What To Get After DC2? - M3? S2000? Boxster S? Elise? VX220?
Discussion
Hi Guys,
i've had my DC2 for nearly 2 years now. the ownership has been great, the only reason i'm selling it is because it's getting on a bit, it's coming up to 150,000 miles and i think it's time to move on.
i've got about £12,000 to spend on my next car.
the next car needs to be an out-right performance car, something that is involving to drive but still has an element of practicality to it. (i.e it needs to be something i can drive daily, i'm not too bothered about how many seats it has or how big the boot space is)
i've been looking around and the cars i'm considering are:
>E46 M3
>S2000
>Porsche Boxster S(986)
>Elise S2 111S
>Vauxhall VX200 Turbo
if you were in my position, what car would you get and why?
thanks in advance
i've had my DC2 for nearly 2 years now. the ownership has been great, the only reason i'm selling it is because it's getting on a bit, it's coming up to 150,000 miles and i think it's time to move on.
i've got about £12,000 to spend on my next car.
the next car needs to be an out-right performance car, something that is involving to drive but still has an element of practicality to it. (i.e it needs to be something i can drive daily, i'm not too bothered about how many seats it has or how big the boot space is)
i've been looking around and the cars i'm considering are:
>E46 M3
>S2000
>Porsche Boxster S(986)
>Elise S2 111S
>Vauxhall VX200 Turbo
if you were in my position, what car would you get and why?
thanks in advance
My own personal thoughts:
>E46 M3: To me this didn't feel special enough unless you were really hooning. A wolf is sheep's clothing. A very practical car that's fast though, it's just that it ended there for me and I wasn't tempted, especially for the premium they command over a 330ci.
>S2000: Beautifully built, but just not enough of a driver's car for me. Not enough feedback and involvement. Also not that good a driving position. I love the engine though, and it's one of the best gearchanges I've ever used in a road car, if not the best.
>Porsche Boxster S(986): wonderful car, but I found it hard to test drive because I found that the independent dealers I visited were all complete nobbers. Well worth considering though. Personally I'd buy from an OPC or privately.
>Elise S2 111S: I bought one of these five years ago and still have it. One of my favourite cars of all time from a driving point of view that's still useable on the road. No, in fact my favourite everyday driver's car full stop. A bit of a pain on the motorway though because of the noise.
>Vauxhall VX200 Turbo: As above with more weight, servo brakes, less precision but a lot more poke and mega tuning capability. Depreciation is your friend too compared with the Lotus.
HTH - just my thoughts though. I got the Elise, but ended up with a second car for motorways and carrying stuff about.
>E46 M3: To me this didn't feel special enough unless you were really hooning. A wolf is sheep's clothing. A very practical car that's fast though, it's just that it ended there for me and I wasn't tempted, especially for the premium they command over a 330ci.
>S2000: Beautifully built, but just not enough of a driver's car for me. Not enough feedback and involvement. Also not that good a driving position. I love the engine though, and it's one of the best gearchanges I've ever used in a road car, if not the best.
>Porsche Boxster S(986): wonderful car, but I found it hard to test drive because I found that the independent dealers I visited were all complete nobbers. Well worth considering though. Personally I'd buy from an OPC or privately.
>Elise S2 111S: I bought one of these five years ago and still have it. One of my favourite cars of all time from a driving point of view that's still useable on the road. No, in fact my favourite everyday driver's car full stop. A bit of a pain on the motorway though because of the noise.
>Vauxhall VX200 Turbo: As above with more weight, servo brakes, less precision but a lot more poke and mega tuning capability. Depreciation is your friend too compared with the Lotus.
HTH - just my thoughts though. I got the Elise, but ended up with a second car for motorways and carrying stuff about.
I opted for the S2 111S and absolutely love it - Mine is a daily drive 
However the VX220 Turbo is an interesting proposition! The VX is usually cheaper to insure than the Elise and there are quite a few in the classifieds that have had Stage 1-4 upgrades, resulting in anywhere between 220-280bhp (Think of the power-to-weight ratio) ... Cheap power!
However the VX220 Turbo is an interesting proposition! The VX is usually cheaper to insure than the Elise and there are quite a few in the classifieds that have had Stage 1-4 upgrades, resulting in anywhere between 220-280bhp (Think of the power-to-weight ratio) ... Cheap power!superman84 said:
The M3 without doubt. Fast, fun, reliable, looks good, sounds goods. Practical and very comfortable.
Or the S2000 if it had to be a two seater sports car
The Elise is too compromised (build quality/practicality/reliability/small engine/relatively slow/looks cheap) to recommend.
