When did luxury mainstream cars lose favour?
Discussion
After posting this last night http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... it got me thinking......
I remember when big, luxury cars from manufacturers like Ford, Vauxhall and Rover had class, prestige and status. Big metal like the Granada Ghia X 2.8 estate and the Senator 3.0CD had real street presence and would look right at home in the space reserved for the MD.
There were others, the Monza and Rover Sterling (maybe) even 'top spec' cars like the Carlton CD or Sierra Ghia had something about them
When did that end? Cars like that just don't exist any more, all we are left with is the Mondeo Titanium X and the Vauxhall, erm, Insignia.
I assume a lower entry price for cars like the BMW 3-Series in the nineties killed the mainstream luxury car? Saying that, I guess you could argue that BMW and Audi are the new mainstream.....
I remember when big, luxury cars from manufacturers like Ford, Vauxhall and Rover had class, prestige and status. Big metal like the Granada Ghia X 2.8 estate and the Senator 3.0CD had real street presence and would look right at home in the space reserved for the MD.
There were others, the Monza and Rover Sterling (maybe) even 'top spec' cars like the Carlton CD or Sierra Ghia had something about them
When did that end? Cars like that just don't exist any more, all we are left with is the Mondeo Titanium X and the Vauxhall, erm, Insignia.
I assume a lower entry price for cars like the BMW 3-Series in the nineties killed the mainstream luxury car? Saying that, I guess you could argue that BMW and Audi are the new mainstream.....
Nail on head I think Garlick.
Looking up my street it goes Audi, Audi, BMW, Merc, Audi, Volvo etc etc... most of these people have a second car which is a Ford, Vauxhall, VW etc.
20 or 30 years ago, everyone would have had a Ford, a Vauxhall, or a BL group car wouldnt they?
Everythings moved down a level.
Remember also that Korean cars are filling the gap where you once would have had those newfangled Japanese cars.
Looking up my street it goes Audi, Audi, BMW, Merc, Audi, Volvo etc etc... most of these people have a second car which is a Ford, Vauxhall, VW etc.
20 or 30 years ago, everyone would have had a Ford, a Vauxhall, or a BL group car wouldnt they?
Everythings moved down a level.
Remember also that Korean cars are filling the gap where you once would have had those newfangled Japanese cars.
Garlick said:
After posting this last night http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... it got me thinking......
I remember when big, luxury cars from manufacturers like Ford, Vauxhall and Rover had class, prestige and status. Big metal like the Granada Ghia X 2.8 estate and the Senator 3.0CD had real street presence and would look right at home in the space reserved for the MD.
There were others, the Monza and Rover Sterling (maybe) even 'top spec' cars like the Carlton CD or Sierra Ghia had something about them
When did that end? Cars like that just don't exist any more, all we are left with is the Mondeo Titanium X and the Vauxhall, erm, Insignia.
I assume a lower entry price for cars like the BMW 3-Series in the nineties killed the mainstream luxury car? Saying that, I guess you could argue that BMW and Audi are the new mainstream.....
I'm not sure a Sierrar or Carlton ever had anything other than sales rep or unlucky middle management about them. I've certainly never seen them as desirable or classy.I remember when big, luxury cars from manufacturers like Ford, Vauxhall and Rover had class, prestige and status. Big metal like the Granada Ghia X 2.8 estate and the Senator 3.0CD had real street presence and would look right at home in the space reserved for the MD.
There were others, the Monza and Rover Sterling (maybe) even 'top spec' cars like the Carlton CD or Sierra Ghia had something about them
When did that end? Cars like that just don't exist any more, all we are left with is the Mondeo Titanium X and the Vauxhall, erm, Insignia.
I assume a lower entry price for cars like the BMW 3-Series in the nineties killed the mainstream luxury car? Saying that, I guess you could argue that BMW and Audi are the new mainstream.....
I admit 60's and 70's such as the Rover P6 and even SD1. But they where leather clad, crafted machines with luxury V8's... not a mainstream 4 pot. But then that was the market Rover sold into. By the 80's they had repositioned to a much lower market with the Metro and Rover 200. Prestige is hard to maintain when your core products are now seen as non prestige vehicles.
Also - people now dont want 'luxury'.
They want 'sporty'. Or rather, they want what the general public perceive (wrongly) as 'sporty'.
Which is massive wheels, shiny stuff, rock hard suspension, spoilers.
Back in the times Garlicks talking about, there was a clear distinction between Luxury and sporty - Luxury was the top of the range, the 'sporty' models were not.
They want 'sporty'. Or rather, they want what the general public perceive (wrongly) as 'sporty'.
Which is massive wheels, shiny stuff, rock hard suspension, spoilers.
Back in the times Garlicks talking about, there was a clear distinction between Luxury and sporty - Luxury was the top of the range, the 'sporty' models were not.
300bhp/ton said:
I'm not sure a Sierrar or Carlton ever had anything other than sales rep or unlucky middle management about them. I've certainly never seen them as desirable or classy.
True, but the high end badges did used to mean something, even if only in suburbia. There was a marked difference in the house that had a 1.6 L outside to the one with the 2.0 Ghia on the driveway. Garlick said:
300bhp/ton said:
I'm not sure a Sierrar or Carlton ever had anything other than sales rep or unlucky middle management about them. I've certainly never seen them as desirable or classy.
