Looking for a diesel but so many plagued with problems?
Discussion
Hi folks,
As the wife's annual mileage is looking likely to increase quite a bit in the near future, I've been looking at picking up a diesel up to, say, £6/7k or so (meaning we can keep the 130i
).
Initial thoughts were a VAG 2.0 (in a Golf, A3, A4), or a BMW 320d (E46 or early E90). However, some research reveals that all these engines can be troublesome, with 4 figure repair costs and even complete engine failure not uncommon. So, moving on to look at Fords; hmm, problems there too. Alfa's? stay away from the diesels say the men in the internet.
Now, I know every car has potential problems, but in each of the above cases its always the diesels that are problematic. Now I have read enough to know that modern diesels run high pressure fuels pumps, injectors etc and are heavily reliant on turbo's but, to be honest, I have no interest in saving a few hundred quid a year in fuel bills in exchange for unreliability / expensive problems.
So, what's the solution? Stick with petrol? Take a chance on one of the above diesels, with or without warranty? Any recommendations for cars I've overlooked?
As the wife's annual mileage is looking likely to increase quite a bit in the near future, I've been looking at picking up a diesel up to, say, £6/7k or so (meaning we can keep the 130i
). Initial thoughts were a VAG 2.0 (in a Golf, A3, A4), or a BMW 320d (E46 or early E90). However, some research reveals that all these engines can be troublesome, with 4 figure repair costs and even complete engine failure not uncommon. So, moving on to look at Fords; hmm, problems there too. Alfa's? stay away from the diesels say the men in the internet.
Now, I know every car has potential problems, but in each of the above cases its always the diesels that are problematic. Now I have read enough to know that modern diesels run high pressure fuels pumps, injectors etc and are heavily reliant on turbo's but, to be honest, I have no interest in saving a few hundred quid a year in fuel bills in exchange for unreliability / expensive problems.
So, what's the solution? Stick with petrol? Take a chance on one of the above diesels, with or without warranty? Any recommendations for cars I've overlooked?
How many miles/what sort of miles?
Unless it's pretty mega there's (in my opinion) little to no advantage of a diesel.
For what it's worth though, my dad's Skoda Fabia mk1 1.9tdi Elegance estate (and breathe!) has been very, very reliable. Around town mileage (but a lot of it) and all it's needed in the last 40,000 miles has been a suspension bush - it's now on just over 80,000 and feels like new. It can get 70mpg on the motorway without being too careful, 40's-50's around town and drives like a bigger car than it is. Elegance model has heated seats etc. They seem to hold their value fairly well too, it's not obvious but I'd definitely recommend a look I've no idea if the normal supermini version would feel the size that it is on the motorway but I would imagine there's no difference.
Unless it's pretty mega there's (in my opinion
) little to no advantage of a diesel. For what it's worth though, my dad's Skoda Fabia mk1 1.9tdi Elegance estate (and breathe!
) has been very, very reliable. Around town mileage (but a lot of it) and all it's needed in the last 40,000 miles has been a suspension bush - it's now on just over 80,000 and feels like new. It can get 70mpg on the motorway without being too careful, 40's-50's around town and drives like a bigger car than it is. Elegance model has heated seats etc. They seem to hold their value fairly well too, it's not obvious but I'd definitely recommend a look I've no idea if the normal supermini version would feel the size that it is on the motorway but I would imagine there's no difference.Heathwood said:
Hi folks,
As the wife's annual mileage is looking likely to increase quite a bit in the near future, I've been looking at picking up a diesel up to, say, £6/7k or so (meaning we can keep the 130i).
Initial thoughts were a VAG 2.0 (in a Golf, A3, A4), or a BMW 320d (E46 or early E90). However, some research reveals that all these engines can be troublesome, with 4 figure repair costs and even complete engine failure not uncommon. So, moving on to look at Fords; hmm, problems there too. Alfa's? stay away from the diesels say the men in the internet.
Now, I know every car has potential problems, but in each of the above cases its always the diesels that are problematic. Now I have read enough to know that modern diesels run high pressure fuels pumps, injectors etc and are heavily reliant on turbo's but, to be honest, I have no interest in saving a few hundred quid a year in fuel bills in exchange for unreliability / expensive problems.
So, what's the solution? Stick with petrol? Take a chance on one of the above diesels, with or without warranty? Any recommendations for cars I've overlooked?
Mate,As the wife's annual mileage is looking likely to increase quite a bit in the near future, I've been looking at picking up a diesel up to, say, £6/7k or so (meaning we can keep the 130i
). Initial thoughts were a VAG 2.0 (in a Golf, A3, A4), or a BMW 320d (E46 or early E90). However, some research reveals that all these engines can be troublesome, with 4 figure repair costs and even complete engine failure not uncommon. So, moving on to look at Fords; hmm, problems there too. Alfa's? stay away from the diesels say the men in the internet.