Build quality? It's not that bad - The S2 is certainly a step-up from the S1. Or the S2000 if it had to be a two seater sports car
The Elise is too compromised (build quality/practicality/reliability/small engine/relatively slow/looks cheap) to recommend.
Practicality? Well, you can fit enough clothes in the boot for a weekend away for two or food shopping for a week. It definitely helps if you played Tetris when you were young!
Reliability? My S2 has been more reliable than any of my other cars, including my S1. Head gasket failure is a possibility, but as long as you ensure the car is up to temperature before a spirited drive, and you let it cool down properly before switching the engine off, you should reduce the chance of HGF. If it does go, it's £500 to sort!
Small engine? Yeah, 1.8L ... The S2 111S has a 160bhp, which equates to 193bhp/ton ... Also, 40mpg is achievable
Relatively slow? 0-60mph in 5.1 seconds and 0-100mph in 14 seconds ... Not too shabby?
Looks cheap? This is down to personal preference. In it's simplest form, it's a plastic car. However it does get lots of positive remarks from passers by
Still, the VX220 with stage 1-4 tuning would be much, much quicker! The M3 is there for when you're older and need some additional space.
From your list, I have owned (and used as my 'everyday' car for 2 years) an S2 Elise (but mine was a later Yota engined one) and currently run a Boxster S.
There's no issue with using the Elise every day, unless you regularly use the motorway in all weathers. In wind and rain, on a motorway, an Elise is major pain. The wind blows it around, it aquaplanes constantly, it will deafen you and every 3rd vehicle will fail to see you.
I couldn't recommend the Boxster S highly enough. It's a fabulous bit of kit, and you could argue that it has all the power you'd ever need for the road.
I thought about an E46 M3 myself, but it's one of the few cars with a worse image than the Boxster - at least in the area where I live, where they are all driven by 'freelance pharmaceutical suppliers'. Awesome bit of kit though.
Personally, I couldn't live with the S2000's engine. I know it's a mechanical tour de force, but having to rag it to the red line in order to get any performance from it would be wearisome I feel.
VX220 Turbo is a good call, but you might find yourself constantly telling people that it's 'just as good as Lotus, if not better'. This may bother you, it may not.
I'm biased, but I'd go for the 986S. plenty of good ones for your budget, and you may even get into a 987 (though possibly only a 2.7). Just be aware that the 986S shares lots of parts with the 996 Carrera, and as such, is not a cheap car to run.
There's no issue with using the Elise every day, unless you regularly use the motorway in all weathers. In wind and rain, on a motorway, an Elise is major pain. The wind blows it around, it aquaplanes constantly, it will deafen you and every 3rd vehicle will fail to see you.
I couldn't recommend the Boxster S highly enough. It's a fabulous bit of kit, and you could argue that it has all the power you'd ever need for the road.
I thought about an E46 M3 myself, but it's one of the few cars with a worse image than the Boxster - at least in the area where I live, where they are all driven by 'freelance pharmaceutical suppliers'. Awesome bit of kit though.
Personally, I couldn't live with the S2000's engine. I know it's a mechanical tour de force, but having to rag it to the red line in order to get any performance from it would be wearisome I feel.
VX220 Turbo is a good call, but you might find yourself constantly telling people that it's 'just as good as Lotus, if not better'. This may bother you, it may not.
I'm biased, but I'd go for the 986S. plenty of good ones for your budget, and you may even get into a 987 (though possibly only a 2.7). Just be aware that the 986S shares lots of parts with the 996 Carrera, and as such, is not a cheap car to run.
Edited by TTwiggy on Friday 10th June 15:40
The official 0-60 is 4.8 on the S2 111S I believe. In fairness, most of the Elise's acceleration figures are because of the rear engined layout and the vast grip that gives (oh, and the ability to do 60 in 2nd gear!). Once on a roll, my 111S was a little slower than my Z4 Coupé from 30-70 (the Z4 consistently recorded 4.7, whereas the Elise was always high 4s and low 5s). However, the suspension is tuned so well that the speed it can carry down a bumpy B road is quite extraordinary, and that combined with the power is more than adequate on the public road for most people.
The Elise's trump card is the ride, handling and feedback, which are in a totally different league to the other cars mentioned. There's something special about sitting in the middle of such a small car as well - it makes the feedback from front and rear more balanced.
Unlike most people would expect, mine has never leaked, has been pretty reliable, delivers over 40mpg, swallows quite a lot of luggage (I've been on holiday in mine for two weeks with two of us - you can stuff things all down the sides of the boot in the wheelarches), and with that phenomenal ride and handling and good seats is actually very comfortable. The humming noise at 70mph and lack of roof rack are the only reasons I bought another car for everyday.
