Silverstone to get sprint race.
Discussion
As someone who's bought a weekend ticket (first visit) and can't make it on the Friday, this is pretty disappointing news. I was looking forward to quali almost as much as the race to see the full potential of the cars, and with the race expected to be half an hour long I'll now be seeing a lot less action.
Paul_M3 said:
Blib said:
Ticket sales? There's something "important" on each of the three days.
True, it's good for tickets sales.Rubbish for the millions of people who watch on TV though, as only the unemployed will be watching Qualifying live.
TheDeuce said:
Paul_M3 said:
Blib said:
Ticket sales? There's something "important" on each of the three days.
True, it's good for tickets sales.Rubbish for the millions of people who watch on TV though, as only the unemployed will be watching Qualifying live.
Of course there will be exceptions, but I'm pretty sure that most people can't stop work for an hour and half and watch tv mid-way through a normal working day. Therefore a vast number of people will lose the ability to watch qualifying live.
It's not work preventing me from attending the Friday, my daughter will be at school and even though it's the last day of the year I won't be taking her out of school, so we'll now have to miss qualifying as I live too far away to make two trips.
Disappointing especially as the tickets were booked based on the expected running schedule.
Disappointing especially as the tickets were booked based on the expected running schedule.
Paul_M3 said:
I obviously wasn't being literal.
Of course there will be exceptions, but I'm pretty sure that most people can't stop work for an hour and half and watch tv mid-way through a normal working day. Therefore a vast number of people will lose the ability to watch qualifying live.
Dunno... They must calculate that actually enough people will be able to watch on the Friday to consider the new format, and testing that format. I appreciate that many will be in your position and are effectively robbed of watching quali, but on some level they must think enough people will watch on the friday to make it worthwhile. I suppose they might think those that can't watch quali will settle for watching the sprint race instead, so they won't lose a viewer as such...Of course there will be exceptions, but I'm pretty sure that most people can't stop work for an hour and half and watch tv mid-way through a normal working day. Therefore a vast number of people will lose the ability to watch qualifying live.
LordGrover said:
Aren't they trialling it, it's not set in stone yet.
Will grid positions for the sprint be determined by Friday qualifying, then Proper Race grid determined by Sprint Race?
That is what I read the quote as in the article.... friday qualifying is for the sprint race, and sprint race results determine GP grid.Will grid positions for the sprint be determined by Friday qualifying, then Proper Race grid determined by Sprint Race?
LordGrover said:
Aren't they trialling it, it's not set in stone yet.
Will grid positions for the sprint be determined by Friday qualifying, then Proper Race grid determined by Sprint Race?
Indeed - that's why I referred to them testing the idea Will grid positions for the sprint be determined by Friday qualifying, then Proper Race grid determined by Sprint Race?
And yes, that's how it's presently proposed that grid positions will be determined for both the sprint race and GP. All subject to change technically - but I can't really see any other it could work.
TheDeuce said:
Dunno... They must calculate that actually enough people will be able to watch on the Friday to consider the new format, and testing that format. I appreciate that many will be in your position and are effectively robbed of watching quali, but on some level they must think enough people will watch on the friday to make it worthwhile.
What is 'enough people'? They can't really calculate how many of the people who currently watch live on a Saturday will also be able to watch live on a Friday. What they will know is how many already watch the Friday practices, and therefore what the minimum number watching live on Friday is likely to be. This figure will certainly increase for a more important session, but who knows by how much. They can also assume that many who can't watch live will record it or watch it later. TheDeuce said:
I suppose they might think those that can't watch quali will settle for watching the sprint race instead, so they won't lose a viewer as such...
Well yes, I don't think anybody thinks that there will be a significant number of instances of somebody who currently watches Saturday qualifying but won't watch the Sprint race instead. It's highly unlikely to result in a loss of viewers on Saturday or Sunday, and will increase Friday viewers by a certain amount. But it will also result in many people now being unable to watch an important (and often enjoyable/exciting ) session live. Which was my point. Paul_M3 said:
TheDeuce said:
Dunno... They must calculate that actually enough people will be able to watch on the Friday to consider the new format, and testing that format. I appreciate that many will be in your position and are effectively robbed of watching quali, but on some level they must think enough people will watch on the friday to make it worthwhile.
What is 'enough people'? They can't really calculate how many of the people who currently watch live on a Saturday will also be able to watch live on a Friday. What they will know is how many already watch the Friday practices, and therefore what the minimum number watching live on Friday is likely to be. This figure will certainly increase for a more important session, but who knows by how much. They can also assume that many who can't watch live will record it or watch it later. TheDeuce said:
I suppose they might think those that can't watch quali will settle for watching the sprint race instead, so they won't lose a viewer as such...
Well yes, I don't think anybody thinks that there will be a significant number of instances of somebody who currently watches Saturday qualifying but won't watch the Sprint race instead. It's highly unlikely to result in a loss of viewers on Saturday or Sunday, and will increase Friday viewers by a certain amount. But it will also result in many people now being unable to watch an important (and often enjoyable/exciting ) session live. Which was my point. And you may not really lose anything, especially if they made the quali from friday FTV just ahead of the live sprint race on the Saturday. I understand that overall best would always be to watch all live!! But if the sprint race format turns out to be a winner then it could be seen as worth missing out on quali live for many people..?
Personally I'm just glad that they're now trialling these new ideas as opposed to the old way, where Bernie and co would have a brain wave and that would be that, stuck with whatever the latest change was until at least the next season if not the next concorde agreement.
TheDeuce said:
I suppose all of the above questions are part of the reason for doing it a trial.
Of course, they won't know until they try.TheDeuce said:
And you may not really lose anything, especially if they made the quali from friday FTV just ahead of the live sprint race on the Saturday. I understand that overall best would always be to watch all live!!
But if you have the ability to watch the sprint race live (i.e. Sky) then they don't need to make anything FTV. You've already got access to all the sessions. I personally want to watch it live so that a) I don't accidentally hear the result before watching it and b) Can follow the session using the live timing app which people have also paid money for.
TheDeuce said:
Personally I'm just glad that they're now trialling these new ideas as opposed to the old way, where Bernie and co would have a brain wave and that would be that, stuck with whatever the latest change was until at least the next season if not the next concorde agreement.
I agree, and having two races instead of one should (could?) make up for the loss of live qualifying to some people. I do think that anyone who expects the sprint race to be anything other than a short version of the main race is going to be disappointed though. If you're somewhere where overtaking is impossible in the main race, it won't be any easier in the sprint race. People aren't going to be doing anything crazy. In fact if anything they'll be more risk averse as it will affect the main race where the bulk of the points will be.Now if the sprint race rules were something crazy like: "All cars must run with an FIA provided 'aesthetic only' front and rear wing which provides zero downforce", THAT would be fun and different.
Paul_M3 said:
I agree, and having two races instead of one should (could?) make up for the loss of live qualifying to some people. I do think that anyone who expects the sprint race to be anything other than a short version of the main race is going to be disappointed though. If you're somewhere where overtaking is impossible in the main race, it won't be any easier in the sprint race. People aren't going to be doing anything crazy. In fact if anything they'll be more risk averse as it will affect the main race where the bulk of the points will be.
Now if the sprint race rules were something crazy like: "All cars must run with an FIA provided 'aesthetic only' front and rear wing which provides zero downforce", THAT would be fun and different.
Yes, I'd have a suspicion that it might be worse in reality, despite the nice sound of it. It's presumably going to be similar to a normal race, but where a team with a poorer car can get advantage from the undercut to "overtake" then it'll be the end of the race instead. And if it's used for the grid on the Sunday it'll favour the best cars at that circuit, so there will be less overtakes too, with little chance of a grid shakeup due to someone getting the timing wrong during quali/taking a risk to save a set of tyres etc.Now if the sprint race rules were something crazy like: "All cars must run with an FIA provided 'aesthetic only' front and rear wing which provides zero downforce", THAT would be fun and different.