Now, I know every car has potential problems, but in each of the above cases its always the diesels that are problematic. Now I have read enough to know that modern diesels run high pressure fuels pumps, injectors etc and are heavily reliant on turbo's but, to be honest, I have no interest in saving a few hundred quid a year in fuel bills in exchange for unreliability / expensive problems.
So, what's the solution? Stick with petrol? Take a chance on one of the above diesels, with or without warranty? Any recommendations for cars I've overlooked?
If you research any car, any car at all you will find piles of "common" problems that are expensive to fix and some utter cock muncher telling you to stay away
Further research will help you find that in many cases these "common" problems are actually not that common at all.. people only post on the internet when they have problems, far fewer post to tell you how problem free their car has been so take it with a pinch of salt.
and Saabs Heathwood said:
Hi folks,
As the wife's annual mileage is looking likely to increase quite a bit in the near future, I've been looking at picking up a diesel up to, say, £6/7k or so (meaning we can keep the 130i).
Initial thoughts were a VAG 2.0 (in a Golf, A3, A4), or a BMW 320d (E46 or early E90). However, some research reveals that all these engines can be troublesome, with 4 figure repair costs and even complete engine failure not uncommon. So, moving on to look at Fords; hmm, problems there too. Alfa's? stay away from the diesels say the men in the internet.
Now, I know every car has potential problems, but in each of the above cases its always the diesels that are problematic. Now I have read enough to know that modern diesels run high pressure fuels pumps, injectors etc and are heavily reliant on turbo's but, to be honest, I have no interest in saving a few hundred quid a year in fuel bills in exchange for unreliability / expensive problems.
So, what's the solution? Stick with petrol? Take a chance on one of the above diesels, with or without warranty? Any recommendations for cars I've overlooked?
Modern petrol engines are getting just as bad. Our 330i is in tomorrow for the 5th time with engine issues. It is three years old.As the wife's annual mileage is looking likely to increase quite a bit in the near future, I've been looking at picking up a diesel up to, say, £6/7k or so (meaning we can keep the 130i
). Initial thoughts were a VAG 2.0 (in a Golf, A3, A4), or a BMW 320d (E46 or early E90). However, some research reveals that all these engines can be troublesome, with 4 figure repair costs and even complete engine failure not uncommon. So, moving on to look at Fords; hmm, problems there too. Alfa's? stay away from the diesels say the men in the internet.
Now, I know every car has potential problems, but in each of the above cases its always the diesels that are problematic. Now I have read enough to know that modern diesels run high pressure fuels pumps, injectors etc and are heavily reliant on turbo's but, to be honest, I have no interest in saving a few hundred quid a year in fuel bills in exchange for unreliability / expensive problems.
So, what's the solution? Stick with petrol? Take a chance on one of the above diesels, with or without warranty? Any recommendations for cars I've overlooked?
I've done 70,000 miles in 5 years on my 2.0TDi VAG engine and it's been faultless.
Mind you it has had a full oil and filter change every 10k and most of the miles were clocked up at a steady pace up and down the A1, rather than stop start around town.
I'd happily keep it for another 70k or 5 years if I used it.
Mind you it has had a full oil and filter change every 10k and most of the miles were clocked up at a steady pace up and down the A1, rather than stop start around town.
I'd happily keep it for another 70k or 5 years if I used it.
I own a modern diesel but would be getting rid before it's 5 years old. Clutches/flywheel, injectors, turbos, etc are all common failure points and all expensive.
If I was buying a 6k car to own and run for a few years it'd be petrol all the way. If it had to be diesel it'd be a vag 1.9 pd - horrible engine but at least quite reliable and cheap to fix.
If I was buying a 6k car to own and run for a few years it'd be petrol all the way. If it had to be diesel it'd be a vag 1.9 pd - horrible engine but at least quite reliable and cheap to fix.
Thanks for all the replies.
To add a bit more detail and to respond to some of the points raised.
Mileage will probably not exceed £20k and would be a mix of town and motorway.
As stated in my original post, I know all cars can have problems, but I like to limit the likelihood of problems if at all possible. My main source of info was Honest John, followed by a bit of internet searching (including PH) to clarify any issues. Whilst I've no doubt that plenty of people are driving around in their diesels with no problems, or even an awareness of any problems, there seems little doubt that there are some big potential issues, over and above equivalent petrol cars.
I must admit, sometimes I wish I was the sort to just go out and buy a car I liked. Do enough research and you'll always find reason not to buy.
Anyway, thanks for the replies and suggestions.
To add a bit more detail and to respond to some of the points raised.
Mileage will probably not exceed £20k and would be a mix of town and motorway.
As stated in my original post, I know all cars can have problems, but I like to limit the likelihood of problems if at all possible. My main source of info was Honest John, followed by a bit of internet searching (including PH) to clarify any issues. Whilst I've no doubt that plenty of people are driving around in their diesels with no problems, or even an awareness of any problems, there seems little doubt that there are some big potential issues, over and above equivalent petrol cars.
I must admit, sometimes I wish I was the sort to just go out and buy a car I liked. Do enough research and you'll always find reason not to buy.
Anyway, thanks for the replies and suggestions.
It seems to be more age related than mileage with diesels - they can start playing up at 6/7 yrs old.
Of course some of it is scare stories but it cost one of my colleagues £3500 to get his Toureg sorted - neither VW or an Indie would work on it unless he agreed to pay whether they found the fault or not, and they both said that rather than spend hours on fault finding with no certainly of a result the best thing was to change everything possible.
I'm nervous about this as I have a Merc diesel coming up to 7yrs old. The trouble with diesels seems to be that everything gets a bit iffy with age so it's very hard to nail down faults.
Of course some of it is scare stories but it cost one of my colleagues £3500 to get his Toureg sorted - neither VW or an Indie would work on it unless he agreed to pay whether they found the fault or not, and they both said that rather than spend hours on fault finding with no certainly of a result the best thing was to change everything possible.
I'm nervous about this as I have a Merc diesel coming up to 7yrs old. The trouble with diesels seems to be that everything gets a bit iffy with age so it's very hard to nail down faults.
This is how I justify my 330ci M Sport paid £3.3k, equivalent diesel would be £5k to £6k ok save bit on fuel, but one problem which seems to a when rather than if will wipe out any saving! It does 400 miles per tank whereas my old 530d did about 550, albeit with a 7litre tank
Plus I get to drive around in a silky 230bhp straight six
This is how I justify it anyway
I do about 15k a year btw
Plus I get to drive around in a silky 230bhp straight six
This is how I justify it anyway
I do about 15k a year btw
True, however that's also to say ALL stories of unreliability are myths? Are ALL cars completely reliable?
Of course not, sometimes the stories are actually true. However you have to try to get an overall picture, reliability surveys, warranty company premiums, warranty company reports, trade in prices compared to comparable cars, research on forums, speaking to people in the trade etc. etc.
Some cars are unreliable in the first few years and OK when older (original problems having been fixed) and some are totally OK for 4 years then plagued with problems. The first lot you'll hear a lot about, the latter less (expectations etc.). It's no buying a car that's known to be reliable when quite new if you're buying an old one etc.
Put simply, some cars ARE better engineered and built than others. Sometimes within a manufacturer (i.e they build both good and crap cars) as well as across them.
Some cost a lot to fix, some don't. One big bill on rare occasions or many small problems all the time, which is better? (that's rhetorical btw).
Do what research you can, check the car as best you can when viewing with aforementioned research in mind and hope you don't get a pup!
Of course not, sometimes the stories are actually true. However you have to try to get an overall picture, reliability surveys, warranty company premiums, warranty company reports, trade in prices compared to comparable cars, research on forums, speaking to people in the trade etc. etc.
Some cars are unreliable in the first few years and OK when older (original problems having been fixed) and some are totally OK for 4 years then plagued with problems. The first lot you'll hear a lot about, the latter less (expectations etc.). It's no buying a car that's known to be reliable when quite new if you're buying an old one etc.
Put simply, some cars ARE better engineered and built than others. Sometimes within a manufacturer (i.e they build both good and crap cars) as well as across them.
Some cost a lot to fix, some don't. One big bill on rare occasions or many small problems all the time, which is better? (that's rhetorical btw).
Do what research you can, check the car as best you can when viewing with aforementioned research in mind and hope you don't get a pup!
jason s4 said:
This engine is brilliant, however, it is just as bad as the rest.
EGR & swirl flap issues.
Swirl flaps are part of the intake manifold and is the best part of £800 to replace.
They can be issues on almost any diesel. And Turbo's. Dual mass flywheels, were fitted, are a problem on manual diesels.EGR & swirl flap issues.
Swirl flaps are part of the intake manifold and is the best part of £800 to replace.
The Problems generally seem to occur over 100K miles so getting a lower mileage one should give you some headroom to work with. The problem is the initial extra cost over the petrol equivalent which even second hand is off-putting. So if the petrol is a couple of £k less how long do you have to run the diesel to make it worthwhile given the pump prices??
I went through all this and concluded that the best solution was something with the VAG 1.9 PD130 engine. Not as unbreakable perhaps as some of the earlier VW and Peugot diesels but economical, grunty and seemingly no 'common' faults. Only 'common' big bill seems to be the DMF/clutch. I bought it in an Ibiza Sport with 72k on it; 20k later and it's been faultless (bar a split coolant hose which was an easy fix and could just as easily have happened to a petrol engine). If I were you I'd choose that engine and then simply decide which body you want it to be housed in. Personally I'd recommend a Passat Highline estate or a Superb if you want a cruiser and either an Ibiza Cupra TDI or Fabia VRS if you want some fun (and better economy). Mine does 58 mpg at a constant 70mph, 45mpg at a constant 90mph and averages 52-53mpg across A/B roads and motorway. Can squeeze it well into the 60 mpg range if driven very carefully and really struggle to get it below 40mpg.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff