The £200 Tramp Spec 106 Track Car; its stripped what next?
Discussion
So I have a 106 Quicksilver, its only a 1.4L but i have fully stripped it, only the dash and seats remain. no spare wheel, rear wiper motors, door cards etc etc
It sits very high now as its so light, but it still handles great, like a little go kart, i want to create a 2 seater track toy to learn some track craft in on track days at LLandow, once my confidence has grown i can progress to tracking my M3 daily.
So, i plan to sell the interior and buy some cheap buckets - any recommendations
weld in some strut braces
replace the windows with polycarb sheet?
suspension - new springs
Its fully serviced.
Any cheap suggestions welcome. thanks.
It sits very high now as its so light, but it still handles great, like a little go kart, i want to create a 2 seater track toy to learn some track craft in on track days at LLandow, once my confidence has grown i can progress to tracking my M3 daily.
So, i plan to sell the interior and buy some cheap buckets - any recommendations
weld in some strut braces
replace the windows with polycarb sheet?
suspension - new springs
Its fully serviced.
Any cheap suggestions welcome. thanks.
FamilyDub said:
gentlemangreen said:
I would be looking a discs and pads soon, you obviously want something fairly good when on track
^^ This. If you're leaving the power alone, stopping and handling are always a good place to start.
Sounds great so far!
te crash protection and you're a novice so consider what it will be like if you bump it. I'd also opt for drivers bucket seat - £50 second hand of Ebay or PH.Don't fit sticky tyres - low grip is more fun and you'll learn beyond limit handling at safer speeds. Stickier tyres also stress suspension components more and in an old car you really want to avoid that. That said, get it up on a ramp and check for corrosion on safety critical components.
No need for a rear strut brace, but hopefully you already realise that.
Head down to a scrap yard and pilfer the brakes from a 206 HDI or GTI. They should bolt straight on (sometimes a bit of grinding is needed though) and are the biggest you can fit under 14" rims, assuming you're still using them.
If it's non power steering, rotate the front struts into the 'power steering' position (google it, there should be something about it on the Rallye register) for a bit more feel and sharper turn in.
Get some 106 Rallye steelies, or Citroen C5 steel-a-likes if you can find a pair and don't mind 15s. Both are significantly lighter than the standard alloys, improving steering, handling and acceleration.
Head down to a scrap yard and pilfer the brakes from a 206 HDI or GTI. They should bolt straight on (sometimes a bit of grinding is needed though) and are the biggest you can fit under 14" rims, assuming you're still using them.
If it's non power steering, rotate the front struts into the 'power steering' position (google it, there should be something about it on the Rallye register) for a bit more feel and sharper turn in.
Get some 106 Rallye steelies, or Citroen C5 steel-a-likes if you can find a pair and don't mind 15s. Both are significantly lighter than the standard alloys, improving steering, handling and acceleration.
Enter the Practical Performance Car £999 Challenge at Santa Pod September 16th. You're only allowed to spend £999 the car has to have a valid M.O.T for you to compete. It'll be the best £50 you spend this year. 
Next for your 106 I'd ditch the glass and fit Pollycarbonate windows....
http://youtu.be/VCtEnk7qcZA
...and if you want a pace note portal....
http://youtu.be/jF0-y3pEmpc
... see you there?
Next for your 106 I'd ditch the glass and fit Pollycarbonate windows....
http://youtu.be/VCtEnk7qcZA
...and if you want a pace note portal....
http://youtu.be/jF0-y3pEmpc
... see you there?
unutterable83 said:
So I have a 106 Quicksilver, its only a 1.4L but i have fully stripped it, only the dash and seats remain. no spare wheel, rear wiper motors, door cards etc etc
It sits very high now as its so light, but it still handles great, like a little go kart, i want to create a 2 seater track toy to learn some track craft in on track days at LLandow, once my confidence has grown i can progress to tracking my M3 daily.
So, i plan to sell the interior and buy some cheap buckets - any recommendations
weld in some strut braces
replace the windows with polycarb sheet?
suspension - new springs
Its fully serviced.
Any cheap suggestions welcome. thanks.
Not sure if you need a strut brace, you won't be making enough grip or HP to need them.It sits very high now as its so light, but it still handles great, like a little go kart, i want to create a 2 seater track toy to learn some track craft in on track days at LLandow, once my confidence has grown i can progress to tracking my M3 daily.
So, i plan to sell the interior and buy some cheap buckets - any recommendations
weld in some strut braces
replace the windows with polycarb sheet?
suspension - new springs
Its fully serviced.
Any cheap suggestions welcome. thanks.
I'd look at brakes, suspension, sticky tyres of a more suitable compound, a smaller nicer steering wheel, good seats (buckets) and harnesses and maybe look for a used nitrous kit you could fab up.
Fit the engine out of this......
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-PEUGEOT-406-SRI-TURBO-G...
....in the back.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&am...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1998-PEUGEOT-406-SRI-TURBO-G...
....in the back.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&am...
If you fit bigger brakes on their own you'll probably find that you get:
Less brake fade due to better cooling.
Increased braking distances - or at best they remain the same.
The latter is due to increased wieght transfer under braking. As you transfer more weight to the front, the rears can do less braking and therefore they lock up earlier.
So bigger brakes make absolutely no sense without stiffer, lower suspension. Stiffer suspension will not stop the weight transfer, but it stops body movement, which exacerbates the problem. Going lower will reduce the weight transfer.
Unfortunately, stiffer, lower suspension will also make you corner faster, which means you'll be wanting better brakes.
Either one of these mods is daft without the other.
Less brake fade due to better cooling.
Increased braking distances - or at best they remain the same.
The latter is due to increased wieght transfer under braking. As you transfer more weight to the front, the rears can do less braking and therefore they lock up earlier.
So bigger brakes make absolutely no sense without stiffer, lower suspension. Stiffer suspension will not stop the weight transfer, but it stops body movement, which exacerbates the problem. Going lower will reduce the weight transfer.
Unfortunately, stiffer, lower suspension will also make you corner faster, which means you'll be wanting better brakes.
Either one of these mods is daft without the other.
mikeveal said:
If you fit bigger brakes on their own you'll probably find that you get:
Less brake fade due to better cooling.
Increased braking distances - or at best they remain the same.
The latter is due to increased wieght transfer under braking. As you transfer more weight to the front, the rears can do less braking and therefore they lock up earlier.
So bigger brakes make absolutely no sense without stiffer, lower suspension. Stiffer suspension will not stop the weight transfer, but it stops body movement, which exacerbates the problem. Going lower will reduce the weight transfer.
Unfortunately, stiffer, lower suspension will also make you corner faster, which means you'll be wanting better brakes.
Either one of these mods is daft without the other.
In a stripped out 106 the weight distribution is about 70% front, 30% rear, so any braking effort of the rear wheels is negligible.Less brake fade due to better cooling.
Increased braking distances - or at best they remain the same.
The latter is due to increased wieght transfer under braking. As you transfer more weight to the front, the rears can do less braking and therefore they lock up earlier.
So bigger brakes make absolutely no sense without stiffer, lower suspension. Stiffer suspension will not stop the weight transfer, but it stops body movement, which exacerbates the problem. Going lower will reduce the weight transfer.
Unfortunately, stiffer, lower suspension will also make you corner faster, which means you'll be wanting better brakes.
Either one of these mods is daft without the other.
When the back wheels are barely on the ground under braking anyway I can't see what you're describe being an issue. Maybe just fit a bias valve to stop the rears locking up?
busta said:
In a stripped out 106 the weight distribution is about 70% front, 30% rear, so any braking effort of the rear wheels is negligible.
When the back wheels are barely on the ground under braking anyway I can't see what you're describe being an issue. Maybe just fit a bias valve to stop the rears locking up?
70/30 is presumably not under heavy braking. The more efficient the brakes, the more you'll transfer weight to the front.When the back wheels are barely on the ground under braking anyway I can't see what you're describe being an issue. Maybe just fit a bias valve to stop the rears locking up?
As you transfer weight to the front, the back gets light and locks up, so you need to come off the brakes.
You're absolutely right, fitting a bias valve would stop the back locking up. But think about it, its stopping the back from locking up because the rears are doing less work.