The Elise's trump card is the ride, handling and feedback, which are in a totally different league to the other cars mentioned. There's something special about sitting in the middle of such a small car as well - it makes the feedback from front and rear more balanced.
Unlike most people would expect, mine has never leaked, has been pretty reliable, delivers over 40mpg, swallows quite a lot of luggage (I've been on holiday in mine for two weeks with two of us - you can stuff things all down the sides of the boot in the wheelarches), and with that phenomenal ride and handling and good seats is actually very comfortable. The humming noise at 70mph and lack of roof rack are the only reasons I bought another car for everyday.
I'd say a VX220 Turbo would be a good call.
In fact, this one: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2909921.htm would be perfect.
-hint hint-
In fact, this one: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2909921.htm would be perfect.
-hint hint-
I've had my DC2 ITR for 5 years nearly, still love driving it. I did however fancy something a bit different & I've gone down the VX220 route, picking up a nice red 53 plate with 40k miles on Sunday.
I'm keeping the ITR and am going to run them both, so have opted for the NA version rather than the turbo that you are looking at.
I'll try and let you know what I think of it once I get some miles under my belt
I'm keeping the ITR and am going to run them both, so have opted for the NA version rather than the turbo that you are looking at.
I'll try and let you know what I think of it once I get some miles under my belt
Has to be the M3 for the best mix of performance and practicality. Can also get 30mpg on a run, which is good for a 3.2 straight six. I would go for something like this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2862983.htm
I personally would avoid the SMG - you have to be prepared for big bills and remember that these cars were first built in 2001 so the gearbox is not as advanced as some of the more modern systems.
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2862983.htm
I personally would avoid the SMG - you have to be prepared for big bills and remember that these cars were first built in 2001 so the gearbox is not as advanced as some of the more modern systems.
S2000. It might not be the best car of the crop. But it's natural progression from the DC2.
Bulletproof and quite often regarded as a more practical grown up Elise. M3 is great but it's a bigger 5 seater saloon car, nit really fair to be compared to the other 2 seater proper sport cars.
Bulletproof and quite often regarded as a more practical grown up Elise. M3 is great but it's a bigger 5 seater saloon car, nit really fair to be compared to the other 2 seater proper sport cars.
thanks for the input guys, it really is very much appreciated!
the cars i've been looking at the most are the M3 and the Boxster S.
i've always loved the M3, i've test driven an M3 CS about 4months back, the car didn't feel all the special when driving about at normal speeds but as soon as you push it hard into a corner it really does come alive, the straight line speed is immense but i can imagine that feeling somewhat "normal" after a few months of ownership. the M3 engine is a masterpeice, it sounds incredible when on a charge and it revs to nearly 9000rpm, it really does add to the experience. we all know it handles well but can it really considered as a drivers car when it weighs 1500kg~?
i've been into an independent porsche dealer and he had a lovely 2004 Boxster S, there was only one person working the last time i went and he looked like he was closing a deal with another customer, so i didn't get a chance to speak to him about a test-drive. i've driven a 986 Boxster 2.5 about 3 years ago, i remember it being an incredible piece of kit, i really need to drive a 3.2 now so i can compare it to the other performance cars. i've read quite a bit into the boxster's and as said in this thread, it shares quite a few of it's parts with the 996 carrera, it's very expensive to run/maintain a considerable amount more than the m3, the question is, is it worth the extra maintenance cost over?
s2000 is natural progression from a dc2, i agree. i test drove one about 6 months ago, it was a 2006, the one with all of the suspension revisions. the car felt tight but it felt very slow low down in the torque, considerably slower than my integra. in reality it was probably the same but it felt so much slower due to the car feeling so much more modern. it was a hoot to drive quicly into a corner, the rear is definitely lively, but controllable from what i noticed. the pull was quite strong and the gearbox was un-touchable. the steering was very direct and responive but the the feedback was non-existant. £10-12,000 for a honda that lacks feedback, is this something that can be compared to an M3/Boxster/Elise/VX?
the elise is a car i've always wanted to own, an out-right drivers car that will be probably the most fun you can have under 13k? reliability issues (head gasket, leaking roof, electrics, shocks)and lack of practicality...possibly a deal breaker! (same goes for the vx)
the cars i've been looking at the most are the M3 and the Boxster S.