True, but the high end badges did used to mean something, even if only in suburbia. There was a marked difference in the house that had a 1.6 L outside to the one with the 2.0 Ghia on the driveway. Also, when you consider that even base models nowadays have so much standard equipment, there's maybe not as much scope for variations in models.
I suppose in the 90's the likes of BMW and Audi started to really up the game in terms of quality and design for the entry level 'executive' segment with 3/5 series and A4/A6. Plus lots more people could justify £30k+ on a car thanks to the booming economy. Obviously the abundance of company car schemes/opt-outs and cheap credit made things easier.
Garlick said:
g3org3y said:
Who wants a 'luxury car' without the correct badge?
But people used to want just that, the Ghia or CD badge shown that you were at the top end of the market. That's my question, when did that end? The aforementioned Ghia X Estate oozed class like no other at the time.
Garlick said:
300bhp/ton said:
I'm not sure a Sierrar or Carlton ever had anything other than sales rep or unlucky middle management about them. I've certainly never seen them as desirable or classy.
True, but the high end badges did used to mean something, even if only in suburbia. There was a marked difference in the house that had a 1.6 L outside to the one with the 2.0 Ghia on the driveway. I think what I mean by that is there's no need to sell different model ranges for different markets which simplifies the manufacturers advertising and marketing campaign.
Edited by Pablo16v on Tuesday 12th July 10:08
Times have changed and a BMW shape is easier to spot than a little Ghia badge. Toyota knew this when they launched the Lexus brand.
However I think it’ll all change again soon; did you know that Mercedes will sell you one of their cars even if you have a tattoo? I saw a chap driving one with a skinhead haircut, tattoos on his arm and his hand out the window smoking a cigarette. When I’m considering a new motor car I won’t be choosing one with that class of driver
However I think it’ll all change again soon; did you know that Mercedes will sell you one of their cars even if you have a tattoo? I saw a chap driving one with a skinhead haircut, tattoos on his arm and his hand out the window smoking a cigarette. When I’m considering a new motor car I won’t be choosing one with that class of driver
Garlick said:
300bhp/ton said:
I'm not sure a Sierrar or Carlton ever had anything other than sales rep or unlucky middle management about them. I've certainly never seen them as desirable or classy.
True, but the high end badges did used to mean something, even if only in suburbia. There was a marked difference in the house that had a 1.6 L outside to the one with the 2.0 Ghia on the driveway. I remember when this Executive street of about 40 odd houses was built near me, my mate's M & D bought one, this was in '79-80. I'd cycle to his house all the time car spotting, Granadas were defo the car of choice, he had an Austin Ambassador/Princess and no, it didn,t look out of place. Rover SD1s followed by the Carlton/Senator twins filled the rest of the double garages.
I go down there now in my van to service/repair boilers, it's a "me too" mix of Audi, BM, RR Sport, Minis. The only Fords & Vauxhalls are the kids' (new of course)
I go down there now in my van to service/repair boilers, it's a "me too" mix of Audi, BM, RR Sport, Minis. The only Fords & Vauxhalls are the kids' (new of course)
The ugly Scorpio facelift killed off the Granada. Gradual increases in size haven't helped either. The latest Mondeo is slightly longer than the Mk3 Granada, and the same goes for other ranges - the Insignia is just as big.
Without wishing to dig up a old PH discussion topic, the change in attitudes to leasing vs buying outright has also been a factor. BMW/Merc used to be a significant step up in price from Ford/Vauxhall for an equivalent sized model, but when residual values are factored into lease cost calculations, they become comparable. PCP deals have only really been available since the early 90s (Ford "Options" was one of the first, and that was launched in 1992), as the growing popularity of PCP deals has coincided with the demise of big luxury cars from the volume brands.
If the equivalent to a Granada Scorpio existed today, a foot longer than a Mondeo and with a big petrol engine up front, it would cost a fortune to lease/PCP, the depreciation would be shocking, and the CO2 tax band would be prohibitive to company car drivers.
Without wishing to dig up a old PH discussion topic, the change in attitudes to leasing vs buying outright has also been a factor. BMW/Merc used to be a significant step up in price from Ford/Vauxhall for an equivalent sized model, but when residual values are factored into lease cost calculations, they become comparable. PCP deals have only really been available since the early 90s (Ford "Options" was one of the first, and that was launched in 1992), as the growing popularity of PCP deals has coincided with the demise of big luxury cars from the volume brands.
If the equivalent to a Granada Scorpio existed today, a foot longer than a Mondeo and with a big petrol engine up front, it would cost a fortune to lease/PCP, the depreciation would be shocking, and the CO2 tax band would be prohibitive to company car drivers.
Garlick said:
But people used to want just that, the Ghia or CD badge shown that you were at the top end of the market. That's my question, when did that end?
The aforementioned Ghia X Estate oozed class like no other at the time.
Nothing's changed. It's all in your mind.The aforementioned Ghia X Estate oozed class like no other at the time.
All that's happened is Ghia X and CD have been replaced with M-Sport and S-Line.
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