BMW future - FWD 1-Series & Diesel M-Cars
Discussion
It seems according to Auto Express, BMW will be making the next 1-Series FWD using the next MINI platform - which they can only assume is because what's the point in producing an expensive RWD layout when the average 1-Series customer doesn't know or care which end is driven, was it something like 80% of customers??
Plus diesel will be utilised in the next generation of M-Series cars - which made me think of DXB 335d
TBH, i'm on the fence about both these - mainly as i will never buy either, i'll be saving for an M3 CSL E46... Just wanted to hear the PH response to this?
Plus diesel will be utilised in the next generation of M-Series cars - which made me think of DXB 335d
TBH, i'm on the fence about both these - mainly as i will never buy either, i'll be saving for an M3 CSL E46... Just wanted to hear the PH response to this?
Can see the point of making the 1 series FWD (they have a fine mini platform the right size so it makes sense to use it), assume as the countryman thing is 4x4 that there could also be 4x4 and even rwd options off that chassis anyway if they wanted to make more powerful versions.
For diesel M cars I can see that there would be a market for a 335d m sport with some extra BMW tuning, probably losing out to that tuning market already so makes business sense to bring some of that in house. Still expect core products to be petrol M3, M5 etc. but a twin turbo diesel X5dm for example would sell much better than a heavy v8 turbo petrol and you only have to look at how well the Alpina D3 etc. hold their value and sold to see that there is a market there for a more sporty diesel version for company car drivers.
For diesel M cars I can see that there would be a market for a 335d m sport with some extra BMW tuning, probably losing out to that tuning market already so makes business sense to bring some of that in house. Still expect core products to be petrol M3, M5 etc. but a twin turbo diesel X5dm for example would sell much better than a heavy v8 turbo petrol and you only have to look at how well the Alpina D3 etc. hold their value and sold to see that there is a market there for a more sporty diesel version for company car drivers.
StottyZr said:
Not a bad idea to me. With a remap the 4pot 123d makes 250hp+, imagine a 135d or 'M1D' 
6 pot with sequential turbo's pulling about 350hp and returning 40mpg. Yes please 
I don't get this... Why would you want such a powerful diesel... Have a diesel that's just powerful enough to do its job, then this will offset the 20MPG petrol toy sitting in your garage 6 pot with sequential turbo's pulling about 350hp and returning 40mpg. Yes please My mental block on this is that diesels sound crap...It's always interesting to see how companies deal with doing a U-turn from a marketing point of view. There is always a risk that it suggests that either they are now lying or their old marketing was lies and their punters were mugs. It was fun raking over old Honda advertising copy waxing lyrical about the "Type-R Philosophy" and comparing it to the FN2 brochure
Im willing to bet 90% of people who buy BMW's don't do so for the 'ultimate driving machine' experince. Most 1 series drivers probably do not know which wheels are even driven on their cars (snow videos from this year a classic example) and most people don't see driving as an enjoyable experience overall and therefore wont spent extra on petrol / do not care if their car is diesel or not.
A FWD 1 series makes sense to BMW if it saves them money and effort. I don't however thing M division will ever turn to diesel.
Apart from 130i and 1m, is the 1 series anything to shout about anyway?
A FWD 1 series makes sense to BMW if it saves them money and effort. I don't however thing M division will ever turn to diesel.
Apart from 130i and 1m, is the 1 series anything to shout about anyway?
t about.vescaegg said:
Im willing to bet 90% of people who buy BMW's don't do so for the 'ultimate driving machine' experince. Most 1 series drivers probably do not know which wheels are even driven on their cars (snow videos from this year a classic example) and most people don't see driving as an enjoyable experience overall and therefore wont spent extra on petrol / do not care if their car is diesel or not.
A FWD 1 series makes sense to BMW if it saves them money and effort. I don't however thing M division will ever turn to diesel.
Apart from 130i and 1m, is the 1 series anything to shout about anyway?
The 135 is supposed to be a lot of fun. Can imagine it would be!A FWD 1 series makes sense to BMW if it saves them money and effort. I don't however thing M division will ever turn to diesel.
Apart from 130i and 1m, is the 1 series anything to shout about anyway?
vescaegg said:
Im willing to bet 90% of people who buy BMW's don't do so for the 'ultimate driving machine' experince.
You have to be careful about that. A lot of people buy BMWs who wouldn't know a great drive from a hole in the ground, but what they do know is that people who can tell a great drive have tested their car and told them that it is one. So if BMW stop making good driver's cars, the punters might not all notice, but the road testers will and Clarkson will stand up on Top Gear and tell them all that BMW have lost the plot.otolith said:
It's always interesting to see how companies deal with doing a U-turn from a marketing point of view. There is always a risk that it suggests that either they are now lying or their old marketing was lies and their punters were mugs. It was fun raking over old Honda advertising copy waxing lyrical about the "Type-R Philosophy" and comparing it to the FN2 brochure
That image above is exactly what i thought about when i read the article. Every BMW has been RWD (or 4WD) but certainly not FWD (not any that i know of anyway!) and they've marketed that endlessly with the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' tag. But then the MINI is a good steer and i suppose times change especially when your core buyers are clueless lets be honest...Zod said:
Diesel M cars are not something I expect to see or want to see.
I think my 123d is a great car, but I agree. I also don't understand the fascination with turbocharging in that area of the market at the moment, the volumes are fairly low and they don't really need to do it for emissions regs and fleet averages. Perhaps they're reacting to the poor fuel economy of the M3 and the late M5, but they were particulary thirsty when compared alongside BMW's other normally aspirated engines, which seem to achieve good fuel economy along with relatively high specific output.
Fair enough if it was a whipcracking big specific output engine with a bit of lag and a strong top end, but IMHO light pressure, large capacity engines are an unnecessary dilution of the M brand.
So what's going wrong? M department don't want to settle for a slightly lower rev limit and specific output for the efficiency benefits of Valvetronic yet are happy to drop the rev limit and power band even further with a turbo? Perhaps BMW want to widen the margins/volumes and they're just not getting enough budget and are being restricted from designing their own engines to making more simple modifications to existing units...
Forgetting the driven wheels for a moment and the diesels I will be interested to how the rumoured 1.5 litre 3 cylinder turbo engines perform with the rumoured 150bhp.
3 pots have a lot more character than 4 cylinders in my opionion, are more gruff low down and sing better near the redline. They tend to me quite light too, as long as BMW don't add to much weight to try and make it refined.
3 pots have a lot more character than 4 cylinders in my opionion, are more gruff low down and sing better near the redline. They tend to me quite light too, as long as BMW don't add to much weight to try and make it refined.
The 1-series is a belting little car....in its market.
Compare it to a Golf/Peugeot/Jap-Crap/French Crap and it is a league ahead. The quality, the drive are at least a market ahead....It drives virtually identical to a 3-series (we used to have one of each). If the 3-series is a market leader, the 1-series can't be dire in a lesser market.
As for Diesel performance cars. Anyone who has driven a Jag-twin turbo, Vw V10, Audi 4.2, RR V8, or latest 30/35/40d BMW powered cars can see the appeal. Add in a trip to a tuner and you have a cracking performance car. A DMS tweaked 335d with 350bhp and 500+lb/ft torque will show an M3/RS4 a real fight whilst still delivering double the mpg.
Oil power will never take over....but will form a vital part of performance car offerings.
Compare it to a Golf/Peugeot/Jap-Crap/French Crap and it is a league ahead. The quality, the drive are at least a market ahead....It drives virtually identical to a 3-series (we used to have one of each). If the 3-series is a market leader, the 1-series can't be dire in a lesser market.
As for Diesel performance cars. Anyone who has driven a Jag-twin turbo, Vw V10, Audi 4.2, RR V8, or latest 30/35/40d BMW powered cars can see the appeal. Add in a trip to a tuner and you have a cracking performance car. A DMS tweaked 335d with 350bhp and 500+lb/ft torque will show an M3/RS4 a real fight whilst still delivering double the mpg.
Oil power will never take over....but will form a vital part of performance car offerings.
StottyZr said:
Not a bad idea to me. With a remap the 4pot 123d makes 250hp+, imagine a 135d or 'M1D' 6 pot with sequential turbo's pulling about 350hp and returning 40mpg. Yes please
Yes... You'll leave lots of people behind... as they are unable to see through the black smoke you are producing to commit to a safe overtake! 6 pot with sequential turbo's pulling about 350hp and returning 40mpg. Yes please Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff