down, we can't keep having 50+g impacts..

Next year (hopefully), will be very interesting..

[TwentyFive]

fesuvious said:

TwentyFive said:

fesuvious said:

I'd bet on Sainz becoming a World Champ before LeClerc. I think he will show he is a more complete driver and has a broader base to develop from.

Sainz car control is better. The first race with changeable or wet conditions he will best LeC very easily.

It is an interesting prediction.

I am interested to know why you think Sainz has such an advantage in wet conditions as I haven't picked that one up?

I think they are both fairly equal in that regard. For example at the Turkish GP they qualified 13th and 14th but came through the field to finish 4th and 5th. Leclerc finishing higher but both drivers clearly showing their wet and changeable ability on the most tricky of days.

I think they are very close in most areas overall. Leclerc the more naturally gifted but Sainz able to use his F1 experience to good effect.

Sainz is the only driver I've seen wilfully break traction. There are elements to his driving that suggests he's amusing himself.

LeC is about to have a shock. And if the Ferrari package is good, Sainz I will bet will be right up there.

(I have nothing against LeC)

ETA I'm not talking about rotation when I refer to wilfully breaking traction

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

I can't say I have noticed that trait myself and also don't see how that alone means he will blow Leclerc away if correct. To my mind, wilfully breaking traction for anything other than aiding rotation is just giving away lap time, damaging to the tyre and eventually it will catch you out.

Sainz was generally one of the best at looking after his tyres over a stint last year which doesn't marry up to the breaking traction for fun theory either.

I think its also important to note that was possible behind the wheel of the McLaren for Sainz may not translate to the Ferrari package. I'd be inclined to bet Leclerc will have the upper hand, but it will be very close between the pair over the year. Much like Verstappen/Ricciardo were at Red Bull.