parking fines at work
Discussion
At work, they're looking to introduce new parking 'wardens' and so on. A copy of an email exchange is below:
ME:
it is my understanding that parking on private land is not
enforceable in law (or via a debt collection agency) - see many legal
and motoring websites for this - and so I cannot see that chasing
people for parking infractions is sensible
THEM:
The company is entitled to put in place reasonable measures to regulate parking on site, which is private land.
The parking scheme does not rely upon criminal law but is based upon contract law. Vehicle owners who drive, or permit their vehicles to be driven, onto University property will have received reasonable notice of the contractual conditions which apply. They are deemed to have agreed that the use of the vehicle within University property is based upon their acceptance of those conditions. Part of those conditions is the provision for payment of a financial penalty in the event of a breach of parking provisions.
The scheme is also governed by Company Traffic Regulations, which provide for the imposition of a financial penalty in the event of a breach of parking provisions in specified cases. Members of staff should be aware of Company regulations.
so, if I happen to park somewhere that is deemed inappropriate and I'm given a ticket, is that ticket enforceable? They plan to issue a letter, and then to pass it straight to a debt collection agency. Can they do this?
thoughts, opinions, legal views wanted.....
ta!
ME:
it is my understanding that parking on private land is not
enforceable in law (or via a debt collection agency) - see many legal
and motoring websites for this - and so I cannot see that chasing
people for parking infractions is sensible
THEM:
The company is entitled to put in place reasonable measures to regulate parking on site, which is private land.
The parking scheme does not rely upon criminal law but is based upon contract law. Vehicle owners who drive, or permit their vehicles to be driven, onto University property will have received reasonable notice of the contractual conditions which apply. They are deemed to have agreed that the use of the vehicle within University property is based upon their acceptance of those conditions. Part of those conditions is the provision for payment of a financial penalty in the event of a breach of parking provisions.
The scheme is also governed by Company Traffic Regulations, which provide for the imposition of a financial penalty in the event of a breach of parking provisions in specified cases. Members of staff should be aware of Company regulations.
so, if I happen to park somewhere that is deemed inappropriate and I'm given a ticket, is that ticket enforceable? They plan to issue a letter, and then to pass it straight to a debt collection agency. Can they do this?
thoughts, opinions, legal views wanted.....
ta!
xcentric said:
THEM:They are deemed to have agreed that the use of the vehicle within University property is based upon their acceptance of those conditions.
A contract cannot be created in this way. They need to show explicit acceptance, not implicit acceptance.By the same token - you could send them a bill every time you park there and point out that you are invoicing them for the privilege of viewing your car. This is clearly displayed in the side window of your car and their acceptance of your car being on their property implies acceptance of your conditions.
Are you an employee or student? Witholding degrees until all fines have been paid is an easy way to get you to cough up. If you are an employee do you really want to piss your employer off? If you don't pay them they could be just as entitled to ban your car from University property.
I think this may differ to your average parking in MacDonalds type of thing as there you could argue you didn't agree to the contract. If I were you I'd check you employment contract but in all likelihood it shouldn't be much to worry about - just don't park obviously like an ass!!
I think this may differ to your average parking in MacDonalds type of thing as there you could argue you didn't agree to the contract. If I were you I'd check you employment contract but in all likelihood it shouldn't be much to worry about - just don't park obviously like an ass!!
R11ysf said:
Are you an employee or student?
staffR11ysf said:
I think this may differ to your average parking in MacDonalds type of thing as there you could argue you didn't agree to the contract. If I were you I'd check you employment contract but in all likelihood it shouldn't be much to worry about - just don't park obviously like an ass!!
agreedMy issue is mostly that there are not enough spaces, so we all manage by squeezing into small gaps, and, commonly, blocking the rear (but not the front) of cars parked in a row - plenty of space for people to get out - yet they sometimes put notices on cars for those 'breaches' too. Should it get to a debate, I'd like to know my rights and how far I can push things and still be ok.
marshalla said:
xcentric said:
THEM:They are deemed to have agreed that the use of the vehicle within University property is based upon their acceptance of those conditions.
A contract cannot be created in this way. They need to show explicit acceptance, not implicit acceptance.Breadvan73 said:
You are incorrect. Many contracts are created by conduct, and car parking contracts are good examples of this. The problem with enforcement of these contracts is that the driver who parked the car must be identified. The car park owner does not have presently have recourse against the registered keeper of the car unless there is proof that the keeper is the driver. Any landowner is of course entitled to regulate access to its land. The law on this is likely to change later this year, with recourse against the vehicle keeper being possible without proof of driver identity.
So, if I am unable to identify the driver, any fine is, currently, unenforceable? Or can they simply say that they will charge me as the permit holder, and that be ok?I'm quite happy to pay legitimately incurred fines, but know that they like to ticket cars in actually ok places.....
At present, (leaving aside enforcement of public authority parking controls) , a landowner has to be able to prove that the person against whom it seeks to enforce a parking charge contracted to pay the charge. If the parking site is adequately signposted, the driver of a car may be held to have so contracted, so it's all down to proof of who was driving, such as a photograph of the driver.
The interesting part in all this is their wording.
Despite the fact that this sort of thing is almost always completely unenforceable because they require knowledge of who the driver was, not the registered keeper, and the number plate can only give them the registered keeper who is under no obligation to provide details of the driver - I only learnt another point about this recently. It is not permissible to include penalty clauses in contracts of this sort, and even if they could enforce a charge against you, it could only be for reasonable damages that they sustained due to your parking. Say if it was a pay-per-hour car park and you overstayed two hours, a £50 penalty would be disproportionate, unreasonable and not legal to levy against you, whatever the contract said. All you'd have to pay to settle any damages would be the two hours you overstayed.
At least, that's my understanding - the very fact that they use the word "penalty" makes their scheme totally unenforceable even if you come out holding up your hands saying you were the driver and you broke the rules.
...Anyway, it could be anyone who parked the car there, so the above is a bit irrelevant to actually worrying about it
Despite the fact that this sort of thing is almost always completely unenforceable because they require knowledge of who the driver was, not the registered keeper, and the number plate can only give them the registered keeper who is under no obligation to provide details of the driver - I only learnt another point about this recently. It is not permissible to include penalty clauses in contracts of this sort, and even if they could enforce a charge against you, it could only be for reasonable damages that they sustained due to your parking. Say if it was a pay-per-hour car park and you overstayed two hours, a £50 penalty would be disproportionate, unreasonable and not legal to levy against you, whatever the contract said. All you'd have to pay to settle any damages would be the two hours you overstayed.
At least, that's my understanding - the very fact that they use the word "penalty" makes their scheme totally unenforceable even if you come out holding up your hands saying you were the driver and you broke the rules.
...Anyway, it could be anyone who parked the car there, so the above is a bit irrelevant to actually worrying about it
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