V8 diesel sports car
Discussion
...where are they?
I still can't understand why nobody has done this and actually got cars to the market.
Doesn't have to be a V8, but there is a huge choice of powerful diesel engines these days. And with the public want for high mpg vehicles I'm truly baffled why such a vehicle has not yet been seen.
I know there are some diehard haters of diesels on here. Suspect most of its just an internet facade and front. Just look at how many people actually run diesel saloons and hatches..... if they where so hated then these would all be petrol's.
And personally I'm still of the opinion that most old school sports cars had lazy, low revving grunty engines anyhow. So a turbo diesels character is more fitting than some of the high revving multivalve petrol engines seen today.
BTW - this was sorted of (re-)sparked by the TVR thread.....
But come on. Would you rather a 3 cylinder and/or hybrid Boxster, or a 280hp CRD one?
If I had the money I'd love to build a Chevy Duramax powered sports car.
I still can't understand why nobody has done this and actually got cars to the market.
Doesn't have to be a V8, but there is a huge choice of powerful diesel engines these days. And with the public want for high mpg vehicles I'm truly baffled why such a vehicle has not yet been seen.
I know there are some diehard haters of diesels on here. Suspect most of its just an internet facade and front. Just look at how many people actually run diesel saloons and hatches..... if they where so hated then these would all be petrol's.
And personally I'm still of the opinion that most old school sports cars had lazy, low revving grunty engines anyhow. So a turbo diesels character is more fitting than some of the high revving multivalve petrol engines seen today.
BTW - this was sorted of (re-)sparked by the TVR thread.....
But come on. Would you rather a 3 cylinder and/or hybrid Boxster, or a 280hp CRD one?
If I had the money I'd love to build a Chevy Duramax powered sports car.
300bhp/ton said:
...where are they?
I still can't understand why nobody has done this and actually got cars to the market.
Doesn't have to be a V8, but there is a huge choice of powerful diesel engines these days. And with the public want for high mpg vehicles I'm truly baffled why such a vehicle has not yet been seen.
I know there are some diehard haters of diesels on here. Suspect most of its just an internet facade and front. Just look at how many people actually run diesel saloons and hatches..... if they where so hated then these would all be petrol's.
And personally I'm still of the opinion that most old school sports cars had lazy, low revving grunty engines anyhow. So a turbo diesels character is more fitting than some of the high revving multivalve petrol engines seen today.
BTW - this was sorted of (re-)sparked by the TVR thread.....
But come on. Would you rather a 3 cylinder and/or hybrid Boxster, or a 280hp CRD one?
If I had the money I'd love to build a Chevy Duramax powered sports car.
This is a gradual education process - high powered diesels have got as 'sporty' as the 335d/635d/D3/TT Tdi/etc (i.e., not very) - but wind back just 10 years and it was utterly unheard of to consider Diesel or performance in the same sentance, yet now, oil burners are the pick of some ranges and offer performance that was solely the territory of the supercar little more than 20/25 years ago.I still can't understand why nobody has done this and actually got cars to the market.
Doesn't have to be a V8, but there is a huge choice of powerful diesel engines these days. And with the public want for high mpg vehicles I'm truly baffled why such a vehicle has not yet been seen.
I know there are some diehard haters of diesels on here. Suspect most of its just an internet facade and front. Just look at how many people actually run diesel saloons and hatches..... if they where so hated then these would all be petrol's.
And personally I'm still of the opinion that most old school sports cars had lazy, low revving grunty engines anyhow. So a turbo diesels character is more fitting than some of the high revving multivalve petrol engines seen today.
BTW - this was sorted of (re-)sparked by the TVR thread.....
But come on. Would you rather a 3 cylinder and/or hybrid Boxster, or a 280hp CRD one?
If I had the money I'd love to build a Chevy Duramax powered sports car.
Audi tried an R10 tdi V12, but it kept catching fire. Bentley are looking at the same engine.
The semi-in-house tuners of Alpina and Brabus are doing things with Diesel, and credibility is being helped at LeMans....but it will take an Oil-Powered M model, or the R8 TDi, or similar to get what you could class as a Diesel Sports car.
Even then, a million ludites won't accept it.
You can get TDI TTs and Sciroccos but I'm guessing that's not what you had in mind.
A lot of people I'm sure would be put off by the noise. However, the likes of the VW Eos, Focus convertible and Megane Convertible (all horrible cars in my opinion) seem to sell well in diesels so I guess there is a market for them, albeit perhaps for people who don't care about performance.
A lot of people I'm sure would be put off by the noise. However, the likes of the VW Eos, Focus convertible and Megane Convertible (all horrible cars in my opinion) seem to sell well in diesels so I guess there is a market for them, albeit perhaps for people who don't care about performance.
Caulkhead said:
If there was a demand, they'd make them.
That's a bit upside down. People can't buy them if they don't make them...What happened to the r8 diesel? I'm sure the Audi le mans programme will trickle down soon. ISTR someone put a duratorq diesel in a atom-style car and received quite a bit of interest.
Agree about the gt being a more appropriate route than out-and-out sports though
kambites said:
Agreed. GT car, yes; muscle car, yes; sports car, no.
Sports cars are all about how fast the car responds to control inputs and diesels just don't seem to do that very well. The combination of a heavy flywheel and a fairly high pressure turbocharger, I guess.
Nail and head Sports cars are all about how fast the car responds to control inputs and diesels just don't seem to do that very well. The combination of a heavy flywheel and a fairly high pressure turbocharger, I guess.
Caulkhead said:
If there was a demand, they'd make them.
