Have Red Bull done a Ferrari 2019?
Discussion
If you've got F1 TV, there's an interesting video with Scarbs and Sam Collins that explain the improvements Honda have made.
May also be on the YewChewb - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56xphL0XdWg - I've not watched this version, so may not go into all the details
The short version - They've made some changes to the layout of the engines, made it smaller, bought the pistons closer together and invented a special coating for the cylinders.
May also be on the YewChewb - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56xphL0XdWg - I've not watched this version, so may not go into all the details
The short version - They've made some changes to the layout of the engines, made it smaller, bought the pistons closer together and invented a special coating for the cylinders.
Edited by mw88 on Saturday 26th June 18:50
Mercedes seem very determined to draw attention to Red Bull’s Honda engine but the Red Bull has clearly been running a lower downforce configuration.
Perhaps Mercedes have done a Ferrari 2020 and built a car which, in the absence of a significant power advantage, carries a tad too much downforce and drag?
Perhaps the Mercedes requires a higher minimum level of downforce to work the tyres, so they don’t have the option to run as skinny as Red Bull on the wings?
Perhaps Mercedes have done a Ferrari 2020 and built a car which, in the absence of a significant power advantage, carries a tad too much downforce and drag?
Perhaps the Mercedes requires a higher minimum level of downforce to work the tyres, so they don’t have the option to run as skinny as Red Bull on the wings?
No, Honda have been brilliant, however, even Red Bull knew there was unlocked aero potential in the car this year, and they’ve found the key at the right time. I think they’ll continue to out develop Merc over the year.
The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
PD9 said:
No, Honda have been brilliant, however, even Red Bull knew there was unlocked aero potential in the car this year, and they’ve found the key at the right time. I think they’ll continue to out develop Merc over the year.
The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
That's pretty much my views too.The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
And while the pundits and media are making a big deal about the extra speed = extra power thing... I think it's mostly just down to them finally making a good job of a very extreme rake design.
I'm sure the new PU is also an improvement, but their car was very quick last year too - just hamstrung by low speed corner unpredictable behaviour. Fixing that alone has focused a great deal of attention on how potent the car is elsewhere.
PD9 said:
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals.
I remember Toyota didn't go against Japanese culture/morals and fit a big bloody hinge between the turbo and restrictor in WRC.Reading blatant hope dressed up as analysts is beginning to get tedious this season.
And I think RB simply have the faster package, no tricks, no cheats just good engineering, The mental fanboi's though...
Edited by The Vambo on Saturday 26th June 22:55
mick987 said:
I think they are bending the rules on so many things. Tyre pressure, Bendy back wings and Automatic equipment for pit stops are just a few of them. Who knows what else they are doing suppose we will find out in years to come.
There's not one of the 10 teams on the grid who aren't bending the rules somewhere. PD9 said:
No, Honda have been brilliant, however, even Red Bull knew there was unlocked aero potential in the car this year, and they’ve found the key at the right time. I think they’ll continue to out develop Merc over the year.
The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
I know what you mewn, but Toyota cheated with the Celica rally car in the early 90s. So, maybe oerhaps Toyota bend the rules at that silverstone wec race and were excluded. But hey, I dont mknd, A part of F1 is finding loopholes and exploiting them...The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
williamp said:
PD9 said:
No, Honda have been brilliant, however, even Red Bull knew there was unlocked aero potential in the car this year, and they’ve found the key at the right time. I think they’ll continue to out develop Merc over the year.
The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
I know what you mewn, but Toyota cheated with the Celica rally car in the early 90s. So, maybe oerhaps Toyota bend the rules at that silverstone wec race and were excluded. But hey, I dont mknd, A part of F1 is finding loopholes and exploiting them...The only difference is this year (barring floor) is they’ve got off to a flyer from the get go rather than the usual half year catch-up and closing strong on the development front.
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
TheDeuce said:
There's an exception to every generalisation of course... Certainly Honda have a track record of responding/performing better when the relationship is good, and respectful. Also they do have a fantastic reputation as engine builders/developers and maintain supply deals worth billlions with thousand of customers, many who have dealt with them for decades. Their reputation is probably pretty valuable..
Remember they ran a second illegal fuel tank?This idea that Honda are above cheating is demonstrably stupid.
PD9 said:
Any suggestions to engine tampering go strongly against Japanese culture / morals. I don’t think Honda would do this and risk tarnishing their reputation, especially after everything they’ve put into the F1 project, not to mention the resources. It’s been a really long and hard struggle to get Honda back to the front of the grid.
yeah right. you might want to go back and have a look at Toyota rally history. Then have a look at Yamaha in Moto GP. Cheating is alive in any culture. The Vambo said:
TheDeuce said:
There's an exception to every generalisation of course... Certainly Honda have a track record of responding/performing better when the relationship is good, and respectful. Also they do have a fantastic reputation as engine builders/developers and maintain supply deals worth billlions with thousand of customers, many who have dealt with them for decades. Their reputation is probably pretty valuable..
Remember they ran a second illegal fuel tank?This idea that Honda are above cheating is demonstrably stupid.
Regards the fuel tank thing.. https://wtf1.com/post/the-forgotten-story-of-the-2... It's not at all clean cut how/why they had that tank, if BAR are to be believed there was no advantage - seems unlikely of course. But either way, would it have been a Honda decision in any way at all? Bar were Honda's customer at the time, albeit with Honda owning a minority share of the team, which was part of their 'partnership'. Wasn't it after that particular episode and some other controversies that Honda bought the remaining shares and actually acquired control of the team?
TheDeuce said:
The Vambo said:
TheDeuce said:
There's an exception to every generalisation of course... Certainly Honda have a track record of responding/performing better when the relationship is good, and respectful. Also they do have a fantastic reputation as engine builders/developers and maintain supply deals worth billlions with thousand of customers, many who have dealt with them for decades. Their reputation is probably pretty valuable..
Remember they ran a second illegal fuel tank?This idea that Honda are above cheating is demonstrably stupid.
The Vambo said:
TheDeuce said:
The Vambo said:
TheDeuce said:
There's an exception to every generalisation of course... Certainly Honda have a track record of responding/performing better when the relationship is good, and respectful. Also they do have a fantastic reputation as engine builders/developers and maintain supply deals worth billlions with thousand of customers, many who have dealt with them for decades. Their reputation is probably pretty valuable..
Remember they ran a second illegal fuel tank?This idea that Honda are above cheating is demonstrably stupid.
Thoughts on the whether it was Honda/BAR/Both that 'cheated'? I genuinely don't recall Honda being dragged in to that whole episode, it was the team.
Mr E said:
The Vambo said:
I remember Toyota didn't go against Japanese culture/morals and fit a big bloody hinge between the turbo and restrictor in WRC.
From memory, that “ingenious workaround” was Toyota Team Europe (who did the rally cars).Some sort of engine shenanigans is not totally unreasonable from our Japanese friends.
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