The Euro war on the car: NY Times article
Discussion
How accurate is this?.......very depressing stuff:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/science/earth/27...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/27/science/earth/27...
One need only look around home city of choice to see this.
We have an awesome system of bus lanes to get you into town, but none to get you home. It's inspired.
Edit: I remember when I worked in town, took me 50 minutes on average on a bus. To cover 4.5 f
king miles. I could literally RUN it quicker than that. For comparison, car was 20 minutes, bike about 16-18.
But yeah, public transport is TOTALLY they way forward. Totally. It is in no way inconvenient and crap if you need to get anywhere in a timely fashion, no sir.
If I took public transport to my current office, I'd see my kids awake...at the weekends. Sorry, but no.
We have an awesome system of bus lanes to get you into town, but none to get you home. It's inspired.
Edit: I remember when I worked in town, took me 50 minutes on average on a bus. To cover 4.5 f
king miles. I could literally RUN it quicker than that. For comparison, car was 20 minutes, bike about 16-18.But yeah, public transport is TOTALLY they way forward. Totally. It is in no way inconvenient and crap if you need to get anywhere in a timely fashion, no sir.
If I took public transport to my current office, I'd see my kids awake...at the weekends. Sorry, but no.
Edited by roachcoach on Tuesday 28th June 15:15
Its the attitude of the planners/people in power portrayed in that article that pisses me off.
Yes I'm a petrolhead and love driving, but i'd still rather get the train into town for the pub or shopping- but I want to use public transport where its convenient for me.... not because driving has been made unnecessarily difficult, inconvenient or dangerous!!
Its such a backward way of thinking/organising IMO it's a rather sad state of affairs that people who think that way are allowed to hold positions of influence.
Yes I'm a petrolhead and love driving, but i'd still rather get the train into town for the pub or shopping- but I want to use public transport where its convenient for me.... not because driving has been made unnecessarily difficult, inconvenient or dangerous!!
Its such a backward way of thinking/organising IMO it's a rather sad state of affairs that people who think that way are allowed to hold positions of influence.
It's all "stick" - car is bad, parking is expensive or non-existant, roads arre restricted and/or pedestrianised/bus-laned, etc.
and no "carrot" - public transport convenient, cheap and reliable? No chance.
Of course, "carrot" would require significant investment, "stick" merely requires some by-laws and enforcement.
and no "carrot" - public transport convenient, cheap and reliable? No chance.
Of course, "carrot" would require significant investment, "stick" merely requires some by-laws and enforcement.
I was in work at 7am yesterday. To do this in my car I get up at half 5, leave by 6.10 whilst taking my time getting ready and arrive 40 minutes later, at the most.
I live in a greenbelt area just outside of Liverpool, the nearest bus stop is a 30 minute walk and the nearest train station with a decent service is 45 minute walk. To reach the train station by car its 5 minutes, max.
My car is in the garage, so had to take public transport. I woke up just before 5, left at 5.15 walking to the station, and got to the train station at 6 in time for the very first train of the day at 6.05. Had to change trains at Liverpool central, walked briskly straight to the platform I needed and I still missed my connecting train by a couple of seconds. Had to wait half an hour for the next one. Got off at my required stop at 7am and still had a 20 minute walk to work.
2 hours travel just to get into work versus 40 minutes maximum in comfort whilst listening to my favourite music is why I absolutely fking hate public transport and the governments push towards it. Surely they are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to persuade people to take the train / bus when it is so inefficient. Won't the economy take a massive downturn as people end up late and tired? Although I have been to London and the public transport there sts all over any other cities and this rant probably doesn't apply as much. A bus every 2-3 minutes and a train every 5? Luxury! I think the government sometimes forgets that there is a country outside of the capital.
I live in a greenbelt area just outside of Liverpool, the nearest bus stop is a 30 minute walk and the nearest train station with a decent service is 45 minute walk. To reach the train station by car its 5 minutes, max.
My car is in the garage, so had to take public transport. I woke up just before 5, left at 5.15 walking to the station, and got to the train station at 6 in time for the very first train of the day at 6.05. Had to change trains at Liverpool central, walked briskly straight to the platform I needed and I still missed my connecting train by a couple of seconds. Had to wait half an hour for the next one. Got off at my required stop at 7am and still had a 20 minute walk to work.
2 hours travel just to get into work versus 40 minutes maximum in comfort whilst listening to my favourite music is why I absolutely f
king hate public transport and the governments push towards it. Surely they are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to persuade people to take the train / bus when it is so inefficient. Won't the economy take a massive downturn as people end up late and tired? Although I have been to London and the public transport there sts all over any other cities and this rant probably doesn't apply as much. A bus every 2-3 minutes and a train every 5? Luxury! I think the government sometimes forgets that there is a country outside of the capital.There are various bus-lanes that have been inflicted on Cardiff at vast expense and inconvenience to car traffic but in certain sections they peter out and have to rejoin the traffic. Moral dilemma - do you let them in? I don't. They have got round this at some points by installing lights but they still then have to wait and there is an unnecessary criss-cross of traffic and further delay to all.
Good to see that the Council are spending out taxes on this crap while the potholes remain.
Good to see that the Council are spending out taxes on this crap while the potholes remain.
ewenm said:
It's all "stick" - car is bad, parking is expensive or non-existant, roads arre restricted and/or pedestrianised/bus-laned, etc.
and no "carrot" - public transport convenient, cheap and reliable? No chance.
Of course, "carrot" would require significant investment, "stick" merely requires some by-laws and enforcement. and can generate a good amount of income in terms of fines for bus lane use and parking
EFAand no "carrot" - public transport convenient, cheap and reliable? No chance.
Of course, "carrot" would require significant investment, "stick" merely requires some by-laws and enforcement. and can generate a good amount of income in terms of fines for bus lane use and parking
The stupid thing is that most people require a car "anyway" and that car MUST be taxed and insured at all times so any journey is only going to be the petrol cost. A trip to work by car takes 20m but as above, a trip by rail or bus requires a 20 minute walk and by train, it's £3.50 for a single to travel 9 miles and something like £5-odd for a return. So I'll take the car.
Obviously, I also have to take my children to either a childminder or my mother's and oddly, the trains and buses simply refuse to go out of their way to accommodate me.
Obviously, I also have to take my children to either a childminder or my mother's and oddly, the trains and buses simply refuse to go out of their way to accommodate me.
This policy is idiotic... just look at what an anti-car agenda has done to Edinburgh.... The shoppers stay away and go to easily accessed suburban big box stores while the town centre withers and dies.
It's like the last governments brilliant idea to limit the number of spaces developers were allowed to build in commercial developments, with the end result nobody would move in since staff could not get parked and 90% of the time there was no bus or train service.
You can't force people to do what you want, people respond better to the carrot, not the stick.
It's like the last governments brilliant idea to limit the number of spaces developers were allowed to build in commercial developments, with the end result nobody would move in since staff could not get parked and 90% of the time there was no bus or train service.
You can't force people to do what you want, people respond better to the carrot, not the stick.
jbi said:
This policy is idiotic... just look at what an anti-car agenda has done to Edinburgh.... The shoppers stay away and go to easily accessed suburban big box stores while the town centre withers and dies.
Guess what the nobbers who ruined the town centres with parking restrictions and charges think is the solution to the move to out of town stores?Not much love for public transport here either..
I'm at least vaguely eco conscious - I recycle a lot, and I do cycle quite often.. I live pretty close to work now (2.5 miles) so no excuse really!
But it's not possible for me to get a single bus straight to work. In fact no bus goes past where I live. I'd need to walk a mile to get to a stop, which would take me well away from where I actually want to be.
Where I lived previously, I was right on the bus route.. but the bus would still drop me off about half a mile from where I needed to be. And, invariably, it was CRAMMED with students so I'd have to stand.
The problem with public transport is that there's always compromise. And as has been said employers and councils want to inflict pain on the motorist, without actually providing a decent alternative. It's a complete pain in the backside.
I'm at least vaguely eco conscious - I recycle a lot, and I do cycle quite often.. I live pretty close to work now (2.5 miles) so no excuse really!
But it's not possible for me to get a single bus straight to work. In fact no bus goes past where I live. I'd need to walk a mile to get to a stop, which would take me well away from where I actually want to be.
Where I lived previously, I was right on the bus route.. but the bus would still drop me off about half a mile from where I needed to be. And, invariably, it was CRAMMED with students so I'd have to stand.
The problem with public transport is that there's always compromise. And as has been said employers and councils want to inflict pain on the motorist, without actually providing a decent alternative. It's a complete pain in the backside.
otolith said:
Guess what the nobbers who ruined the town centres with parking restrictions and charges think is the solution to the move to out of town stores?
It's a variant on that Fawlty Towers episode when you meet someone from Edinburgh: 'Don't mention the trams!'. £700m and counting, all footed by Edinburgh council tax payers IIRC. Poor sods.Chicane-UK said:
Not much love for public transport here either..
I'm at least vaguely eco conscious - I recycle a lot, and I do cycle quite often.. I live pretty close to work now (2.5 miles) so no excuse really!
.
It's nothing to do with being eco-concious and everything to do with lack of proper infrastructure investment and pandering to nimby's. I'm at least vaguely eco conscious - I recycle a lot, and I do cycle quite often.. I live pretty close to work now (2.5 miles) so no excuse really!
.
I could get to work and back on public transport. It would only takes 8 hours out of my day and only costs me £38. Oh, it'd also have me arriving at my desk 1hr 42mins late, which I'd obviously have to make-up at the end of the day but that's fine as I'd conveniently get back home just in time to get ready for work.
Or I could take the car and be there in 25 minutes.
Or I could take the car and be there in 25 minutes.
It is depressing really, I generally go out of my way to buy stuff from shops in the town centre rather than online (I even buy CD's from HMV rather than download) where there is a shop that sells it.
But if it were made nigh on impossible to drive and park those shops would loose my business as I would simply switch to online shopping. I dare say many more would do the same, even though we actually have a half decent public transport system (busses every 10 minutes) I do it out of protest more than anything.
What I really loath is the quotes from the ministers/councillors who are the architects of this who positively love the fact that it is impossible/difficult to use cars in certain areas, it just comes across as a form of communism to me.
But if it were made nigh on impossible to drive and park those shops would loose my business as I would simply switch to online shopping. I dare say many more would do the same, even though we actually have a half decent public transport system (busses every 10 minutes) I do it out of protest more than anything.
What I really loath is the quotes from the ministers/councillors who are the architects of this who positively love the fact that it is impossible/difficult to use cars in certain areas, it just comes across as a form of communism to me.
To get to work, I can either:
1. Drive - 15-30 minutes depending on traffic
2. Tram - 25 minutes
3. Cycle - 10-15 minutes depending on wind
4. Rollerblade - 20-25 minutes
5. Walk - 50 minutes
6. Row - no idea as I am currently rowingboatless
I almost never drive on a daily basis. I collected my car in September 2010 and it has yet to break 8000 miles!
Not only that, the buses and trams stop at the railway stations AND run until past midnight, there are more miles of cyclepath than road, public transport is cheap and reliable. Kids cycle to school (gym, sports, music, going out), adults cycle to work (shopping, restaurants, IKEA, etc).
Oh wait, I'm not in the UK but in Holland (I could also be in Sweden or a number of other European countries). I happen to be a big advocate for public transport - if it's done properly, it's vastly superior to driving around in a car.
The problem in the UK is simply that the towns were never designed around public transport and can't be without getting rid of the car completely which is impossible now the car is so deeply ingrained into British culture. I've cycled in London - it's a nightmare, randomly appearing stretches of cyclepath which suddenly change from one side of the road to the other, road users who don't expect to see cyclists, road users who are so annoyed with cyclists jumping red lights that they cut you up. i.e. the problem in the UK is a combination of incorrectly-designed towns and lifestyle (the two feeding off each other in a vicious circle). In Holland, everyone learns to ride a bike before they go to school, they then ride a bike to school. Whilst some will get a moped at 16, most will simply keep cycling everywhere. Once they can drive, they will get a car but keep cycling for most journeys. As such, all car drivers are trained to expect cyclists to do weird stuff (the Dutch jump/ignore red lights when cycling much more that anyone else, even cycle-couriers in London) and it's perfectly normal, almost expected, to turn up to a posh dinner party on a bike. Michelin-starred restaurants have bike racks. Rental bikes are available at railway stations.
Even if you live in the sticks, there are cyclepaths and buses and Holland is one of the few places in Europe which is still expanding it's railway and tram network.
Yes, there's a downside, we have very few decent "drivers" roads although we have some lovely tunnels
However Germany and the Ardennes aren't exactly far away
1. Drive - 15-30 minutes depending on traffic
2. Tram - 25 minutes
3. Cycle - 10-15 minutes depending on wind
4. Rollerblade - 20-25 minutes
5. Walk - 50 minutes
6. Row - no idea as I am currently rowingboatless
I almost never drive on a daily basis. I collected my car in September 2010 and it has yet to break 8000 miles!
Not only that, the buses and trams stop at the railway stations AND run until past midnight, there are more miles of cyclepath than road, public transport is cheap and reliable. Kids cycle to school (gym, sports, music, going out), adults cycle to work (shopping, restaurants, IKEA, etc).
Oh wait, I'm not in the UK but in Holland (I could also be in Sweden or a number of other European countries). I happen to be a big advocate for public transport - if it's done properly, it's vastly superior to driving around in a car.
The problem in the UK is simply that the towns were never designed around public transport and can't be without getting rid of the car completely which is impossible now the car is so deeply ingrained into British culture. I've cycled in London - it's a nightmare, randomly appearing stretches of cyclepath which suddenly change from one side of the road to the other, road users who don't expect to see cyclists, road users who are so annoyed with cyclists jumping red lights that they cut you up. i.e. the problem in the UK is a combination of incorrectly-designed towns and lifestyle (the two feeding off each other in a vicious circle). In Holland, everyone learns to ride a bike before they go to school, they then ride a bike to school. Whilst some will get a moped at 16, most will simply keep cycling everywhere. Once they can drive, they will get a car but keep cycling for most journeys. As such, all car drivers are trained to expect cyclists to do weird stuff (the Dutch jump/ignore red lights when cycling much more that anyone else, even cycle-couriers in London) and it's perfectly normal, almost expected, to turn up to a posh dinner party on a bike. Michelin-starred restaurants have bike racks. Rental bikes are available at railway stations.
Even if you live in the sticks, there are cyclepaths and buses and Holland is one of the few places in Europe which is still expanding it's railway and tram network.
Yes, there's a downside, we have very few decent "drivers" roads although we have some lovely tunnels
However Germany and the Ardennes aren't exactly far away otolith said:
Guess what the nobbers who ruined the town centres with parking restrictions and charges think is the solution to the move to out of town stores?
In Cambridge the car haters tried to implement a congestion charging zone. However, being car haters they decided that the zone should cover the whole city right out to the A14 to include the out of town science parks and all those poor sods who would have to pay every day to drive to work. (And if the council get their way, pay to park in the works car park too) This "congestion" zone would also have included the Park and Ride carpark. The idea has been shelved for the moment, however, the fact that they have relocated the park & ride car park another mile further away suggests that the idea is not dead yet.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff