Valuing modified cars ?
Discussion
I have a hankering for buying a modified car, not talking about Saxos with flip paint, 12 "Zorsts" and "Banging Choonz" but more an older car with a modern engine in, for example a MK1 or 2 Golf with a 20 Valve Turbo engine from a TT in. I am at a loss as to how to value them, is it as simple as number of pounds versus how much I want it ?
I am interested in resale value for something like that, having read the thread about Clio 182's being not worth much now (< £2000) it kind of makes considering spending six grand on an old Golf feel a bit of a risk, appreciate most of these kind of cars will have cost well in excess of that to build and are labours of love but does anyone have any pointers, experience etc of buying stuff like this, dont really want to spend six grand, run it for a while and not be able to sell or have to practically give it away.
I am interested in resale value for something like that, having read the thread about Clio 182's being not worth much now (< £2000) it kind of makes considering spending six grand on an old Golf feel a bit of a risk, appreciate most of these kind of cars will have cost well in excess of that to build and are labours of love but does anyone have any pointers, experience etc of buying stuff like this, dont really want to spend six grand, run it for a while and not be able to sell or have to practically give it away.
pidsy said:
wouldnt you prefer the satisfaction of doing it yourself?
that way its a proper achievement rather than paying over the odds for something you could have done yourself (with any extras of your own choosing) for less money.
While in someways you are right doing it yourself is far more satisfying I'm not sure it would be cheaper a lot of time you read about cars which have appaerently had £1000's spent on them advertised at a fraction of the costthat way its a proper achievement rather than paying over the odds for something you could have done yourself (with any extras of your own choosing) for less money.
I wouldn't buy something like that and worry about resale value! Buy it for the performance and the quality of the conversion - enjoy it.
If you go for something unique, you just have to accept that a buyer may not be around at the time you want/need to move it on. You're not talking mainstream, and although a £6k diesel focus may always attract plenty of interest, a £6k, 21+ year old Golf with a large engine / high running costs / hefty insurance is only ever going to appeal to a niche.
If you want to do it... Go for it! Old Golfs are cool
If you go for something unique, you just have to accept that a buyer may not be around at the time you want/need to move it on. You're not talking mainstream, and although a £6k diesel focus may always attract plenty of interest, a £6k, 21+ year old Golf with a large engine / high running costs / hefty insurance is only ever going to appeal to a niche.
If you want to do it... Go for it! Old Golfs are cool
Doing it yourself costs a fortune and buying one which is done will be less.
I would say don't bother.
The car never feels "right" with the engine, they feel very very fragile and you lose the fun of it when you're constantly worried about breaking it.
I'd go for a nice 16v GTI if you like mk2's...
Don't get me wrong, having near enough 300bhp in something that looks like it should have 100bhp can be a lot of fun... but it also gets boring explaining to people what it is!!!!!
I would say don't bother.
The car never feels "right" with the engine, they feel very very fragile and you lose the fun of it when you're constantly worried about breaking it.
I'd go for a nice 16v GTI if you like mk2's...
Don't get me wrong, having near enough 300bhp in something that looks like it should have 100bhp can be a lot of fun... but it also gets boring explaining to people what it is!!!!!
Make sure its a mk1 
There are lots of forums, websites and tutorials and doing conversions in golfs if you are handy with a tool and got a bit of time
Very tempted to do it with mine. Want it original though.
Thing is, you will buy it if you think its worth the value of the car being sold.
There are lots of forums, websites and tutorials and doing conversions in golfs if you are handy with a tool and got a bit of time
Very tempted to do it with mine. Want it original though.
Thing is, you will buy it if you think its worth the value of the car being sold.
Hmm, a few opinions then !
I do like the idea of doing it myself but dont have the space to work on one in the dry, I could probably borrow some space
but it would be at the in-laws which is a few miles away which ruins the chances to grab a few minutes here and there.
Interested about the comment of them feeling fragile, was thinking that done well it should be pretty robust, i.e. the right gearbox bolted to a healthy engine in a solid shell sounds, to me like a reliable combination ?
Understand the comments about the just getting on with it but I do want to retain some pragmatism and not end up with a worthless money pit.
I do like the idea of doing it myself but dont have the space to work on one in the dry, I could probably borrow some space
but it would be at the in-laws which is a few miles away which ruins the chances to grab a few minutes here and there.
