Problems with customer - mechanical work
Discussion
Starting this topic for another guy at the workshop. He is a first time user and has created a new logon but can't post due to a spamming issue where the forum has locked to new users making new posts. He is going to logon afterwards and reply to this topic with his original issue. I don't think this breaks the rules?
NiceCupofTea knows me personally. He's a good guy too. A friend of mine from another garage wants me to ask the following question to see what peoples opinions are on the situation. Personally I work alone and I'm posting for a guy I know down the road in another garage. This will be about a Mercedes Benz. My job is specialist MINI repairs and I do a lot of work on Saab's - hence I know NiceCupofTea (who has a Saab) - Right, so all that's out of the way then... sory guys but disclaimers are important these days. I don't really want to be assoiciated with this but want to help the guy out.
Here is the issue:
[i]"I want a bit of urgent help with a problem I'm having.
I replaced a pair of front coil springs on a Mercedes benz last year. I used new springs but not genuine Mercedes springs. Just cheaper aftermarket ones. I gave the customer the choice between expensive genuine springs and cheaper aftermarket ones. The customer wanted the cheaper springs.
The springs have snapped again. It might be a problem with the car but I'm not sure how much this matters?
Unfortunately the customer is a belligerent little ship of a man and I really don't want to help him.
He's not being nasty because I let him down and he is angry about the situation but because he has always been like that right from the first day I met him and he has never been any different. While he was paying me a very small amount of money - a discounted rate I never wanted to give him but was pushed into accepting - I was prepared to put up with his disgusting attitude but he hasn't booked in any of his cars for any work for about 10 months and didn't pay his final three invoices until they were about 6 months overdue. He owns a small fleet of delivery vehicles and a couple of personal cars so he could book his cars in for brake pads or something, the cars need regular maintenance as they do a lot of miles. I totally hate the guy because he has never been nice and after meeting him several times and talking on the phone nothing has ever changed. He's always been a git. He didn't pay his bills and I don't want to help him if I don't have to.
Now that he has a problem I'm afraid that his usual level of abusive disgusting behaviour is going to ratchet up a notch. He may even get violent.
The other thing is that I effectively took the work from another MOT garage (not my own) because the guy wanted it done cheaper and I offered a better deal. Although they passed the car on the re-test they tried to criticise my work and tell the customer that I haddn't done the job right. I'm wondering if the same MOT station is testing the car this year and if they have done this on purpose just to try and prove that the customer should have used them for the repair in the first place? Again, probably does not matter much.
What are my legal obligations to customers who I have carried out repairs for? Can they legally require me to fix something which could be described as a wearable item? Ordinarily I would sort this out without any delay because I feel a lot of love for the majority of my customers as they are all pleasant and reasonable. It’s just this one guy. I don’t want to fix this car if I don’t have to. What are my options?"[/i]
Here is the issue:
[i]"I want a bit of urgent help with a problem I'm having.
I replaced a pair of front coil springs on a Mercedes benz last year. I used new springs but not genuine Mercedes springs. Just cheaper aftermarket ones. I gave the customer the choice between expensive genuine springs and cheaper aftermarket ones. The customer wanted the cheaper springs.
The springs have snapped again. It might be a problem with the car but I'm not sure how much this matters?
Unfortunately the customer is a belligerent little ship of a man and I really don't want to help him.
He's not being nasty because I let him down and he is angry about the situation but because he has always been like that right from the first day I met him and he has never been any different. While he was paying me a very small amount of money - a discounted rate I never wanted to give him but was pushed into accepting - I was prepared to put up with his disgusting attitude but he hasn't booked in any of his cars for any work for about 10 months and didn't pay his final three invoices until they were about 6 months overdue. He owns a small fleet of delivery vehicles and a couple of personal cars so he could book his cars in for brake pads or something, the cars need regular maintenance as they do a lot of miles. I totally hate the guy because he has never been nice and after meeting him several times and talking on the phone nothing has ever changed. He's always been a git. He didn't pay his bills and I don't want to help him if I don't have to.
