Focus ST Experience
Discussion
Impressive, novel but not perfect...
... is what I felt about a friend's 2009 ST that I drove back from Goodwood on Sunday. I want to share my experiences, aimed at those who haven't tried one and want to know what they are like. I'll try to give you a feel.
The stand-out aspect of to the experience should come as no surprise for those familiar with the technical specifications, and it is the large engine installed crossways at the front. It's actually a Volvo engine, and those old Volvos always sounded quite good to me which isn't lost here. More than that, though, you can't failto love the strong pull that it has. Don't look at the power figure (222bhp), instead just imagine a large engine, with a turbocharger, in a front wheel drive hatch. Now, I have been able to a few of the similarly powered alternatives - Golf Edition 30, TT 225, Impreza turbo 2000, TT V6, and none have the overall character of this unit. It comes down to a mixture of a silky, slightly naughty noise and the fact that even in 6th, at any typical motorway speed, you've an easy, relaxed and hefty punch on tap. It's memorable and rewarding, even though it feels faster than it actually is. It's not perfect though. Change down and you feel as though it hits the rev limiter disappointingly soon. At low revs there is still some labouring, the mapping sometimes feels artificial, and the turbo lag is, well, enormous in the higher gears. But it still gets an A for motive power.
And the engine pretty much defines the experience for the rest of the car - and I mean that in both good and bad ways. It's stable and grippy as a Ford Focus is known to be, but it also sometimes feels surprisingly heavy, which the engine may not help. To me, and probably as a result of this, it didn't seem like there wasn't any feedback at all, although without driving it for longer and having the opportunity to find the limits it's hard to be certain the feedback isn't just hiding away somewhere. In addition to that was the ride which felt strange. It was quickly apparent even from the passenger seat that the front and rear ends behave totally differently - it reminded me of my Mercedes with its current suspension fault that has made the rear suspension incredibly stiff compared to the front. On top of that the suspension seems to be to soft for the initial 10% of movement and stiff thereafter. I suppose you just have to get used to it. The engine's power is well contained in a straight line and there's nothing to worry about in the dry. It's only when a bend comes that a pre-emptive smile is wiped off your face and the ESP cuts off your commands even before you thought you were going to challenge the chassis. I'd like to investigate this area more, too, but don't really fancy it in somebody else's car.
And for the economy stats bores, don't discount too quickly on this either. This example averages a poor 24MPG in normal usage, but that is all in town. Our computer gave us 30.4MPG, on premium unleaded, over the 200 miles there and back, which including the excruciating 90 minute crawl out of the (VIP) Goodwood car park.
... is what I felt about a friend's 2009 ST that I drove back from Goodwood on Sunday. I want to share my experiences, aimed at those who haven't tried one and want to know what they are like. I'll try to give you a feel.
The stand-out aspect of to the experience should come as no surprise for those familiar with the technical specifications, and it is the large engine installed crossways at the front. It's actually a Volvo engine, and those old Volvos always sounded quite good to me which isn't lost here. More than that, though, you can't failto love the strong pull that it has. Don't look at the power figure (222bhp), instead just imagine a large engine, with a turbocharger, in a front wheel drive hatch. Now, I have been able to a few of the similarly powered alternatives - Golf Edition 30, TT 225, Impreza turbo 2000, TT V6, and none have the overall character of this unit. It comes down to a mixture of a silky, slightly naughty noise and the fact that even in 6th, at any typical motorway speed, you've an easy, relaxed and hefty punch on tap. It's memorable and rewarding, even though it feels faster than it actually is. It's not perfect though. Change down and you feel as though it hits the rev limiter disappointingly soon. At low revs there is still some labouring, the mapping sometimes feels artificial, and the turbo lag is, well, enormous in the higher gears. But it still gets an A for motive power.
And the engine pretty much defines the experience for the rest of the car - and I mean that in both good and bad ways. It's stable and grippy as a Ford Focus is known to be, but it also sometimes feels surprisingly heavy, which the engine may not help. To me, and probably as a result of this, it didn't seem like there wasn't any feedback at all, although without driving it for longer and having the opportunity to find the limits it's hard to be certain the feedback isn't just hiding away somewhere. In addition to that was the ride which felt strange. It was quickly apparent even from the passenger seat that the front and rear ends behave totally differently - it reminded me of my Mercedes with its current suspension fault that has made the rear suspension incredibly stiff compared to the front. On top of that the suspension seems to be to soft for the initial 10% of movement and stiff thereafter. I suppose you just have to get used to it. The engine's power is well contained in a straight line and there's nothing to worry about in the dry. It's only when a bend comes that a pre-emptive smile is wiped off your face and the ESP cuts off your commands even before you thought you were going to challenge the chassis. I'd like to investigate this area more, too, but don't really fancy it in somebody else's car.