i've always loved the M3, i've test driven an M3 CS about 4months back, the car didn't feel all the special when driving about at normal speeds but as soon as you push it hard into a corner it really does come alive, the straight line speed is immense but i can imagine that feeling somewhat "normal" after a few months of ownership. the M3 engine is a masterpeice, it sounds incredible when on a charge and it revs to nearly 9000rpm, it really does add to the experience. we all know it handles well but can it really considered as a drivers car when it weighs 1500kg~?
i've been into an independent porsche dealer and he had a lovely 2004 Boxster S, there was only one person working the last time i went and he looked like he was closing a deal with another customer, so i didn't get a chance to speak to him about a test-drive. i've driven a 986 Boxster 2.5 about 3 years ago, i remember it being an incredible piece of kit, i really need to drive a 3.2 now so i can compare it to the other performance cars. i've read quite a bit into the boxster's and as said in this thread, it shares quite a few of it's parts with the 996 carrera, it's very expensive to run/maintain a considerable amount more than the m3, the question is, is it worth the extra maintenance cost over?
s2000 is natural progression from a dc2, i agree. i test drove one about 6 months ago, it was a 2006, the one with all of the suspension revisions. the car felt tight but it felt very slow low down in the torque, considerably slower than my integra. in reality it was probably the same but it felt so much slower due to the car feeling so much more modern. it was a hoot to drive quicly into a corner, the rear is definitely lively, but controllable from what i noticed. the pull was quite strong and the gearbox was un-touchable. the steering was very direct and responive but the the feedback was non-existant. £10-12,000 for a honda that lacks feedback, is this something that can be compared to an M3/Boxster/Elise/VX?
the elise is a car i've always wanted to own, an out-right drivers car that will be probably the most fun you can have under 13k? reliability issues (head gasket, leaking roof, electrics, shocks)and lack of practicality...possibly a deal breaker! (same goes for the vx)
SarlechS said:
reliability issues (head gasket, leaking roof, electrics, shocks)and lack of practicality...possibly a deal breaker! (same goes for the vx)
The head gasket on a K series is the Achilles Heel of the engine, but failure is nowhere near as common as people believe it to be. I've owned a Series 1 and a Series 2 over a 4 year period and have never had issues with the head gasket. If it does go, it's a £500-600 job The S1 is more prone to leaking in heavy rain. However the short tail roof of the S2 is much, much better at keeping water out!
Electrics? Not usually an issue ...
Shocks ... The S2 has Bilstein shocks with Eibach springs. I believe they require changing every 40K miles, but mine have lasted 60K miles. I've just changed mine, as one blew oil everywhere
We had a DC2, then the ex wrote it off 
and we looked at S2000/S1 Elise.
In the end, got a Celica GT4 and never looked back (well, he became an ex and I got the car). There's a sprint series if that floats your boat, they are less than half your budget and they are getting pretty rare.
LouGT4
and we looked at S2000/S1 Elise. In the end, got a Celica GT4 and never looked back (well, he became an ex and I got the car). There's a sprint series if that floats your boat, they are less than half your budget and they are getting pretty rare.
LouGT4
Ikemi said:
SarlechS said:
reliability issues (head gasket, leaking roof, electrics, shocks)and lack of practicality...possibly a deal breaker! (same goes for the vx)
The head gasket on a K series is the Achilles Heel of the engine, but failure is nowhere near as common as people believe it to be. I've owned a Series 1 and a Series 2 over a 4 year period and have never had issues with the head gasket. If it does go, it's a £500-600 job The S1 is more prone to leaking in heavy rain. However the short tail roof of the S2 is much, much better at keeping water out!
Electrics? Not usually an issue ...
Shocks ... The S2 has Bilstein shocks with Eibach springs. I believe they require changing every 40K miles, but mine have lasted 60K miles. I've just changed mine, as one blew oil everywhere
I agree with the above. Head gaskets going are relatively uncommon, and cost less than a new set of tyres. Thinking of tyres actually, my first set lasted 28k miles and got changed through age with 5mm left on them, so that saves enough fpr the HGF work ;-)
My S2 111S hood has never ever leaked, and I've driven the car in horrendously heavy rain before (oh, and I also got it through a flood due to the flat bottom and high sills!). I get a few drops getting in when I wash it, but have never seen rain coming in.
Electrics? Not heard of any issues with those.
Dampers... 40k miles is normal for damper wear on any car, but most people won't bother. You just notice it more in such a nicely suspended driver's car. The other choices would benefit after 50 to 60k miles, so not much of a difference there.
People love to say Lotuses are unreliable, as it fits the 1970s stereotype. In reality, the only real worries are the practicalities of driving such a car everyday, with limited boot space, misting up and noise. Mine was my only car for three years, but it's not for everyone.
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