Now that he has a problem I'm afraid that his usual level of abusive disgusting behaviour is going to ratchet up a notch. He may even get violent.
The other thing is that I effectively took the work from another MOT garage (not my own) because the guy wanted it done cheaper and I offered a better deal. Although they passed the car on the re-test they tried to criticise my work and tell the customer that I haddn't done the job right. I'm wondering if the same MOT station is testing the car this year and if they have done this on purpose just to try and prove that the customer should have used them for the repair in the first place? Again, probably does not matter much.
What are my legal obligations to customers who I have carried out repairs for? Can they legally require me to fix something which could be described as a wearable item? Ordinarily I would sort this out without any delay because I feel a lot of love for the majority of my customers as they are all pleasant and reasonable. It’s just this one guy. I don’t want to fix this car if I don’t have to. What are my options?"[/i]
The customer will have a hard job proving the springs were defective or the workmanship shoddy. Or that there isn't an issue with the car, his driving, or the assault course he maybe drives it on. I think the customer's out on a limb if he can't establish fault or blame.
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Friday 3rd June 14:21
ejenner said:
NiceCupofTea knows me personally. He's a good guy too. A friend of mine from another garage wants me to ask the following question to see what peoples opinions are on the situation. Personally I work alone and I'm posting for a guy I know down the road in another garage. This will be about a Mercedes Benz. My job is specialist MINI repairs and I do a lot of work on Saab's - hence I know NiceCupofTea (who has a Saab) - Right, so all that's out of the way then... sory guys but disclaimers are important these days. I don't really want to be assoiciated with this but want to help the guy out.
Here is the issue:
[i]"I want a bit of urgent help with a problem I'm having.
I replaced a pair of front coil springs on a Mercedes benz last year. I used new springs but not genuine Mercedes springs. Just cheaper aftermarket ones. I gave the customer the choice between expensive genuine springs and cheaper aftermarket ones. The customer wanted the cheaper springs.
The springs have snapped again. It might be a problem with the car but I'm not sure how much this matters?
Unfortunately the customer is a belligerent little ship of a man and I really don't want to help him.
He's not being nasty because I let him down and he is angry about the situation but because he has always been like that right from the first day I met him and he has never been any different. While he was paying me a very small amount of money - a discounted rate I never wanted to give him but was pushed into accepting - I was prepared to put up with his disgusting attitude but he hasn't booked in any of his cars for any work for about 10 months and didn't pay his final three invoices until they were about 6 months overdue. He owns a small fleet of delivery vehicles and a couple of personal cars so he could book his cars in for brake pads or something, the cars need regular maintenance as they do a lot of miles. I totally hate the guy because he has never been nice and after meeting him several times and talking on the phone nothing has ever changed. He's always been a git. He didn't pay his bills and I don't want to help him if I don't have to.
Now that he has a problem I'm afraid that his usual level of abusive disgusting behaviour is going to ratchet up a notch. He may even get violent.
The other thing is that I effectively took the work from another MOT garage (not my own) because the guy wanted it done cheaper and I offered a better deal. Although they passed the car on the re-test they tried to criticise my work and tell the customer that I haddn't done the job right. I'm wondering if the same MOT station is testing the car this year and if they have done this on purpose just to try and prove that the customer should have used them for the repair in the first place? Again, probably does not matter much.
What are my legal obligations to customers who I have carried out repairs for? Can they legally require me to fix something which could be described as a wearable item? Ordinarily I would sort this out without any delay because I feel a lot of love for the majority of my customers as they are all pleasant and reasonable. It’s just this one guy. I don’t want to fix this car if I don’t have to. What are my options?"[/i]
How long after the repair did the springs snap?Here is the issue:
[i]"I want a bit of urgent help with a problem I'm having.
I replaced a pair of front coil springs on a Mercedes benz last year. I used new springs but not genuine Mercedes springs. Just cheaper aftermarket ones. I gave the customer the choice between expensive genuine springs and cheaper aftermarket ones. The customer wanted the cheaper springs.