Interested about the comment of them feeling fragile, was thinking that done well it should be pretty robust, i.e. the right gearbox bolted to a healthy engine in a solid shell sounds, to me like a reliable combination ?
Understand the comments about the just getting on with it but I do want to retain some pragmatism and not end up with a worthless money pit.
My polo was the best converted one I knew of. Very strong 20vt lump running ko4 etc, 280bhp+. It was mated to the 5 speed box from an Ibiza Cupra which meant it could be mounted lower so the drive shafts weren't put under extreme stress.
It had Ibiza Cupra 280mm brakes with fast road discs / pads, top of the range fully adjustable FK suspension, poly bushes this and that, upgraded stronger engine mounts.... Etc etc. A small fortune was spent on it.
It had done 15k miles as a 20vt.
If the roads were like a race track then great! But they're not. Pot holes etc were a nightmare, the car just couldn't handle the power. It was a lot of fun embarrassing cars that it shouldn't but I've grown out of sleepers now.
I can explain more, I'm on my iPhone ATM... Feel free to drop me an email and I'll do my best to give you my thoughts!
But in short, a Lupo GTI with 125bhp would have been more fun. If you want a big powered 20vt, get an S3.
It had Ibiza Cupra 280mm brakes with fast road discs / pads, top of the range fully adjustable FK suspension, poly bushes this and that, upgraded stronger engine mounts.... Etc etc. A small fortune was spent on it.
It had done 15k miles as a 20vt.
If the roads were like a race track then great! But they're not. Pot holes etc were a nightmare, the car just couldn't handle the power. It was a lot of fun embarrassing cars that it shouldn't but I've grown out of sleepers now.
I can explain more, I'm on my iPhone ATM... Feel free to drop me an email and I'll do my best to give you my thoughts!
But in short, a Lupo GTI with 125bhp would have been more fun. If you want a big powered 20vt, get an S3.
DO. YOUR. HOMEWORK.
PH isn't specific enough for 20vt MK2 info, try CGTI or Dubforce or even Edition38.
If buying a pre-converted MK2, condition is everything, a good owner will be happy for you to do a lengthy test drive (make a fuel contribution), and have a look uderneath and poke about the bay.
If possible seek out a car either built to a mega high standard DIY or one built by a tuner that will discuss the car with you.
There are 3 basic versions of the 20vt: 150bhp K03, 180bhp K03s, and 225 K04, this isn't a hard and fast rule, learn what engine code means what, and what the car in partucular is fitted with.
Common 20vt foibles still exist even if the engine isn't in it's donor, so carry out the usual checks.
Brakes and suspension should be upgraded accordingly, also bushes too.
5-6k buys a nice 20vt MK2, 6-8 buys a cracker.
Make sure the car runs a decent gearbox, avoid anything rod-change unless this is factored into the price.
Ignore "home tuned" engines unless there is a pile of receipts, and budget for a pro setup.
Expect a map from a reputable mapper.
Expect to need spare underwear!
cracking cars, silly fast, just make sure the shell and swap are upto standard.
HTH
(2x friends are building 20vt MK2's, I'm building a 24v, and another friend is building a 20vt Rallye)
PH isn't specific enough for 20vt MK2 info, try CGTI or Dubforce or even Edition38.
If buying a pre-converted MK2, condition is everything, a good owner will be happy for you to do a lengthy test drive (make a fuel contribution), and have a look uderneath and poke about the bay.
If possible seek out a car either built to a mega high standard DIY or one built by a tuner that will discuss the car with you.
There are 3 basic versions of the 20vt: 150bhp K03, 180bhp K03s, and 225 K04, this isn't a hard and fast rule, learn what engine code means what, and what the car in partucular is fitted with.
Common 20vt foibles still exist even if the engine isn't in it's donor, so carry out the usual checks.
Brakes and suspension should be upgraded accordingly, also bushes too.
5-6k buys a nice 20vt MK2, 6-8 buys a cracker.
Make sure the car runs a decent gearbox, avoid anything rod-change unless this is factored into the price.
Ignore "home tuned" engines unless there is a pile of receipts, and budget for a pro setup.
Expect a map from a reputable mapper.
Expect to need spare underwear!
cracking cars, silly fast, just make sure the shell and swap are upto standard.HTH
(2x friends are building 20vt MK2's, I'm building a 24v, and another friend is building a 20vt Rallye)
This looks like a nice buy:
http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...
personally, i'd change the inlet to the 225 one to create a better laid out bay.
http://www.edition38.com/forums/index.php?showtopi...
personally, i'd change the inlet to the 225 one to create a better laid out bay.
JB! said:
Ignore "home tuned" engines unless there is a pile of receipts, and budget for a pro setup.
Expect a map from a reputable mapper.
Bit of a wild generalisation. Plenty of "pro's" who are cretins - whilst at the same time there are plenty of DIY's who understand what they are doing.Expect a map from a reputable mapper.
You have to look at the whole conversion and the person who's selling it and make a judgement.
eliot said:
Bit of a wild generalisation. Plenty of "pro's" who are cretins - whilst at the same time there are plenty of DIY's who understand what they are doing.
You have to look at the whole conversion and the person who's selling it and make a judgement.
IME alot of DIY'ers know nothing about mapping, for example.You have to look at the whole conversion and the person who's selling it and make a judgement.
I have seen ALOT of nice DIY conversions, but am yet to see someone who can actually TUNE a 20vt in their garage at home.
That's what I'm getting at, nothing wrong with a DIY swap at all, but budget for some roller time & custom mapping to get the best out of it, iron out fuelling, timing and if it's DBW, throttle sensitivity.
They are very difficult to value because they are impossible to sell unless you are prepared to wait months and months for someone prepared to pay decent money, also with older ones you are very unlikely to find one that does not have loads of annoying little problems - which are fine when you built it and can live with it but not so fine if you paid a fortune for an old tarted up banger. I have been there done that A few times and suggest it's not worth the aggro.
JB! said:
IME alot of DIY'ers know nothing about mapping, for example.
I have seen ALOT of nice DIY conversions, but am yet to see someone who can actually TUNE a 20vt in their garage at home.
That's what I'm getting at, nothing wrong with a DIY swap at all, but budget for some roller time & custom mapping to get the best out of it, iron out fuelling, timing and if it's DBW, throttle sensitivity.
Looking at your profile pic - it looks like you work at Steves place. So you should be familiar with my Dakar that was tuned by me. You can come out on a brake test next time with me.I have seen ALOT of nice DIY conversions, but am yet to see someone who can actually TUNE a 20vt in their garage at home.
That's what I'm getting at, nothing wrong with a DIY swap at all, but budget for some roller time & custom mapping to get the best out of it, iron out fuelling, timing and if it's DBW, throttle sensitivity.
eliot said:
Looking at your profile pic - it looks like you work at Steves place. So you should be familiar with my Dakar that was tuned by me. You can come out on a brake test next time with me.
I don't work for Steve, I just loiter and help out every now and again!But yeah I'm always up for a passenger ride!
J4CKO said:
I have a hankering for buying a modified car, not talking about Saxos with flip paint, 12 "Zorsts" and "Banging Choonz" but more an older car with a modern engine in, for example a MK1 or 2 Golf with a 20 Valve Turbo engine from a TT in. I am at a loss as to how to value them, is it as simple as number of pounds versus how much I want it ?
I am interested in resale value for something like that, having read the thread about Clio 182's being not worth much now (< £2000) it kind of makes considering spending six grand on an old Golf feel a bit of a risk, appreciate most of these kind of cars will have cost well in excess of that to build and are labours of love but does anyone have any pointers, experience etc of buying stuff like this, dont really want to spend six grand, run it for a while and not be able to sell or have to practically give it away.
Price is a difficult thing here.I am interested in resale value for something like that, having read the thread about Clio 182's being not worth much now (< £2000) it kind of makes considering spending six grand on an old Golf feel a bit of a risk, appreciate most of these kind of cars will have cost well in excess of that to build and are labours of love but does anyone have any pointers, experience etc of buying stuff like this, dont really want to spend six grand, run it for a while and not be able to sell or have to practically give it away.
On one hand any mod adds nothing to the value and reduces the number of people likely to buy it. So as a trade in, auction sale or just chop it out quick they are worth sod all.
However depending on exactly what is done it can create a niche, which can make it sort after. This way a higher value will be retained. There are also certain types that will happily massively over pay for such cars. So somtimes pricing has no logic.
In regards to the Golf, purists will want mint stock ones. But petrol heads might well appreciate something tinkered with. That said I do think the VW scene as a whole has a lot of delusional people in it who frequently pay 2, 3, 5 times too much for utter crap.
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