NRS said:
Paul_M3 said:
I agree, and having two races instead of one should (could?) make up for the loss of live qualifying to some people. I do think that anyone who expects the sprint race to be anything other than a short version of the main race is going to be disappointed though. If you're somewhere where overtaking is impossible in the main race, it won't be any easier in the sprint race. People aren't going to be doing anything crazy. In fact if anything they'll be more risk averse as it will affect the main race where the bulk of the points will be.
Now if the sprint race rules were something crazy like: "All cars must run with an FIA provided 'aesthetic only' front and rear wing which provides zero downforce", THAT would be fun and different.
Yes, I'd have a suspicion that it might be worse in reality, despite the nice sound of it. It's presumably going to be similar to a normal race, but where a team with a poorer car can get advantage from the undercut to "overtake" then it'll be the end of the race instead. And if it's used for the grid on the Sunday it'll favour the best cars at that circuit, so there will be less overtakes too, with little chance of a grid shakeup due to someone getting the timing wrong during quali/taking a risk to save a set of tyres etc.Now if the sprint race rules were something crazy like: "All cars must run with an FIA provided 'aesthetic only' front and rear wing which provides zero downforce", THAT would be fun and different.
It’s a concept that ‘could’ be made to work, but needs much more radical thought. As a minimum give them a new PU for the three sprint races and take the fuel flow limit off, use the same grid for sprint and GP races.
Personally, when there’s not a pandemic on, I like it that I can happily do ‘life’ on Saturdays bar a 10 minute window to catch Q3, on days when life is more important than watching racing cars. The audience for spending three days in front of the telly 23 times a year once ‘life’ resumes, is not as big as Liberty think it is!
Sandpit Steve said:
Sadly agree. No-one is going to risk a pitstop in a short race so they’ll use harder tyres or ‘manage’ the softer ones, there’s no incentive to go for the gap because a failure to finish also screws your Sunday, they won’t be able to turn the engines up because they still have only three to last the whole season, etc etc.
It’s a concept that ‘could’ be made to work, but needs much more radical thought. As a minimum give them a new PU for the three sprint races and take the fuel flow limit off, use the same grid for sprint and GP races.
Personally, when there’s not a pandemic on, I like it that I can happily do ‘life’ on Saturdays bar a 10 minute window to catch Q3, on days when life is more important than watching racing cars. The audience for spending three days in front of the telly 23 times a year once ‘life’ resumes, is not as big as Liberty think it is!
Worth remembering that some of the above and other points/questions have been raised by the teams. It's still an evolving idea, and no doubt will continue to evolve after the initial three race trial - assuming it's not a complete flop.It’s a concept that ‘could’ be made to work, but needs much more radical thought. As a minimum give them a new PU for the three sprint races and take the fuel flow limit off, use the same grid for sprint and GP races.
Personally, when there’s not a pandemic on, I like it that I can happily do ‘life’ on Saturdays bar a 10 minute window to catch Q3, on days when life is more important than watching racing cars. The audience for spending three days in front of the telly 23 times a year once ‘life’ resumes, is not as big as Liberty think it is!
So I'd say that if the potential is there for it to be a good idea, there is a reasonable chance it'll end up that way. And initially, at least for the trial races, it's nearly always the case that any change from the norm shakes up at least one team and causes some form of drama..
Personally, I'm utterly against it. I think it's just a gimmick.
Do they get points for winning the Saturday race? How is this going to make the championship more exciting? If a car is dominant on a Sunday before, it's going to be dominant on the Saturday too, no amount of extra races will change that. Like what are the advantages of a sprint race? Does this not just increase the cost for the teams? Money that could be spent making the car potentially quicker but now has to be spent making parts last longer which kinda defeats the new cost saving strategy....
Do they get points for winning the Saturday race? How is this going to make the championship more exciting? If a car is dominant on a Sunday before, it's going to be dominant on the Saturday too, no amount of extra races will change that. Like what are the advantages of a sprint race? Does this not just increase the cost for the teams? Money that could be spent making the car potentially quicker but now has to be spent making parts last longer which kinda defeats the new cost saving strategy....
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