Sorry but that argument wears thin and holds no more water than the Cabinet does - leaks everywhere!!Taking it logically - where is or was the demand for hybrids or electric cars. There was none, yet they are still being developed and sold.
Where is the demand in anything before that thing exists? ie was there a demand for an iPhone 10 years ago? No. Doesn't mean there wasn't a market for it though.
Keeping it car related, where was the demand for CC folding roofs? There was none. But now there is because car makers created the demand.
As your a Landy man, where was the demand for the Discovery? A vehicle that effectively created it's own market placement and segment. That demand only existed because a vehicle was produced to create and promote that demand, not the other way round.
Caulkhead said:
For me a sports car needs an open roof and that doesn't mix well with diesel.
I'm still not convinced.-most modern cars are pretty silent, so a petrol vert makes no pleasant noise to listen too.
-Ones that are loud enough to hear are not always pleasant anyhow. ie an MX-5 is hardly musical, its just a bland sounding droney inline 4.
-Vee diesels can actually sound pretty darn good. Certainly 100x better than an inline 4 petrol at any rate
-All diesel cars have windows, so you can hear the engine regardless. Having no roof makes no odds on this. In fact with the wind noise you get a vert is arguably less affected by engine noise than a saloon or hatch.
Caulkhead said:
Then there's the fact that sports cars should be fun to rev
I think this is a debate that could rage all day.... 
Only modern takes on sports cars are like this. A 3.0 litre Healey 3000 MK3, MGC or Shelby Cobra where NOT high revving engines. And in most cases didn't even like revving in the rpm range they had available.
More modern take TVR Chim and Griff. The RV8 is not a revvy motor!!
On the flip side, how freely an engine revs has little to do with how many actual rpms it spins too. Many petrol cars revving to 6500rpm+ are a chore to wind up that high and really don't like it. Power noses over and they simply don't rev well. On the flip side, a slightly tweaked Tdi will happily rev within it's low rpm range, it'll feel very lively and perky.
Caulkhead said:
and sound great, should have light flywheels and quick gearboxes.
Quick gearboxes? Again I refer you to TVR's, past MG's, Triumphs, Healeys, AC's, Morgans and many others...Vytalis said:
Caulkhead said:
If there was a demand, they'd make them.
That's a bit upside down. People can't buy them if they don't make them...What happened to the r8 diesel? I'm sure the Audi le mans programme will trickle down soon. ISTR someone put a duratorq diesel in a atom-style car and received quite a bit of interest.
Agree about the gt being a more appropriate route than out-and-out sports though
The motor manufacturers spend millions trying to understand and predict the market. Some are better than others, but to get it totally wrong and you send your company into a downward spin for years! Its big pressure stuff and a lot of it is to assess, understand and create demand. Its a fine balance, but in some cases it works brilliantly - take the Audi TT, concept to float the idea, blast into production and hey presto - but of course, VAG knew the market for small coupes would explode, so it was a done deal before the TT was shown.
Anyway, why no V8 sports cars? Think market and sector - not many people can afford a "play" car such as a sports car. Even those that can, often have to go for something that is a little more practical (hence the rise of the turbo and small capacity diesel models). When we are looking at the upper end of the market, say Jag / Merc / Masser prices, the number of miles tends to be low and hence economy doesnt come into it. Also prestige is a big issue here and brand, image and quality are major influencers. So a £50k+ coupe diesel might work, such as a 635d, but go above that to sports car range and it starts to make less sense. If you can afford the car (lease, HP or purchase, it doesnt matter) you can afford the fuel and you are less likely to want to compromise. So what if its thirsty, £100 fill ups are nothing when you are spending £1200 a month on the car in the first place!
Anyway, why no V8 sports cars? Think market and sector - not many people can afford a "play" car such as a sports car. Even those that can, often have to go for something that is a little more practical (hence the rise of the turbo and small capacity diesel models). When we are looking at the upper end of the market, say Jag / Merc / Masser prices, the number of miles tends to be low and hence economy doesnt come into it. Also prestige is a big issue here and brand, image and quality are major influencers. So a £50k+ coupe diesel might work, such as a 635d, but go above that to sports car range and it starts to make less sense. If you can afford the car (lease, HP or purchase, it doesnt matter) you can afford the fuel and you are less likely to want to compromise. So what if its thirsty, £100 fill ups are nothing when you are spending £1200 a month on the car in the first place!
zx10ben said:
Yes. Have they actually sold any though? Been speculation and a few pics about for a long long time now.There is a bit of a corollary here with the bike market. The 600s / mid weight sports are very peaky, low torque engines which are a pain in the neck to ride on road. Sales are dipping, but the trend seems to be going across to the litre bikes too (ref: last month bike magazine, so may not be 100% scientific). I think for mainstream cars where running costs and need to use it day to day are an issue then there is an application, but out and out sports cars or muscle cars are better served with revvy, recalcitrant b
ds of an engine (5.7 v8 chevy with a lumpy cam or a 263hp k-series for instance).
ds of an engine (5.7 v8 chevy with a lumpy cam or a 263hp k-series for instance).jesta1865 said:
don't audi do the r8 with a diesel?
not a sports car per-se but the RRS can be had with a lovely sounding tdv8, in fact it sounds better than the v8 supercharged petrol, well from inside anyway
I've heard speculation about the R8 but don't know anything about it.not a sports car per-se but the RRS can be had with a lovely sounding tdv8, in fact it sounds better than the v8 supercharged petrol, well from inside anyway
Re: the RRS - exactly. Now take that TDV8 and put it in a 2 seater weighing 1200-1400kg.
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