Most manufacturers fit the most effective brakes they can - they are limited by weight transfer. Fitting bigger brakes doesn't achieve anything, what you gain in braking at the front, you lose at the rear.
Fitting better brakes on their own is a fools game, 99 times out of a 100 all you achieve is empting your wallet.
However, better brakes with lower stiffer suspension does work.
doogz said:
Have a look at how the braking system on these cars works.
The higher the rear suspension is sitting, the less pressure is sent to the rear brakes, the harder you press the pedal, the harder the car brakes, the more weight transfers forward, the more the bias of brake pressure moves forward.
Fitting better brakes on an otherwise standard car is pointless though?
On a standard Pug 106? How cool. You live and learn. Thanks for that! The higher the rear suspension is sitting, the less pressure is sent to the rear brakes, the harder you press the pedal, the harder the car brakes, the more weight transfers forward, the more the bias of brake pressure moves forward.
Fitting better brakes on an otherwise standard car is pointless though?
Here's a link that explains the concept i was trying to get over.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_rearbrake_upg...
Put some race brake fluid and pads on the standard brake setup to start with. Something like Castrol SRF and Mintex 1155s are a good combination.
You'll then have consistant and good track braking without fade, which is what you want to concentrate on to start with. You can work on ultimate stopping power once experience and budget requires/allows it.
You'll then have consistant and good track braking without fade, which is what you want to concentrate on to start with. You can work on ultimate stopping power once experience and budget requires/allows it.
If you can stretch to it, a full roll cage not only makes it much safer but it works wonders for the handling because it stiffens the body (a strut brace writ large). True there's the extra weight, but when you want something different you can sell it as a Stock Hatch Championship starter car
mikeveal said:
70/30 is presumably not under heavy braking. The more efficient the brakes, the more you'll transfer weight to the front.
As you transfer weight to the front, the back gets light and locks up, so you need to come off the brakes.
You're absolutely right, fitting a bias valve would stop the back locking up. But think about it, its stopping the back from locking up because the rears are doing less work.
Most manufacturers fit the most effective brakes they can - they are limited by weight transfer. Fitting bigger brakes doesn't achieve anything, what you gain in braking at the front, you lose at the rear.
Fitting better brakes on their own is a fools game, 99 times out of a 100 all you achieve is empting your wallet.
However, better brakes with lower stiffer suspension does work.
I really don't see what you are getting at. If the rears are locking up because of weight transfer, it is as a result of harder braking. You want the rear brakes to do more, but all that will do is lock them up quicker. If the rear brakes are locking up before the front brakes, it's because they are doing too much work, not because they aren't doing enough.As you transfer weight to the front, the back gets light and locks up, so you need to come off the brakes.
You're absolutely right, fitting a bias valve would stop the back locking up. But think about it, its stopping the back from locking up because the rears are doing less work.
Most manufacturers fit the most effective brakes they can - they are limited by weight transfer. Fitting bigger brakes doesn't achieve anything, what you gain in braking at the front, you lose at the rear.
Fitting better brakes on their own is a fools game, 99 times out of a 100 all you achieve is empting your wallet.
However, better brakes with lower stiffer suspension does work.
Under heavy braking, the weight distribution of my car is probably around 90-10 front-rear. So I don't want the rear brakes doing more than 10% of the braking or they'll lock up and i'll get out of shape and probably spin. I have the 206HDI brakes I suggested earlier fitted to the front of my car, and drum brakes from a 1.1 at the back with the original bias valve and it works fine.
And regards your idea that fitting better brakes is a fools game, I'd rather have brakes that can deal with repeated heavy braking from 110mph than ones that just gave up and smelt funny after doing it once, wouldn't you?
Edited by busta on Thursday 14th July 11:11
busta said:
I really don't see what you are getting at.
Read the stoptech site, they explain it far better than I do.busta said:
And regards your idea that fitting better brakes is a fools game, I'd rather have brakes that can deal with repeated heavy braking from 110mph than ones that just gave up and smelt funny after doing it once, wouldn't you?
mikeveal said:
If you fit bigger brakes on their own you'll probably find that you get:
Less brake fade due to better cooling.
Increased braking distances - or at best they remain the same.
Less brake fade due to better cooling.
Increased braking distances - or at best they remain the same.
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