Pit Stop changes.
Discussion
Can anyone explain to me why this has arisen? I have not seen a number of pitstops with errors made and people being put a risk from unsecured wheels?
Just wondering now as clearly part of the excitement is knowing the teams are under pressure to get a pit stop in X seconds etc and to see if they mess it up (and often the driver too).
Just wondering now as clearly part of the excitement is knowing the teams are under pressure to get a pit stop in X seconds etc and to see if they mess it up (and often the driver too).
I believe it's come about because teams are relying more and more on sensor technology to release the car, rather than a bloke looking to make sure everything has been done and raising a lollipop.
There are sensors around the car that monitor when certain functions of the pitstop are complete - for example, wheel nuts being tight. Once the sensor confirms the action is complete, it feeds to the traffic light system in front of the driver.
This reduction in human reaction shortens the stop.
However, the FIA are concerned that reliance on automation carries risk of systems failing and cars being released too early - obviously dangerous.
So, they're mandating that sensors must be passive and the stop must include time for a human reaction to wheels on, jacks down, etc.
There are sensors around the car that monitor when certain functions of the pitstop are complete - for example, wheel nuts being tight. Once the sensor confirms the action is complete, it feeds to the traffic light system in front of the driver.
This reduction in human reaction shortens the stop.
However, the FIA are concerned that reliance on automation carries risk of systems failing and cars being released too early - obviously dangerous.
So, they're mandating that sensors must be passive and the stop must include time for a human reaction to wheels on, jacks down, etc.
Muzzer79 said:
However, the FIA are concerned that reliance on automation carries risk of systems failing and cars being released too early - obviously dangerous.
But this is my point, so far there has not been a terrible disaster from a failed system. Historically we have had issues with unsafe releases by a human being..... But surely until there is actually an issue the teams are simply innovating? Jasandjules said:
Muzzer79 said:
However, the FIA are concerned that reliance on automation carries risk of systems failing and cars being released too early - obviously dangerous.
But this is my point, so far there has not been a terrible disaster from a failed system. Historically we have had issues with unsafe releases by a human being..... But surely until there is actually an issue the teams are simply innovating? Jasandjules said:
Muzzer79 said:
However, the FIA are concerned that reliance on automation carries risk of systems failing and cars being released too early - obviously dangerous.
But this is my point, so far there has not been a terrible disaster from a failed system. Historically we have had issues with unsafe releases by a human being..... But surely until there is actually an issue the teams are simply innovating? RobGT81 said:
It's been raised because Toto is losing his mind about getting beat by Red Bull.
Seems to be being taken seriously now though. I'd guess Toto has been aware for a while but banked it to use when/if RB are a threat.In fairness, 'if' their kit/system is breaking rules, then at least a couple of times this season it potentially has swung a race result. I accept that's a big if at present though.
Siao said:
Jasandjules said:
Muzzer79 said:
However, the FIA are concerned that reliance on automation carries risk of systems failing and cars being released too early - obviously dangerous.
But this is my point, so far there has not been a terrible disaster from a failed system. Historically we have had issues with unsafe releases by a human being..... But surely until there is actually an issue the teams are simply innovating? Exige77 said:
sparta6 said:
RobGT81 said:
It's been raised because Toto is losing his mind about getting beat by Red Bull.
Wolff still running the FIA it seems 
The true motive behind this new rule is blatant, and Wolff is keeping pretty tight lipped.
Exige77 said:
sparta6 said:
RobGT81 said:
It's been raised because Toto is losing his mind about getting beat by Red Bull.
Wolff still running the FIA it seems I can see where the FIA is coming from I think. Reliance on automatic systems is hardly the menu for total safety. The cars are in a pit lane, with the team members and others working. The cars go at 60kph to 100kph. All sorts of possibilities. Someone suggested that nothing has happened yet, but that was the problem with Ratzenburgh and Senna's deaths. Engineers had raised concerns and submitted suggestions before their deaths. Maybe - I don't know of course - many thought that nothing had happened. Yet.
Ever stood in a 50mph limited road (not that the cars were only doing 50) with cars going past? Scary. I accept that these are top class drivers but Bottas span his car yesterday, and there's always Maz.
Derek Smith said:
Don't tell him to do that, Pike.
I can see where the FIA is coming from I think. Reliance on automatic systems is hardly the menu for total safety. The cars are in a pit lane, with the team members and others working. The cars go at 60kph to 100kph. All sorts of possibilities. Someone suggested that nothing has happened yet, but that was the problem with Ratzenburgh and Senna's deaths. Engineers had raised concerns and submitted suggestions before their deaths. Maybe - I don't know of course - many thought that nothing had happened. Yet.
Ever stood in a 50mph limited road (not that the cars were only doing 50) with cars going past? Scary. I accept that these are top class drivers but Bottas span his car yesterday, and there's always Maz.
Yes it's 100% about safety concerns.I can see where the FIA is coming from I think. Reliance on automatic systems is hardly the menu for total safety. The cars are in a pit lane, with the team members and others working. The cars go at 60kph to 100kph. All sorts of possibilities. Someone suggested that nothing has happened yet, but that was the problem with Ratzenburgh and Senna's deaths. Engineers had raised concerns and submitted suggestions before their deaths. Maybe - I don't know of course - many thought that nothing had happened. Yet.
Ever stood in a 50mph limited road (not that the cars were only doing 50) with cars going past? Scary. I accept that these are top class drivers but Bottas span his car yesterday, and there's always Maz.
That's why it's being introduced now, just as Wolff faces a sustainable challenge for the first time since 2014.
Gotsta be a coincidence
Jasandjules said:
sparta6 said:
RobGT81 said:
It's been raised because Toto is losing his mind about getting beat by Red Bull.
Wolff still running the FIA it seems Ross Brawn should put some manners on Wollf by sitting on him
Sandpit Steve said:
It sounds as if someone went to the FIA for clarification of how automated a pit stop can be.
So, either someone was thinking of introducing more automation to their stop, or they think someone else has been pushing the rules and wanted them clarified.
I posted my thoughts on the race thread. I wonder if one (or more) of the teams are doing some slightly dodgy predictive activation of sensors.So, either someone was thinking of introducing more automation to their stop, or they think someone else has been pushing the rules and wanted them clarified.
Eg they know a wheel nut takes 0.3 seconds to tighten, so the system sends the ok signal .1 or .2 seconds after the mechanic starts to tighten it.
That means the driver starts reacting a fraction of a second before the process is completed, so can, in effect, potentially half their reaction time.
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