And for the economy stats bores, don't discount too quickly on this either. This example averages a poor 24MPG in normal usage, but that is all in town. Our computer gave us 30.4MPG, on premium unleaded, over the 200 miles there and back, which including the excruciating 90 minute crawl out of the (VIP) Goodwood car park.
I've always wondered why the ST seems to be a bit lacking in torque. It's a bit underwhelming at 236lb-ft from a big 2.5 five cylinder volvo engine when compared to something like a Mazda 3 MPS producing 280lb-ft from a 2.3 four cylinder, especially when they're all really from the same company.
I have the Mountune 260 on mine and although the lag is still very much there like most turbo cars without variable vane or twin charger, it packs an even more impressive punch. My fuel economy hasnt changed for the mods either. I have fitted eibach springs ( ford authorised mod) and had the suspension re set up afterwards. Also I have fitted the whiteline arb on the rear.It helps with combating roll. Its no Elise in the handling stakes( had one before this) but its a utility car with good grunt for the money.It would also leave my 111's S2 elise in its wake with acceleration midrange and not much in the 0 -60's.
For the money, I am happy with mine and with a decent run with a/c on, we managed 30 mpg to snetterton and back in the heat a couple of weeks back. Downsides? If your a badge snob, its a ford, which I dont care about. Goodsides ? cheap to fix ( new grooved discs and uprated pads for £200)eibach springs and arb under £300, Mountune uprate is warrantied under ford, so no issues, mine is boring grey 5 door, so goes under the rozzer radar ( apparently LOL)
For the money, I am happy with mine and with a decent run with a/c on, we managed 30 mpg to snetterton and back in the heat a couple of weeks back. Downsides? If your a badge snob, its a ford, which I dont care about. Goodsides ? cheap to fix ( new grooved discs and uprated pads for £200)eibach springs and arb under £300, Mountune uprate is warrantied under ford, so no issues, mine is boring grey 5 door, so goes under the rozzer radar ( apparently LOL)
Baryonyx said:
The MPG is very poor compared to similar, more powerful hatches like the Seat Leon Cupra R. But I do love 5 cylinder engines, especially the one in my S60!
True, but when you say 'more powerful' that's only top end power at peak revs. What about the remaining 1000-5000rpm you spend most of your time in. I think that's where the economy/performance balance changes between the two. The cupra has a lot of shove but it's different in execution and requires you to be more up for it and to forgive it's weaknesses a lot more.turning the traction control off makes the car a lot different, its quite intrusive and ruins most of the fun to be honest.
A good way of seeing this is to put two side by side one off and one on or take a corner at any speed with it on and immediately cuts power as it senses a lose of traction.
Mountune upgrade is probably the best upgrade you can buy for the car and is less than £1000 fitted if you go through the owners club(group buys) drastically improved performance better sound and no economical disadvantage probabaly should have come out of the factory with this as standard.
Front end does seem a bit heavy over bumpy roads or when thrown into a corner but i think this is also what helps keeps it planted and its just a case of keeping it balanced.
Iv enjoyed every minute of my ownership so much so that the only cars i am considering to replace it are things like 911's,z4m,cayman and so on.
A good way of seeing this is to put two side by side one off and one on or take a corner at any speed with it on and immediately cuts power as it senses a lose of traction.
Mountune upgrade is probably the best upgrade you can buy for the car and is less than £1000 fitted if you go through the owners club(group buys) drastically improved performance better sound and no economical disadvantage probabaly should have come out of the factory with this as standard.
Front end does seem a bit heavy over bumpy roads or when thrown into a corner but i think this is also what helps keeps it planted and its just a case of keeping it balanced.
Iv enjoyed every minute of my ownership so much so that the only cars i am considering to replace it are things like 911's,z4m,cayman and so on.
ClintonB said:
In what way is the Volvo significantly more modern (whatever that actually means)? What is a 'typical' ST/RS driver?
The Volvo is a much newer car. It certainly looks fresher on the inside and outside, though I've never driven one so I couldn't comment there. In think the 'typical ST/RS driver' comment is referring to the large number of chavs who have them. The RS is a great car, but most of them, especially the green ones, are driven by chavvy sorts who would have been wearing Burberry caps ten years ago. Similarly, the orange and white ST's have always had a good following around council estates. Edited by Baryonyx on Sunday 10th July 13:26
Baryonyx said:
ClintonB said:
In what way is the Volvo significantly more modern (whatever that actually means)? What is a 'typical' ST/RS driver?
The Volvo is a much newer car. The ST is based off the mk2 Focus platform, which is getting on a bit. It certainly looks fresher on the inside and outside, though I've never driven one so I couldn't comment there. In think the 'typical ST/RS driver' comment is referring to the large number of chavs who have them. The RS is a great car, but most of them, especially the green ones, are driven by chavvy sorts who would have been wearing Burberry caps ten years ago. Similarly, the orange and white ST's have always had a good following around council estates. As for the typical driver rubbish, I've never actually encountered a true chav driving one (or being able to afford to run one). The owners/drivers I've seen have been anything but in the main.
ClintonB said:
No it isn't, it is largely the same car and of similar vintage, hence the mystery as to how it is so much more modern.
As for the typical driver rubbish, I've never actually encountered a true chav driving one (or being able to afford to run one). The owners/drivers I've seen have been anything but in the main.
Well, the C30 T5 is based off the same platform. But looking at it, you'd be hard pressed to say it doesn't look the more modern car. It wouldn't surprise me if the differences didn't stop there. I assume the C30 will be tweaked in such a way as to get the best from it, whereas the ST hasn't really moved on since the platform was established. As for the typical driver rubbish, I've never actually encountered a true chav driving one (or being able to afford to run one). The owners/drivers I've seen have been anything but in the main.
Although if you've never seen a chav driving a Focus ST you need to get out more. Yes, they do attract other drivers (I know a woman who has one, and a woman who had one before getting a mk2 RS) but they are definitely chavvy, sadly enough. Did you not see those 'Asbo' badges for them? I'm a huge Ford fan but I'll be the first to admit they have an image problem.
Gary C said:
Lag ?, when I drove one the lag was minimal (ie much less that my EVO V I had at the time).
Do you mean the transition from off boost to on boost as the revs increase ?
I'm pretty sure I mean the lag. In lower gears it's not a problem, but in higher gears, although it will pull very strongly at low revs, it sometimes takes forever to build up. Whether this is down to the time for the turbo to spin up, or the fact of being 'off boost', I don't know. I think it's probably a combination of both. Most turbos are more clear cut in their off boost and on boost points without much strange in-between behaviour. Do you mean the transition from off boost to on boost as the revs increase ?
But, in the old days (or even back in the days of the Evo V) an engine like this would have made zero boost until 2500-3000 rpm anyway, so I guess this is what new technology has brought us - the ability to make boost even at low speeds, but with some imperfection.
Anyway, enough of this. Good car, sad to see a four cylinder in it's place, but times change.
Pentoman said:
I'm pretty sure I mean the lag. In lower gears it's not a problem, but in higher gears, although it will pull very strongly at low revs, it sometimes takes forever to build up. Whether this is down to the time for the turbo to spin up, or the fact of being 'off boost', I don't know. I think it's probably a combination of both. Most turbos are more clear cut in their off boost and on boost points without much strange in-between behaviour.
But, in the old days (or even back in the days of the Evo V) an engine like this would have made zero boost until 2500-3000 rpm anyway, so I guess this is what new technology has brought us - the ability to make boost even at low speeds, but with some imperfection.
Anyway, enough of this. Good car, sad to see a four cylinder in it's place, but times change.
Technically lag is the delay between opening the throttle, the turbo spinning up and the engine delivering the increased torque.But, in the old days (or even back in the days of the Evo V) an engine like this would have made zero boost until 2500-3000 rpm anyway, so I guess this is what new technology has brought us - the ability to make boost even at low speeds, but with some imperfection.
Anyway, enough of this. Good car, sad to see a four cylinder in it's place, but times change.
For example if the engine is spinning at 5000rpm with the throttle closed and the turbo has spun down (ie because no exhaust flow), when you snap open the throttle to 100%, there is a small delay before the engine delivers its full torque as the turbo spins back up.
The effect of opening the throttle at 2000rpm off boost then waiting for the engine revs to build to a point where the exhaust gas flow is large enough to spin the turbo to produce positive boost is often called lag, but its not really right.
Thanks for the write up, always good to hear real-world experiences of performance cars.
I have a friend with a 60reg ST and another with an 11reg RS, interestingly the RS owner gets better economy on a cruise than the ST owner!
ST owner also commented on the TRC system, despite having pretty wide tyres (225s?) it cuts in very early and he found it really intrusive.
I have a friend with a 60reg ST and another with an 11reg RS, interestingly the RS owner gets better economy on a cruise than the ST owner!
ST owner also commented on the TRC system, despite having pretty wide tyres (225s?) it cuts in very early and he found it really intrusive.
Pentoman said:
Impressive, novel but not perfect...
... is what I felt about a friend's 2009 ST that I drove back from Goodwood on Sunday. I want to share my experiences, aimed at those who haven't tried one and want to know what they are like. I'll try to give you a feel.
The stand-out aspect of to the experience should come as no surprise for those familiar with the technical specifications, and it is the large engine installed crossways at the front. It's actually a Volvo engine, and those old Volvos always sounded quite good to me which isn't lost here. More than that, though, you can't failto love the strong pull that it has. Don't look at the power figure (222bhp), instead just imagine a large engine, with a turbocharger, in a front wheel drive hatch. Now, I have been able to a few of the similarly powered alternatives - Golf Edition 30, TT 225, Impreza turbo 2000, TT V6, and none have the overall character of this unit. It comes down to a mixture of a silky, slightly naughty noise and the fact that even in 6th, at any typical motorway speed, you've an easy, relaxed and hefty punch on tap. It's memorable and rewarding, even though it feels faster than it actually is. It's not perfect though. Change down and you feel as though it hits the rev limiter disappointingly soon. At low revs there is still some labouring, the mapping sometimes feels artificial, and the turbo lag is, well, enormous in the higher gears. But it still gets an A for motive power.
And the engine pretty much defines the experience for the rest of the car - and I mean that in both good and bad ways. It's stable and grippy as a Ford Focus is known to be, but it also sometimes feels surprisingly heavy, which the engine may not help. To me, and probably as a result of this, it didn't seem like there wasn't any feedback at all, although without driving it for longer and having the opportunity to find the limits it's hard to be certain the feedback isn't just hiding away somewhere. In addition to that was the ride which felt strange. It was quickly apparent even from the passenger seat that the front and rear ends behave totally differently - it reminded me of my Mercedes with its current suspension fault that has made the rear suspension incredibly stiff compared to the front. On top of that the suspension seems to be to soft for the initial 10% of movement and stiff thereafter. I suppose you just have to get used to it. The engine's power is well contained in a straight line and there's nothing to worry about in the dry. It's only when a bend comes that a pre-emptive smile is wiped off your face and the ESP cuts off your commands even before you thought you were going to challenge the chassis. I'd like to investigate this area more, too, but don't really fancy it in somebody else's car.
And for the economy stats bores, don't discount too quickly on this either. This example averages a poor 24MPG in normal usage, but that is all in town. Our computer gave us 30.4MPG, on premium unleaded, over the 200 miles there and back, which including the excruciating 90 minute crawl out of the (VIP) Goodwood car park.
... is what I felt about a friend's 2009 ST that I drove back from Goodwood on Sunday. I want to share my experiences, aimed at those who haven't tried one and want to know what they are like. I'll try to give you a feel.
The stand-out aspect of to the experience should come as no surprise for those familiar with the technical specifications, and it is the large engine installed crossways at the front. It's actually a Volvo engine, and those old Volvos always sounded quite good to me which isn't lost here. More than that, though, you can't failto love the strong pull that it has. Don't look at the power figure (222bhp), instead just imagine a large engine, with a turbocharger, in a front wheel drive hatch. Now, I have been able to a few of the similarly powered alternatives - Golf Edition 30, TT 225, Impreza turbo 2000, TT V6, and none have the overall character of this unit. It comes down to a mixture of a silky, slightly naughty noise and the fact that even in 6th, at any typical motorway speed, you've an easy, relaxed and hefty punch on tap. It's memorable and rewarding, even though it feels faster than it actually is. It's not perfect though. Change down and you feel as though it hits the rev limiter disappointingly soon. At low revs there is still some labouring, the mapping sometimes feels artificial, and the turbo lag is, well, enormous in the higher gears. But it still gets an A for motive power.
And the engine pretty much defines the experience for the rest of the car - and I mean that in both good and bad ways. It's stable and grippy as a Ford Focus is known to be, but it also sometimes feels surprisingly heavy, which the engine may not help. To me, and probably as a result of this, it didn't seem like there wasn't any feedback at all, although without driving it for longer and having the opportunity to find the limits it's hard to be certain the feedback isn't just hiding away somewhere. In addition to that was the ride which felt strange. It was quickly apparent even from the passenger seat that the front and rear ends behave totally differently - it reminded me of my Mercedes with its current suspension fault that has made the rear suspension incredibly stiff compared to the front. On top of that the suspension seems to be to soft for the initial 10% of movement and stiff thereafter. I suppose you just have to get used to it. The engine's power is well contained in a straight line and there's nothing to worry about in the dry. It's only when a bend comes that a pre-emptive smile is wiped off your face and the ESP cuts off your commands even before you thought you were going to challenge the chassis. I'd like to investigate this area more, too, but don't really fancy it in somebody else's car.
And for the economy stats bores, don't discount too quickly on this either. This example averages a poor 24MPG in normal usage, but that is all in town. Our computer gave us 30.4MPG, on premium unleaded, over the 200 miles there and back, which including the excruciating 90 minute crawl out of the (VIP) Goodwood car park.
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