The springs have snapped again. It might be a problem with the car but I'm not sure how much this matters?
Unfortunately the customer is a belligerent little ship of a man and I really don't want to help him.
He's not being nasty because I let him down and he is angry about the situation but because he has always been like that right from the first day I met him and he has never been any different. While he was paying me a very small amount of money - a discounted rate I never wanted to give him but was pushed into accepting - I was prepared to put up with his disgusting attitude but he hasn't booked in any of his cars for any work for about 10 months and didn't pay his final three invoices until they were about 6 months overdue. He owns a small fleet of delivery vehicles and a couple of personal cars so he could book his cars in for brake pads or something, the cars need regular maintenance as they do a lot of miles. I totally hate the guy because he has never been nice and after meeting him several times and talking on the phone nothing has ever changed. He's always been a git. He didn't pay his bills and I don't want to help him if I don't have to.
Now that he has a problem I'm afraid that his usual level of abusive disgusting behaviour is going to ratchet up a notch. He may even get violent.
The other thing is that I effectively took the work from another MOT garage (not my own) because the guy wanted it done cheaper and I offered a better deal. Although they passed the car on the re-test they tried to criticise my work and tell the customer that I haddn't done the job right. I'm wondering if the same MOT station is testing the car this year and if they have done this on purpose just to try and prove that the customer should have used them for the repair in the first place? Again, probably does not matter much.
What are my legal obligations to customers who I have carried out repairs for? Can they legally require me to fix something which could be described as a wearable item? Ordinarily I would sort this out without any delay because I feel a lot of love for the majority of my customers as they are all pleasant and reasonable. It’s just this one guy. I don’t want to fix this car if I don’t have to. What are my options?"[/i]
If it was outside the "reasonable" period in which he would have to fix it, then he is under no obligation to fix them FOC. And... if he doesn't want to serve the customer, stop offering him better deals! Over inflate the price by 150% and I'm sure he will pleasantly decline!
I'm posting now. I know some things about the business generally as we both do more or less the same job. I'm a MINI specialist but he will do mechancial repairs on any car. He also owns an MOT station which is handy for me because I don't have one.
What I was going to say though is that I thought consumer rights laws meant that the customer can legally expect the problem to be sorted out by the retailer, in this case the garage and not expect to be passed on to another firm, such as the manufacturer? Likewise, if the manufacturer is messing the retailer around and making it difficult for the retailer to return the goods isn't the retailer still obliged to help the customer anyway?
What about timescales. Anyone know anything about that? It has been almost 12 months but not quite. What is the legal warranty period for services provided?
What I was going to say though is that I thought consumer rights laws meant that the customer can legally expect the problem to be sorted out by the retailer, in this case the garage and not expect to be passed on to another firm, such as the manufacturer? Likewise, if the manufacturer is messing the retailer around and making it difficult for the retailer to return the goods isn't the retailer still obliged to help the customer anyway?
What about timescales. Anyone know anything about that? It has been almost 12 months but not quite. What is the legal warranty period for services provided?
lordlee said:
Send him the way of the spring manufacturers as they have most likely provided faulty goods.
I don't see why the customer should deal with the spring manufacturer. The mechanic who supplied and fitted the springs should deal with them, assuming there is a fault with them and they've not been abused or badly fitted.yeah if you supplied and fitted the springs, I'd say if they failed overly quickly (I think 6 months was mentioned), I think you're responsible for replacing. You can then claim the part cost (and maybe the repair) from the spring supplier?
if I had my springs replaced, then they snapped 6 months later, I'd be asking for them to be re-replaced as well
if I had my springs replaced, then they snapped 6 months later, I'd be asking for them to be re-replaced as well
You could try giving Consumer Direct a ring to find out their take on it:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/Useful...
I just used their services for a problem with a trader, and they gave pretty straightforward, helpful advice. They'll do the same for you as a trader, I think.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/Useful...
I just used their services for a problem with a trader, and they gave pretty straightforward, helpful advice. They'll do the same for you as a trader, I think.
