Engine Freeze Agreed
Discussion
Red Bull have shown that sometimes stamping your feet and having a sulk really does get the desired result. Autosport are reporting that the teams have agreed to the engine freeze.
Either the other teams are all very confident in their engines, or there’s been some other form of lubrication.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.autosport.com/f...
Either the other teams are all very confident in their engines, or there’s been some other form of lubrication.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.autosport.com/f...
Hmmmm. This doesn't sit well with me.
It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
Muzzer79 said:
Hmmmm. This doesn't sit well with me.
It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
Quite. It’s hardly everyone else’s fault that Marko’s burned his bridges. It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
F1 needs to decide if it’s fundamentally a prototype formula, or just another spec series but with expensive aero.
I too feel that the FIA agreed to Red Bull's demands to keep them racing. Yes, they could have held firm and called Red Bull's bluff. Maybe this would have forced them to take Renault PUs. On the other hand, the FIA probably realised that F1 is in financially dire straits with the possibility of an all-time low of just 3 PU makers. With the Red Bull/Honda PU in the mix too, perhaps it'd be viable to sell them to other teams in the future.
So with Ferrari having a dog of an engine last year how have they sold this to Ferrari who now can’t develop there engine any more or are we assuming they have caught up on there deficit from last year plus whatever progress Merc have made in this years off season.
Sounds like Ferrari are either very confident in there latest developments or they have somehow been persuaded to accept the lack in engine performance. I can’t believe Ferrari have accepted this.
Sounds like Ferrari are either very confident in there latest developments or they have somehow been persuaded to accept the lack in engine performance. I can’t believe Ferrari have accepted this.
MB140 said:
So with Ferrari having a dog of an engine last year how have they sold this to Ferrari who now can’t develop there engine any more or are we assuming they have caught up on there deficit from last year plus whatever progress Merc have made in this years off season.
Sounds like Ferrari are either very confident in there latest developments or they have somehow been persuaded to accept the lack in engine performance. I can’t believe Ferrari have accepted this.
That’s just it. They quite clearly have accepted it. So the question is why? Same for Renault. What has changed since last summer?Sounds like Ferrari are either very confident in there latest developments or they have somehow been persuaded to accept the lack in engine performance. I can’t believe Ferrari have accepted this.
Sandpit Steve said:
F1 needs to decide if it’s fundamentally a prototype formula, or just another spec series but with expensive aero.
Couldn't agree more. Engines are more interesting than aero, otherwise we'd all be into competition aerobatics.The hole that F1 now finds itself in with regards to engines is entirely of its own making. They should never have mandated such a complex architecture.
I think the F1 circus know we are in an unusual situation and its not the time to seek to crush an opponent as they
are part of the same big tent show.
I though Ferrari were bringing a revolutionary new engine this year. Triangle pistons that go side to side instead of up and down.
Will this fantasy tech be seen now?
are part of the same big tent show.
I though Ferrari were bringing a revolutionary new engine this year. Triangle pistons that go side to side instead of up and down.
Will this fantasy tech be seen now?
Muzzer79 said:
Hmmmm. This doesn't sit well with me.
It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
This is part of the F1 model. The teams, drivers, and F1M work together to an agreeable solution.It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
Mostly in the past Ferrari had it their way because the commercial model of F1 needs Ferrari first and foremost.
RebBull adds that compelling competition to keep the audience. F1 has to play to their needs. It makes business sense and F1 is a business first and foremost.
Sandpit Steve said:
Muzzer79 said:
Hmmmm. This doesn't sit well with me.
It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
Quite. It’s hardly everyone else’s fault that Marko’s burned his bridges. It's actually a reasonable idea in terms of cost-cutting but it also smacks of doing something so that Red Bull don't pull out, rather than doing something for the good of the sport.
A surprising number of F1 observers seem to think that is a valid reason.
I would have just made Red Bull take (perfectly good) engines from Renault......
F1 needs to decide if it’s fundamentally a prototype formula, or just another spec series but with expensive aero.
That comment never sat with me right, and the lack of questioning about that statement and the win was odd. Now this happens, and Ferrari are alright with it?
Odd. Very odd.
What a desperately impoverished history F1 would have if it had had engine freezes in the past . Ah well, we can all take huge comfort from the fact the saved millions will be blown on bloody aerodynamicists ...
Actually .it's so close to being a spec formula already they may as well get Dallara to knock out the whole field of cars - and they can stick in a shonky old NGTC in the back - it's not as if most of the viewing public would notice the difference is it ?
Actually .it's so close to being a spec formula already they may as well get Dallara to knock out the whole field of cars - and they can stick in a shonky old NGTC in the back - it's not as if most of the viewing public would notice the difference is it ?
I've been out of the F1 loop for a couple of weeks (fell a little ill, must be a bug going around...)
When exactly is this freeze from? I ask because Ferrari actually had, by all accounts, their new PU on track to be ready for last season. Sadly for them however the freeze last season came in to effect for whichever PU they used for race one, which was their 'cheat free' 2019 unit as the new 2020 unit simply wasn't ready in time.
It would seem to me on that basis, that careful wording regarding the final regs could probably enable them to use a PU they already have developed? If so it would be possible to keep both Ferrari and Red Bull happy.
When exactly is this freeze from? I ask because Ferrari actually had, by all accounts, their new PU on track to be ready for last season. Sadly for them however the freeze last season came in to effect for whichever PU they used for race one, which was their 'cheat free' 2019 unit as the new 2020 unit simply wasn't ready in time.
It would seem to me on that basis, that careful wording regarding the final regs could probably enable them to use a PU they already have developed? If so it would be possible to keep both Ferrari and Red Bull happy.
TheDeuce said:
I've been out of the F1 loop for a couple of weeks (fell a little ill, must be a bug going around...)
When exactly is this freeze from? I ask because Ferrari actually had, by all accounts, their new PU on track to be ready for last season. Sadly for them however the freeze last season came in to effect for whichever PU they used for race one, which was their 'cheat free' 2019 unit as the new 2020 unit simply wasn't ready in time.
It would seem to me on that basis, that careful wording regarding the final regs could probably enable them to use a PU they already have developed? If so it would be possible to keep both Ferrari and Red Bull happy.
The Deuce. glad to have you back.When exactly is this freeze from? I ask because Ferrari actually had, by all accounts, their new PU on track to be ready for last season. Sadly for them however the freeze last season came in to effect for whichever PU they used for race one, which was their 'cheat free' 2019 unit as the new 2020 unit simply wasn't ready in time.
It would seem to me on that basis, that careful wording regarding the final regs could probably enable them to use a PU they already have developed? If so it would be possible to keep both Ferrari and Red Bull happy.
Hope your fully recovered from that bug.
WickerBill said:
I can see this getting messy....
....what’s stopping teams arguing that if red bull start running away with it that they have a competitive aero advantage so want an aero freeze until others catch up?
Quite....what’s stopping teams arguing that if red bull start running away with it that they have a competitive aero advantage so want an aero freeze until others catch up?
And imagine Horner's comments if in 2010-2013, when Red Bull had that huge competitive aero advantage, the other teams had suggested an aero freeze then?
I seem to remember that when their advantage was pointed out, much like he points Mercedes' out now, his (and Vettel's) comments were that other teams should simply work harder.
Horner has been lobbying against hybrid V6's ever since they rocked up to testing in 2014 with a donkey in the back of the car. If he'd have been winning, I guarantee you wouldn't have been hearing him asking for engine freezes or V12's or all the other bulls
t he says to try and get what they want.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff