I seem to have a communcation problem with used car dealers
Discussion
Help.
I went to look (only because it was close) at an Alfa 156, 53 reg JTD 8v (130 bhp?) in Derby, advertised in the autotrader.
Now I knew it to be overpriced compared to Parkers, but none of the cars are pricd as per parkers.
Anyway. I started by pointing out a number of bodywork issues, and a problem with the front screen, and the very stiff gear linkage.
I ask him how he came up with the price advertised. Because it's the best you'll find. Hum.
Now I don't want to waste his time with a test drive, because I can see that there are too many issues which make it a very expensive car.
At this point I could go for the test drive, and then I'd be ready to make a low offer, based on a list of faults I can see.
But I have a mental block. The fact that the salesman keeps telling me what a great car it is makes me walk away. Be honest. It's had a hard life.
So I need help. I had occassion to go and buy an indicator bulb and outside the owner of the spares place had a 159. I told him I was looking for a 156 in the same colour and he tells me that he's just part ex'd his with a dealer about 40 miles away. I says oh yes a 2.4 20V and named the dealer. £4K. He brings it up on auto trader.
He got £2800 in PX which is about right, and I reckon it's worth about £3200-£3400 in a dealer. Says it was perfect and he just fancied a change.
So how to approach this ? I want the dealer to know I'm serious but not made of money, not desperate, and not too know it all, and I want him to want to do a deal.
So far all my recent experience is that if you've done your homework they just stonewall.
I think it's me.
I went to look (only because it was close) at an Alfa 156, 53 reg JTD 8v (130 bhp?) in Derby, advertised in the autotrader.
Now I knew it to be overpriced compared to Parkers, but none of the cars are pricd as per parkers.
Anyway. I started by pointing out a number of bodywork issues, and a problem with the front screen, and the very stiff gear linkage.
I ask him how he came up with the price advertised. Because it's the best you'll find. Hum.
Now I don't want to waste his time with a test drive, because I can see that there are too many issues which make it a very expensive car.
At this point I could go for the test drive, and then I'd be ready to make a low offer, based on a list of faults I can see.
But I have a mental block. The fact that the salesman keeps telling me what a great car it is makes me walk away. Be honest. It's had a hard life.
So I need help. I had occassion to go and buy an indicator bulb and outside the owner of the spares place had a 159. I told him I was looking for a 156 in the same colour and he tells me that he's just part ex'd his with a dealer about 40 miles away. I says oh yes a 2.4 20V and named the dealer. £4K. He brings it up on auto trader.
He got £2800 in PX which is about right, and I reckon it's worth about £3200-£3400 in a dealer. Says it was perfect and he just fancied a change.
So how to approach this ? I want the dealer to know I'm serious but not made of money, not desperate, and not too know it all, and I want him to want to do a deal.
So far all my recent experience is that if you've done your homework they just stonewall.
I think it's me.
Matt UK said:
You just wander around it making negative comments, he will just follow making positive comments.
Decide what you think it's worth and open the negotiation with your offer. You'll soon see if the dealer is ready to
talk or let you walk.
+1Decide what you think it's worth and open the negotiation with your offer. You'll soon see if the dealer is ready to
talk or let you walk.
They'll take you seriously when you make them an offer. And you can use your car reviewing experience, both positive and negative to reinforce the credibility of the price you put forward.
Best of luck
crystalmethod said:
Matt UK said:
You just wander around it making negative comments, he will just follow making positive comments.
Decide what you think it's worth and open the negotiation with your offer. You'll soon see if the dealer is ready to
talk or let you walk.
+1Decide what you think it's worth and open the negotiation with your offer. You'll soon see if the dealer is ready to
talk or let you walk.
They'll take you seriously when you make them an offer. And you can use your car reviewing experience, both positive and negative to reinforce the credibility of the price you put forward.
Best of luck
Oh and one question why do they think I'd be impressed by a 3 months warranty ? That's pretty much sale of goods act ? or have I missed the point.
Mr POD said:
Okay I've been doing it in the wrong order so : , ask questions, look at Service history, go for test drive, at this stage make no comment or critism on the car , then make KEEN offer, explain
all the the things that you don't think are up to much, and then get into haggling.
Oh and one question why do they think
I'd be impressed by a 3 months warranty
? That's pretty much sale of goods act ?
or have I missed the point.
Essentially, yes. I'd be inclined to be upbeat and friendly, make a few comments, both positive and negative so they know (i) you know what you're talking about, (ii) you're balanced and reasonable, and (iii) you're serious and informed. all the the things that you don't think are up to much, and then get into haggling.
Oh and one question why do they think
I'd be impressed by a 3 months warranty
? That's pretty much sale of goods act ?
or have I missed the point.
No idea re this particular deal or 3 month warranties. Sorry.
According to a dealer I went to see today "we just sell trade ins at the price we buy them for"... It's bad because the sales guy I had been dealing with to that point had been great, but to hear someone else say something like that made me extremly cautious and clearly they're thinking I'm a mug, which makes me wary that I am missing something else about the car.
I think that often car sales people try to be too 'sales' focussed and not realise that often silence is a good weapon and people usually sell things to themselves (with a little direction).
I think that often car sales people try to be too 'sales' focussed and not realise that often silence is a good weapon and people usually sell things to themselves (with a little direction).
£1200 on a 4k car is about right for a dealer, you may get him down to £3800, but otherwise, once they have valetted it, warrantied it and let it sit there for a month losing £100, it is not worth them selling it for less.
Also, if it is the same car, how come the shop guy says how nice it was, if you say it has had a hard life.
Also, if it is the same car, how come the shop guy says how nice it was, if you say it has had a hard life.
Mr POD said:
Help.
I went to look (only because it was close) at an Alfa 156, 53 reg JTD 8v (130 bhp?) in Derby, advertised in the autotrader.
Now I knew it to be overpriced compared to Parkers, but none of the cars are pricd as per parkers.
Anyway. I started by pointing out a number of bodywork issues, and a problem with the front screen, and the very stiff gear linkage.
I ask him how he came up with the price advertised. Because it's the best you'll find. Hum.
Now I don't want to waste his time with a test drive, because I can see that there are too many issues which make it a very expensive car.
At this point I could go for the test drive, and then I'd be ready to make a low offer, based on a list of faults I can see.
But I have a mental block. The fact that the salesman keeps telling me what a great car it is makes me walk away. Be honest. It's had a hard life.
So I need help. I had occassion to go and buy an indicator bulb and outside the owner of the spares place had a 159. I told him I was looking for a 156 in the same colour and he tells me that he's just part ex'd his with a dealer about 40 miles away. I says oh yes a 2.4 20V and named the dealer. £4K. He brings it up on auto trader.
He got £2800 in PX which is about right, and I reckon it's worth about £3200-£3400 in a dealer. Says it was perfect and he just fancied a change.
So how to approach this ? I want the dealer to know I'm serious but not made of money, not desperate, and not too know it all, and I want him to want to do a deal.
So far all my recent experience is that if you've done your homework they just stonewall.
I think it's me.
It is.I went to look (only because it was close) at an Alfa 156, 53 reg JTD 8v (130 bhp?) in Derby, advertised in the autotrader.
Now I knew it to be overpriced compared to Parkers, but none of the cars are pricd as per parkers.
Anyway. I started by pointing out a number of bodywork issues, and a problem with the front screen, and the very stiff gear linkage.
I ask him how he came up with the price advertised. Because it's the best you'll find. Hum.
Now I don't want to waste his time with a test drive, because I can see that there are too many issues which make it a very expensive car.
At this point I could go for the test drive, and then I'd be ready to make a low offer, based on a list of faults I can see.
But I have a mental block. The fact that the salesman keeps telling me what a great car it is makes me walk away. Be honest. It's had a hard life.
So I need help. I had occassion to go and buy an indicator bulb and outside the owner of the spares place had a 159. I told him I was looking for a 156 in the same colour and he tells me that he's just part ex'd his with a dealer about 40 miles away. I says oh yes a 2.4 20V and named the dealer. £4K. He brings it up on auto trader.
He got £2800 in PX which is about right, and I reckon it's worth about £3200-£3400 in a dealer. Says it was perfect and he just fancied a change.
So how to approach this ? I want the dealer to know I'm serious but not made of money, not desperate, and not too know it all, and I want him to want to do a deal.
So far all my recent experience is that if you've done your homework they just stonewall.
I think it's me.
Stop walking round the car telling him how shyte it is, it's annoying, you'd hate it at sale time too.
Check the car, make an offer, haggle politely, leave your number if you don't come to an agreement.
If there are that many problems with the car, I'd walk. It's not like Alfa only made one of these. There are plenty more out there to look at: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2886369.htm, for example. Okay, it's not a JTD, but looks good for the money, and has 6mth warranty.
One of the biggest mistakes people buying a used car ever make - not remembering that there'll be another one round the corner another day. Spend your time finding the right car, not wasting it fixing a dud.
One of the biggest mistakes people buying a used car ever make - not remembering that there'll be another one round the corner another day. Spend your time finding the right car, not wasting it fixing a dud.
Fast Bug said:
hornetrider said:
Mr GrimNasty said:
You really think a dealer will turn a new stock car over for £400?
Indeed. Cuckoo land springs mind.I suppose I want to have a discussion about the faults. Like if there were stone chips and a couple of gashes on the plastic front bumper, and the dealers tells me, he'll get it resprayed. I'd rather just have the car £150 cheaper. But if I point out the gear linkage is bloody stiff and the handbrake is dodgy, I'd rather them fix it.
Mr POD said:
It's had a hard life.
...Says it was perfect and he just fancied a change.
Why would the previous owner say that if it wasn't true?...Says it was perfect and he just fancied a change.
To be honest, the car is 8 years old - you're buying a banger really. Maybe it's too dear but you can't really expect it not to have a bunch of faults.
Auburn852 said:
If there are that many problems with the car, I'd walk. It's not like Alfa only made one of these. There are plenty more out there to look at: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2886369.htm, for example. Okay, it's not a JTD, but looks good for the money, and has 6mth warranty.
One of the biggest mistakes people buying a used car ever make - not remembering that there'll be another one round the corner another day. Spend your time finding the right car, not wasting it fixing a dud.
That's also massively overpriced.One of the biggest mistakes people buying a used car ever make - not remembering that there'll be another one round the corner another day. Spend your time finding the right car, not wasting it fixing a dud.
However, in reply to the OP - I'd probably not be looking at 2.4s as they're incredibly thirsty for a diesel. 1.9 16v diesels are the pick of the lot as a balance between economy and performance.
So you buy the car for £2800, spend a couple of hundred on parts to replace the worn suspension and a couple of tyres, then you pay someone to fit them, then you valet the car, then you have to warranty the car and of course cover any faults the warranty won't cover because the SOG act insists on it.
Lets just get in to cloud cuckoo land and say that can be done for the sale price of £3200 what about profit? Do you seriously think he's doing it for the love of it? What about costs? Premises, rent, electricity, staffing costs not to mention actually earning a living? Christ when you think about it £4k isn't a bad price if it's a decent example that he's been prepared to pay £2800 for and if the dealer will look after you.
Alternatively go and buy a private car for £3k and take the gamble yourself.
Lets just get in to cloud cuckoo land and say that can be done for the sale price of £3200 what about profit? Do you seriously think he's doing it for the love of it? What about costs? Premises, rent, electricity, staffing costs not to mention actually earning a living? Christ when you think about it £4k isn't a bad price if it's a decent example that he's been prepared to pay £2800 for and if the dealer will look after you.
Alternatively go and buy a private car for £3k and take the gamble yourself.
wildoliver said:
So you buy the car for £2800, spend a couple of hundred on parts to replace the worn suspension and a couple of tyres, then you pay someone to fit them, then you valet the car, then you have to warranty the car and of course cover any faults the warranty won't cover because the SOG act insists on it.
Lets just get in to cloud cuckoo land and say that can be done for the sale price of £3200 what about profit? Do you seriously think he's doing it for the love of it? What about costs? Premises, rent, electricity, staffing costs not to mention actually earning a living? Christ when you think about it £4k isn't a bad price if it's a decent example that he's been prepared to pay £2800 for and if the dealer will look after you.
Alternatively go and buy a private car for £3k and take the gamble yourself.
I feel your pain. Lets just get in to cloud cuckoo land and say that can be done for the sale price of £3200 what about profit? Do you seriously think he's doing it for the love of it? What about costs? Premises, rent, electricity, staffing costs not to mention actually earning a living? Christ when you think about it £4k isn't a bad price if it's a decent example that he's been prepared to pay £2800 for and if the dealer will look after you.
Alternatively go and buy a private car for £3k and take the gamble yourself.
crystalmethod said:
Matt UK said:
You just wander around it making negative comments, he will just follow making positive comments.
Decide what you think it's worth and open the negotiation with your offer. You'll soon see if the dealer is ready to
talk or let you walk.
+1Decide what you think it's worth and open the negotiation with your offer. You'll soon see if the dealer is ready to
talk or let you walk.
They'll take you seriously when you make them an offer. And you can use your car reviewing experience, both positive and negative to reinforce the credibility of the price you put forward.
Best of luck
VeeFour said:
However, in reply to the OP - I'd probably not be looking at 2.4s as they're incredibly thirsty for a diesel. 1.9 16v diesels are the pick of the lot as a balance between economy and performance.
I'm no expert on this engine, but the FIAT 1.9 JTD doesn't seem to have a great reputation for reliability in the Vectra C. But maybe that's just due to the volumes sold compared to the Alfa.
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