DVLA and Engine swaps - any experience?

[adamfraser]

Looking for a bit of advice.

Just bought an ex-showcar 1984 Ford Escort Cab, which has had an engine swap.

I've had a look on the DVLA site and there is plenty of info for engine number change (which you need to notify them about) and how to notify them of an increase on cylinder size.

The car initially had a 1600 n/a fitted - it now has the engine from an RS Turbo, which is the same, 1600cc but turbocharged.

So I take it that engineers reports etc still have to be carried out even thoug cubic capacity still remains the same?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[Ozzie Osmond]

On the basis of my own experience DVLA don't give a toss about engine number. If you tell them a new number they'll update the V5. Beyond that they just don't care.

[MJK 24]

They're cracking down in engine conversions in a big way now at the DVLA.

I have a Mk2 Scirocco that was originally 1,595cc carb petrol. Eight years ago, I fitted a 1,781cc injection petrol. Sent the logbook back with amended engine size and number. They promptly returned it without issue.

Fast forward seven years to 2010 and due to fuel prices, the 1,781 injection petrol is removed for 1,588cc of 54 horse power of diesel goodness. Again, logbook returned to the DVLA. After a few weeks, I began to wonder what was up as I had heard nothing. Panic really set in when my road tax reminder didn't turn up at the end of May and I was off the road...

I rang up the DVLA and they said that no manufacturer had ever made an engine of exactly 1,588cc so they wouldn't be issuing a logbook. I told them that Volkswagen Audi did and that I was pretty sure that was also the capacity of a Rover K series. Computer said no.

I got letter from Volkswagen UK verfying what I knew.

Next thing they wanted was either:

A) A receipt from a VAT registered garage for the sale and instalation for the engine with specific reference to it's capacity.
B) A inspection from VOSA confirming the work carried out.

I could understand this hassle if I was claiming the engine was sub 1,549cc to claim cheaper road tax but I was being completely honest.

Anyway, there was no receipt from a garage as I did the work myself with an engine bought from eBay for £60! Luckily I have a family member with a VAT registered garage and he provided me with a receipt.

By this time, the goalposts had moved and they insisted it went to VOSA anyway for an inspection. Being between a rock and a hard place, compliance was the only option. They went over with with a fine tooth comb and couldn't fault it I'm anyway. They certified the work and I sent my second piece of evidence away. By this stage, I was quite worried as to what would become of the car I'd owned since 1999 and have no plans to be parted from.

To cut a long story short, I got my V5 after jumping through hoops and I was back on the road. My experience of 2010 was somewhat more challenging that 2002, that's for sure! I don't think they want people swapping engines anymore to be honest - it's a beaurocracy nightmare these days.

I plan to retire the Scirocco from daily driver duties in 2015 when it'll be 30 years young at which point the diesel shall be turfed out for a 1,781cc supercharged unit. God only knows what challenges await me then...

[Aviz]

Ozzie Osmond said:

On the basis of my own experience DVLA don't give a toss about engine number. If you tell them a new number they'll update the V5. Beyond that they just don't care.

Same here.

[adamfraser]

Thanks for the replies.

What a bloody minefield... might just phone them and see what they say.

[Deluded]

MJK 24 said:

Stuff

I imagine the trouble you had was originally down to them not being able to verify the new engine on their database. Maybe also because of the change from petrol to diesel?

From my experiences, they usually just change the engine no/capacity and issue a new v5 with no questions asked.

[MJK 24]

Deluded said:

I imagine the trouble you had was originally down to them not being able to verify the new engine on their database. Maybe also because of the change from petrol to diesel?

From my experiences, they usually just change the engine no/capacity and issue a new v5 with no questions asked.

Have you changed an engine in the last 12 months or was it longer ago?

[Adz The Rat]

Just dont tell them, save yourself the hassle.

[busta]

As long as you are honest with the insurance company I wouldn't worry too much about the DVLA. It seems that it's only if you try to be honest that you get caught out.

[adamfraser]

Thats what I was thinking - sane cubic capacity, no need to say anything surely?

Insurance is obviously all going to be in order. Not going to run that risk!

[handbraketurn]

Old thread here, but wondered if people know what current status is.

If in scenario an engine failed and you replaced it with exactly the same capacity, standard engine from a car being broken, give or take the same mileage, same history (i.e. full service history) but obviously a different engine number.

Is your legal obligation to inform the DVLA?

What about legal obligation to disclose if you dispose of the car?

[anonymous-user]

My brother has just bought a mini shell with logbook and matching VIN numbers from eBay and is about to start building a VTEC mini. From a DVLA and MOT point of view what does he have to do once the car is completed?

[SuperPav]

I don't know what the actual legal obligation is (I suspect none to be honest?). It may cause issues if exporting, as I know in other countries they will check this sort of stuff on import/registration. I don't think in the UK it really matters too much if replaced like for like and just a different engine number...


When I last had to declare an engine change (300Tdi lump into a Series 2A, so na to Turbo, different capacity etc) I took it to the local garage and asked them to provide me with a letter - hand written note in this case - to say:

We can confirm that vehicle reg XXXXXXX has XXX engine in it, engine number XXXXXXX, on this date XXXX. Signed by garage.

Sent that to DVLA with engine change request, and just got a new V5c with the correct details on it.


They will ask for confirmation from a garage, but it's not much of an "engineers report", literally a note with the correct information on it.

[handbraketurn]

Found this thread after posting here.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

markymarkthree said:

ambuletz said:

sounds like nonsense to me. the only worst thing that can happen is if the new engine happened to be stolen. when you update it you might get a knock on the door.

Quite possibly nonsense and you can take a chance if you wish.
Personally I wouldn't and I would tell the DVLA.
This is what the DVLA say.

Changes you need to update
You must update your V5C if you change any of the following:
colour
engine
cylinder capacity (cc)
fuel type
chassis or bodyshell (replaced or modified)
seating capacity
weight of a large vehicle, eg goods vehicle or campervan

[handbraketurn]

Joey Deacon said:

My brother has just bought a mini shell with logbook and matching VIN numbers from eBay and is about to start building a VTEC mini. From a DVLA and MOT point of view what does he have to do once the car is completed?

That should be bonkers, funnily enough, it's a K20 VTEC and I've been struggling to get a replacement because so many people are buying them to fit into non Honda vehicles and turbo charge them.

[Jaiimez]

Okay, so to hijack an older thread, but how does this work with performance levels.

I have a 4 port RX8 and I'm looking to pick up a cat B 6 port with the plan to swap the engine and box into my 4 port shell.

Technically the displacement hasn't changed, but due to the port differences I gain an extra about 50 horsepower. (that's if I don't get it streetported)

[Psycho Warren]

Power levels are irrelevant. The new engine will have à different engine number which will need to be notified.

[buggalugs]

I would make sure insurance is correct but unless it’s something where people are going to check like a high value old Ford or something I’d save myself the hassle with the DVLA.

[Rotary Potato]

Jaiimez said:

Okay, so to hijack an older thread, but how does this work with performance levels.

I have a 4 port RX8 and I'm looking to pick up a cat B 6 port with the plan to swap the engine and box into my 4 port shell.

Technically the displacement hasn't changed, but due to the port differences I gain an extra about 50 horsepower. (that's if I don't get it streetported)

Assuming you're UK/Europe based, then the 4 port was claimed to have 197bhp and the 6 port was claimed to have 231bhp.

Unfortunately both those are a blatant lie by Mazda and nether made close to that.

My fully bridgeported 6 port made 196hp on a respected hub dyno here in the UK. On the same hub dyno, a standard 6 port makes about 165-170hp. Obviously those figures are at the hubs, and not at the flywheel. Unfortunately I don't have a comparable figure in my head for a standard 4 port.

Remember you'll need a lot more than just the engine and box. For starters, you'll want the 10k rpm clocks from the 6 port, the carbon fibre propshaft (unsure if the PPF differs from 4 port to 6 port), the rear diff, the ECU, etc. etc. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me can give you a full list.

Unless you have a compelling reason to do this, I'd just sell the 4 port car and buy a 6 port car. It'll be by far the cheapest and most reliable way of ending up with a working 6 port! For starters, does the CAT B car come with any guarantees about the compression of the engine? If not, there's another big bill potentially heading your way! That's not to say it can't be done ... just that it may be cheaper, easier & less stress to just buy a 6 port - they're not rare!