5lab said:
yeah if you supplied and fitted the springs, I'd say if they failed overly quickly (I think 6 months was mentioned), I think you're responsible for replacing. You can then claim the part cost (and maybe the repair) from the spring supplier?
if I had my springs replaced, then they snapped 6 months later, I'd be asking for them to be re-replaced as well
6 months for snapped springs? What's not to say he's been Colin McCrae'ing it round a city centre full of mountainous speed bumps for 6 months! That would surely not be the fault of the fitting mechanic!!! Again, he could have been crosscountying in the bloody thing... if I had my springs replaced, then they snapped 6 months later, I'd be asking for them to be re-replaced as well
I would say the the Mechanic is pretty safe here - tough luck for the guy with snapped springs!
godfearinglayman said:
Hello. First post on here be gentle.
Thanks for all the help so far. Some very good replys to help me sort this problemo. Just reading now.
- So reasonable time to last is legally defined as 6-months? I did the job so it could pass the MOT last year - very nearly 12 months ago now.
The MOT tester causing all the problems is at a different garage - he probably does it cheaper than me so this is why the guy goes there instead! I have my own MOT station so I know what will pass and what will fail. After I'd done the job I was satisified with the work. I'm just not used to having to deal with problems like this. They never normally come up.
- People are mostly saying tough luck to the guy?
- Should I offer to give him the receipt for the springs and then he can go and get a replacement set? Or might the retailer see that as me having broken the contract and refuse to help anyone other than myself?
- Anyone got any recomendations in case he starts getting particularly agressive or violent considering his resting point is at such a corrosive nasty level to begin with!
Trying to look at it from the point of view of the customer (as that is the way that most advice is given)...Thanks for all the help so far. Some very good replys to help me sort this problemo. Just reading now.
- So reasonable time to last is legally defined as 6-months? I did the job so it could pass the MOT last year - very nearly 12 months ago now.
The MOT tester causing all the problems is at a different garage - he probably does it cheaper than me so this is why the guy goes there instead! I have my own MOT station so I know what will pass and what will fail. After I'd done the job I was satisified with the work. I'm just not used to having to deal with problems like this. They never normally come up.
- People are mostly saying tough luck to the guy?
- Should I offer to give him the receipt for the springs and then he can go and get a replacement set? Or might the retailer see that as me having broken the contract and refuse to help anyone other than myself?
- Anyone got any recomendations in case he starts getting particularly agressive or violent considering his resting point is at such a corrosive nasty level to begin with!
I'd say that being you sold him the springs, it would be your responsibility to organise repair or replacement. Obviously you can't repair springs, so replacement.
However, it depends what constitutes a 'reasonable length of time' in regard to the sale of goods act. The sale of goods act says that "Goods should be defect free and fit for purpose for a reasonable length of time". Now, often what is considered 'a reasonable length of time' in statute law is quite surprising. For example, White goods and home electronic equipment is usually considered to last for 6 (yes 6!) years. Luckily most sellers tend to get away with 1 year because consumers aren't aware of what is considered a reasonable length of time in the SOGA.
So, if one is to think logically about this, how long should a new spring last for when fitted to a car? I've had cars that haven been 15 years old and have never had a broken spring... then again people also had cars that broke springs after 5 years. People might argue though that it is unreasonable for a spring to break after only 5 years.
On that basis I'd say you might well have to supply new springs, especially if he starts talking about legal action and stuff like that. As said though, I'm not an expert beyond having received this type of advice (and having previously sold TV's and DVD players for a living). I'd call Consumer Direct or someone similar to see what they advise. I understand this guy is a bit of a pratt, but ultimately you have to treat him as if you would any other customer. If it were me, I'd probably buy a set of OEM springs, fit them at the customer's cost (but not charge for the springs) and then if he returns in another year with another broken set, point out that you fitted OEM springs and he must have done something to cause their damage. At the moment you can't really prove that he did anything to damage the springs...
Dunno, its a difficult one and I have to admit I've never really tried to think about this sort of problem from the side of the business before.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff