80's Hot Hatches vs their modern-day contemporaries ?
Discussion
Apologies if it's been done before, but I was musing over a hypothetical few grand I don't have and wondering what I would get hot hatch wise, when I came to a realisation. 
All of the ones that have serious appeal were from the 80's. Astra GTE, RS Turbo, Pug 309 GTI and so on. I can't think of a hot hatch made today which I'd rather have over its 80's equivalent. I'm guessing that's because - to my mind at least - they look to be more raw and a much more involved experience.
I've not had the privilege of driving any of the ones in question, so I'd like to hear from people who have driven both on their opinions. Do you think that the lighter, less bulky hatches (albeit slower) are more fun than the modern ones?
All of the ones that have serious appeal were from the 80's. Astra GTE, RS Turbo, Pug 309 GTI and so on. I can't think of a hot hatch made today which I'd rather have over its 80's equivalent. I'm guessing that's because - to my mind at least - they look to be more raw and a much more involved experience.
I've not had the privilege of driving any of the ones in question, so I'd like to hear from people who have driven both on their opinions. Do you think that the lighter, less bulky hatches (albeit slower) are more fun than the modern ones?
Well, the old school lightweight hot hatches are able to be lighter because they would not pass modern day regs, so they are more lively to drive.
I've recently given up looking up looking for a Pug 1.9 205 GTi because the only good ones left are silly money and the cheaper ones are heaps. So I've bought a 2001 Clio Sport 172 (Phase 1), which seems to be somewhere between a proper old-style hot hatch and a modern, ~200 bhp but over weight, hatch. I like it, kinda, but I only got it for a bit of fun as I thought it would be interesting for my 35 miles (each way) cross country commute.
It's great fun to throw about but, compared to my e46 M3, it's quite hard work. When you're in the mood for a banzai rush to/from work it's hilarious - but as a day-to-day fast road tool it's not really up to it.
I imagine a modern hot hatch would be somewhere between a Clio 172 and a m3, neither one nor the other.
I'm not sure I've answered your question really
But FWIW that's my only relevant experience.
I've recently given up looking up looking for a Pug 1.9 205 GTi because the only good ones left are silly money and the cheaper ones are heaps. So I've bought a 2001 Clio Sport 172 (Phase 1), which seems to be somewhere between a proper old-style hot hatch and a modern, ~200 bhp but over weight, hatch. I like it, kinda, but I only got it for a bit of fun as I thought it would be interesting for my 35 miles (each way) cross country commute.
It's great fun to throw about but, compared to my e46 M3, it's quite hard work. When you're in the mood for a banzai rush to/from work it's hilarious - but as a day-to-day fast road tool it's not really up to it.
I imagine a modern hot hatch would be somewhere between a Clio 172 and a m3, neither one nor the other.
I'm not sure I've answered your question really
But FWIW that's my only relevant experience. iMac Hunt said:
Well, the old school lightweight hot hatches are able to be lighter because they would not pass modern day regs, so they are more lively to drive.
I've recently given up looking up looking for a Pug 1.9 205 GTi because the only good ones left are silly money and the cheaper ones are heaps. So I've bought a 2001 Clio Sport 172 (Phase 1), which seems to be somewhere between a proper old-style hot hatch and a modern, ~200 bhp but over weight, hatch. I like it, kinda, but I only got it for a bit of fun as I thought it would be interesting for my 35 miles (each way) cross country commute.
It's great fun to throw about but, compared to my e46 M3, it's quite hard work. When you're in the mood for a banzai rush to/from work it's hilarious - but as a day-to-day fast road tool it's not really up to it.
I imagine a modern hot hatch would be somewhere between a Clio 172 and a m3, neither one nor the other.
I'm not sure I've answered your question really But FWIW that's my only relevant experience.
I think u've done a good job. I've recently given up looking up looking for a Pug 1.9 205 GTi because the only good ones left are silly money and the cheaper ones are heaps. So I've bought a 2001 Clio Sport 172 (Phase 1), which seems to be somewhere between a proper old-style hot hatch and a modern, ~200 bhp but over weight, hatch. I like it, kinda, but I only got it for a bit of fun as I thought it would be interesting for my 35 miles (each way) cross country commute.
It's great fun to throw about but, compared to my e46 M3, it's quite hard work. When you're in the mood for a banzai rush to/from work it's hilarious - but as a day-to-day fast road tool it's not really up to it.
I imagine a modern hot hatch would be somewhere between a Clio 172 and a m3, neither one nor the other.
I'm not sure I've answered your question really
But FWIW that's my only relevant experience. If you like an old skool vibe then an older hot hatch is the way to go. But don't rule out newer hot hatches, because they can be incredibly engaging. Something like the Leon Cupra R with it's ferocious, old skool power delivery will make some of the old hot hatches look like they couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding.
Alternatively, if you want an old skool vibe (small, low power, lightweight) a first generation 106 GTI or a Saxo VTR or VTS would be suitable.
Alternatively, if you want an old skool vibe (small, low power, lightweight) a first generation 106 GTI or a Saxo VTR or VTS would be suitable.
vit4 said:
Apologies if it's been done before, but I was musing over a hypothetical few grand I don't have and wondering what I would get hot hatch wise, when I came to a realisation.
All of the ones that have serious appeal were from the 80's. Astra GTE, RS Turbo, Pug 309 GTI and so on. I can't think of a hot hatch made today which I'd rather have over its 80's equivalent. I'm guessing that's because - to my mind at least - they look to be more raw and a much more involved experience.
I've not had the privilege of driving any of the ones in question, so I'd like to hear from people who have driven both on their opinions. Do you think that the lighter, less bulky hatches (albeit slower) are more fun than the modern ones?
Think I'd rather take a rwd sports car over either 80's or newer hatches tbh.All of the ones that have serious appeal were from the 80's. Astra GTE, RS Turbo, Pug 309 GTI and so on. I can't think of a hot hatch made today which I'd rather have over its 80's equivalent. I'm guessing that's because - to my mind at least - they look to be more raw and a much more involved experience.
I've not had the privilege of driving any of the ones in question, so I'd like to hear from people who have driven both on their opinions. Do you think that the lighter, less bulky hatches (albeit slower) are more fun than the modern ones?
300bhp/ton said:
Think I'd rather take a rwd sports car over either 80's or newer hatches tbh.
Good thing he's not asking you then!In all seriousness, having been there and looked at owning RWD sports car, a hot hatch is a totally different ownership proposition. And hot hatches can provide bags of fun in a way that RWD sports cars maybe don't. Don't tell popular press that though, as it messes with that tired "RWD is best" argument.
Thing is all hot hatches from the 80' were flawed in one way or another - its just that time increases the tinge of the rose tinited spectacles.
For example -
Astra gte16v - rusty arches, crap chassis, bulkhead which could seperate,
RS Turbo - wheezy cvh with a turbo to mask its inefficiencies, nice seats but the rest of the interior was crap, and the brakes were rubbish too ( anyone remember how wet the boots and rear lights got after the 1st 4 years of wonership!)
Pug 205 - Lovely looking outside but step inside and you were in the worst sort of nailed together plastic rattly hell, 1st gear backlash so a bit rubbish in traffic, electrics were suspect, a gear shift that never seemed to be positively connected to the gearbox and lift off understeer that would bung you into a hedge so you had to drive it with that in the back of your mind all the time.
Golf GTI- rust, duff electrical sensors, ( but i acually really lie these)
R5GTT - made of the thinnest metal ever, fragile turbo/engine relationship
But as we all know in our minds they were very fast, handled brilliantly and we had some of the times of our lives in these cars - soby contrast you now have cars with inifnetly better build quality and reliability plus they are safer and less likely to catch you unawares - which is boring but re-assuring at the same time.
One thing I do like on modern cars that the hot hatches dont have is air con!!
For example -
Astra gte16v - rusty arches, crap chassis, bulkhead which could seperate,
RS Turbo - wheezy cvh with a turbo to mask its inefficiencies, nice seats but the rest of the interior was crap, and the brakes were rubbish too ( anyone remember how wet the boots and rear lights got after the 1st 4 years of wonership!)
Pug 205 - Lovely looking outside but step inside and you were in the worst sort of nailed together plastic rattly hell, 1st gear backlash so a bit rubbish in traffic, electrics were suspect, a gear shift that never seemed to be positively connected to the gearbox and lift off understeer that would bung you into a hedge so you had to drive it with that in the back of your mind all the time.
Golf GTI- rust, duff electrical sensors, ( but i acually really lie these)
R5GTT - made of the thinnest metal ever, fragile turbo/engine relationship
But as we all know in our minds they were very fast, handled brilliantly and we had some of the times of our lives in these cars - soby contrast you now have cars with inifnetly better build quality and reliability plus they are safer and less likely to catch you unawares - which is boring but re-assuring at the same time.
One thing I do like on modern cars that the hot hatches dont have is air con!!
I'm sure you could still get a golf mk2 for a half decent price? I had a mk2 8v GTI and replaced it with a 182. Although the golf wasn't particularly fast (especially compared to the Clio), it was hilarious fun to drive at sensible(ish) speeds and the handling was fantastic - not too much grip, nor too firm, but so playful and adjustable. And although the engine was a crude old beast, it did have character. I'm afraid the Clio, although faster and ultimately more capable, simply did not have the fun factor of the golf, and given that the Clio was supposedly one of the best of the breed, and the golf was eclipsed by the 205, I can only imagine the same holds true for most of the older stuff versus new....
Baryonyx said:
300bhp/ton said:
Think I'd rather take a rwd sports car over either 80's or newer hatches tbh.
Good thing he's not asking you then!In all seriousness, having been there and looked at owning RWD sports car, a hot hatch is a totally different ownership proposition. And hot hatches can provide bags of fun in a way that RWD sports cars maybe don't. Don't tell popular press that though, as it messes with that tired "RWD is best" argument.
FWD is ok and can be fun, but it can also be infuriating and ultimately less enjoyable.
As for the OP, it depends what they want, most modern cars, not just hatches will feel somewhat isolated from the driving experience and the road. Often fast and can fool you into thinking it's fun. But without being able to offer the same thrills as something less capable yet more raw.
Which is best is down to opinion. Personally I don't know of a FWD hatch that I'd rather drive or own over a DC2 ITR. Some 80's ones might be a bit more raw, but none as good. Same pretty much applies with modern ones too only maybe too ordinary to truly be an event.
300bhp/ton said:
It's ok, we all know your MX-5 was too much for you to handle
FWD is ok and can be fun, but it can also be infuriating and ultimately less enjoyable.
Well, I certainly never tailgated any TVR's in my MX5 FWD is ok and can be fun, but it can also be infuriating and ultimately less enjoyable.
RWD is okay and can be fun, but it can also be infuriating and ultimately less enjoyable.
But this is going nowhere, because your discussion of sports cars here is doing nothing to further the OP's wish to compare and discuss hot hatches.
For a modern day 80's hot hatch, try an Ibiza Cupra; Mk2 16v is pure Mk1 Golf GTI but with some creature comforts, Mk3 Cupra Turbo similar but smoother. Mk4 Cupra, basically 180hp in a Polo body, small enough to still feel fun.
We seem to forget that a 80's hot hatch will rust no different to any other model in the range, seem to remember regularly replacing exhausts, bushes & CV joints in Golf GTIs years ago.
We seem to forget that a 80's hot hatch will rust no different to any other model in the range, seem to remember regularly replacing exhausts, bushes & CV joints in Golf GTIs years ago.
Baryonyx said:
Well, I certainly never tailgated any TVR's in my MX5
RWD is okay and can be fun, but it can also be infuriating and ultimately less enjoyable.
But this is going nowhere, because your discussion of sports cars here is doing nothing to further the OP's wish to compare and discuss hot hatches.
Well it might, if they don't NEED a hatchback, then a good sports car can be just as practical, but often more fun and certainly a lot more special.RWD is okay and can be fun, but it can also be infuriating and ultimately less enjoyable.
But this is going nowhere, because your discussion of sports cars here is doing nothing to further the OP's wish to compare and discuss hot hatches.
kambites said:
Admittedly that's what I was thinking of too, but I'd assumed (perhaps incorrectly) there were others still in production.
I suppose depending on the definition of hatch then there where things like the Capri 2.8i which interestingly is something I'd personally take over a 205.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff