E46 M3...talk me out of it
Discussion
It's time for a new car and all I keep obsessing about is an E46 M3! Spare time sat on classifieds and watching youtube videos.
I currently have an Audi A4 2.5tdi quattro sport. I bought it 3 years ago as a "cheap compromise" as I had my heart set on an E46 M3 back then. (I know I know, the only similarities are it has 4 wheels) but I was doing 25-30k miles a year and thought it would see me through with better mpg. I expected 40ish but at best it gets 30mpg on a combined run, which is quite shocking.
I have moved jobs and now walk to work so I now only do 5-10k a year, instead of the 25-30k I was doing back when I bought the diesel dog.
Over the 3 years the A4 has cost me a fortune on repairs to water pump, cooling fan, radiator, air con, suspension, randomly torn insides of tyres, ecu problems and so on... with bills of over £4k on top of the expected servicing and maintenance costs like brakes, cambelt service, tyres. I'm astounded at how unreliable it has been. Now all of the above have been sorted it's a lovely car to drive but it's just been a hassle to get there, and it's not an M3.
I don't want to break the bank so I could only realistically afford an older example but some are going with lowish mileage (70k) for less than £8k from local dealers. But I know some of these are now 9 years old and will have problems of their own. I'm not too bothered about servicing, tyres and so on as I can afford to look after the car but I'm wondering, worst case scenario, if extra things go wrong how bad can things go? Surely no worse than the A4 has been?
I currently have an Audi A4 2.5tdi quattro sport. I bought it 3 years ago as a "cheap compromise" as I had my heart set on an E46 M3 back then. (I know I know, the only similarities are it has 4 wheels) but I was doing 25-30k miles a year and thought it would see me through with better mpg. I expected 40ish but at best it gets 30mpg on a combined run, which is quite shocking.
I have moved jobs and now walk to work so I now only do 5-10k a year, instead of the 25-30k I was doing back when I bought the diesel dog.
Over the 3 years the A4 has cost me a fortune on repairs to water pump, cooling fan, radiator, air con, suspension, randomly torn insides of tyres, ecu problems and so on... with bills of over £4k on top of the expected servicing and maintenance costs like brakes, cambelt service, tyres. I'm astounded at how unreliable it has been. Now all of the above have been sorted it's a lovely car to drive but it's just been a hassle to get there, and it's not an M3.
I don't want to break the bank so I could only realistically afford an older example but some are going with lowish mileage (70k) for less than £8k from local dealers. But I know some of these are now 9 years old and will have problems of their own. I'm not too bothered about servicing, tyres and so on as I can afford to look after the car but I'm wondering, worst case scenario, if extra things go wrong how bad can things go? Surely no worse than the A4 has been?
Sorry to say but any E46 will throw you running bills like that, my 328 has cost about £3k over 3 years and that's with not having to buy M3-specific parts which can be a lot more expensive. That's doing very little mileage !
An E46 M3 was £40-£50k new and you will always have running costs to match.
However .. it's WORTH it !
Get it done.
An E46 M3 was £40-£50k new and you will always have running costs to match.
However .. it's WORTH it !
Get it done.
sjj84 said:
Have a google for subframes cracking on the E46, BMW will repair for free upto 10 years old, unfortunately at the end of the market you are looking you might be over this threshold. If you can find one that's already been done it would be better than one that hasn't.
M3s came out a few years into E46 production, the very earliest on was I think a 2001X BMW GB press demo, first dealer demos and other press cars were Y registered, so there won't be many E46 M3s over ten years old as customer deliveries started in August 2001 and most owners waited until Sep 1st to get the then-new style "51" plate, so you'll stand a very good chance of having the work carried out. On early ones, I can only really recall that the first model year's (2002MY) cars were more prone to timing chain tensioner failure, which is easily prevented by replacing it with the same item from an E30 M3 of all things and most owners either did, or specialist garages will have recommended it as a preventive measure. The running-in service at 1,250 miles is vital for them too as the engine, gearbox and diff oil are changed at that interval for thicker stuff, without that done, the engine oil will have gone to 8-14k miles without a change, the diff oil to the first Inspection 2 service (potentially nearly 60k miles). It's not unheard of for the trade to value cars without that stamp up to £2k lower than one with, or to refuse to buy them at all. All for the sake of what was a £120 service IIRC.
As above, any E46 can generate the sort of bills your A4 has and a rule of thumb for Motorsport cars would be to double the running costs for a regular BMW, owing to the fact that all the wear and tear items and most of the chassis and drive-line is M specific. Running costs for them are commensurate with their new price rather than value today, in common with every other car on the market.
All that said, they are cracking cars when the occasion presents itself and the mood arises. That engine, and specifically the noise it makes between 5-8k is worth the price of admission alone. To improve that aspect if one must, forget the usual route of exhaust, chuck a carbon airbox on it - the S54 is all about induction noise, exhaust merely a nice extra that as a driver you barely notice.
I have a CSL, and the running costs are about the same as a E46 M3. The main item that would require $$$ is probably the valve adjustment during inspection II. The engine oil, diff oil and filters etc are well not expensive as long as you get alternatives. BMW milk you for their OE parts, so unless u are targeting to keep a full service history the M3 is really not expensive to keep. Mind you, you will need to locate one that is not tracked, abused and looked after, otherwise u will be in for lots of bills probably related to the VANOS.
If u are after a civilized cruiser with the family with a edge when u are alone, its a great bargain right now. Get the CS version.
E92 M3 is attracting a different crowd nowadays, ///M fans like me really do not like the E92 M3.
I'm currently looking to change and the E92 M3 just doesn't cut it for me now. Maybe the 2013 turbo version, but the V8 is well, bloated.
If u are after a civilized cruiser with the family with a edge when u are alone, its a great bargain right now. Get the CS version.
E92 M3 is attracting a different crowd nowadays, ///M fans like me really do not like the E92 M3.
I'm currently looking to change and the E92 M3 just doesn't cut it for me now. Maybe the 2013 turbo version, but the V8 is well, bloated.
Edited by digi051669 on Sunday 17th July 17:45
Thanks for the replies. I would be using good local indie rather than BMW for servicing/repairs. Until the A4 i've been a believer that if you look after the car the car will look after you, but this has been like one of those girls who you throw money at and all she's doing is going out shagging on a weekend in the new shoes you bought her.
I've been casually browsing M car enthusiast forums since 2002 and not really seen any issues that are common across the board, other than minor ones and those that have been recalls. I wouldn't be too put off about buying a newer facelift cad D either (depending on the nature of the damage and how long its been running problem free since) as £8k isn't exactly astronomic, and surely most of the depreciation hit will have been taken in the first sale(?)
I know all about their performance as a friend used to have one. He had a CSL style airbox and headers and it sounded awesome. Not sure if he touched the back end of the exhaust or not.
Insurance and tax and servicing all cost exactly the same as the A4, which is even more cringeworthy for a 3.2 straight 6 with 343bhp vs a 2.5tdi with 180bhp.
I'm just looking around and comparing against other cars, seeing what's out there for your money and wondering if it's all too good to be true. I guess they look a bit dated now but I still stop on the streets if one passes by. When I started uni 9 years ago I set an M3 as my personal reward. At some point I will own one so I'm thinking why not now? No kids, no wife = no responsibilities yet...
ETA I know a lot of people rate the Alpina as good if not better than the M3 but they just don't do it for me. I must have a bit of chav in me somewhere waiting to get out that only the M3 can exorcise.
I've been casually browsing M car enthusiast forums since 2002 and not really seen any issues that are common across the board, other than minor ones and those that have been recalls. I wouldn't be too put off about buying a newer facelift cad D either (depending on the nature of the damage and how long its been running problem free since) as £8k isn't exactly astronomic, and surely most of the depreciation hit will have been taken in the first sale(?)
I know all about their performance as a friend used to have one. He had a CSL style airbox and headers and it sounded awesome. Not sure if he touched the back end of the exhaust or not.
Insurance and tax and servicing all cost exactly the same as the A4, which is even more cringeworthy for a 3.2 straight 6 with 343bhp vs a 2.5tdi with 180bhp.
I'm just looking around and comparing against other cars, seeing what's out there for your money and wondering if it's all too good to be true. I guess they look a bit dated now but I still stop on the streets if one passes by. When I started uni 9 years ago I set an M3 as my personal reward. At some point I will own one so I'm thinking why not now? No kids, no wife = no responsibilities yet...
ETA I know a lot of people rate the Alpina as good if not better than the M3 but they just don't do it for me. I must have a bit of chav in me somewhere waiting to get out that only the M3 can exorcise.
Edited by nanafagis on Sunday 17th July 19:13
nanafagis said:
Insurance and tax and servicing all cost exactly the same as the A4, which is even more cringeworthy for a 3.2 straight 6 with 343bhp vs a 2.5tdi with 180bhp.
I suggest you do the maths again because this simply isn't true. Inspection 1 and 2 services on the E46 M3 are particularly expensive - reputable indys and main dealers offering the value servicing range will charge £650ish for I1 and £800 for I2. You can get this cheaper again by using some of the lesser known indys but never is it going to cost the same as an A4 diesel to service.The main reason for the cost is the fact the valve clearances are part of both Inspection services.
I've had one for the last 3 years and 50k miles. It's been great but did cost me a fair bit when it was around 40k miles. Around that time it needed a new alternator, new rear trailing arm bushes, new springs and a new front wishbone (all common faults around that mileage).
Mine's done over 80k miles now and has been pretty reliable. It needed another set of rear springs a couple of months ago (£200 for genuine BMW ones).
They do get through tyres though. Rears only last about 10-12k miles. A set of 4 Continentals is £850-900 or around a grand for Michelins.
I always have mine serviced at the local BMW main agent, mainly 'cos there aren't any good Indys around here. I pay about £200 for an oil service, £700 for Inspection I, £900 for an Inspection 2.
They only need an Ins 1 or Ins 2 every 25,000 or so, so it's not too bad.
According to the dash I get around 26-27MPG but if I actually work it out (miles per tank full) I only really get about 22 mpg.
Mine's done over 80k miles now and has been pretty reliable. It needed another set of rear springs a couple of months ago (£200 for genuine BMW ones).
They do get through tyres though. Rears only last about 10-12k miles. A set of 4 Continentals is £850-900 or around a grand for Michelins.
I always have mine serviced at the local BMW main agent, mainly 'cos there aren't any good Indys around here. I pay about £200 for an oil service, £700 for Inspection I, £900 for an Inspection 2.
They only need an Ins 1 or Ins 2 every 25,000 or so, so it's not too bad.
According to the dash I get around 26-27MPG but if I actually work it out (miles per tank full) I only really get about 22 mpg.
I had one - loved it - but I got rid after finally getting sick of the number of sh*tty 3-ers I saw sporting stick on wing-vents, M3 rims etc. Get one, by all means, but be ready for people to ask you 'what's your replica based on?' and 'is it real?'
That said, I loved it, it was an awesome drive and really comfortable. Utterly mental engine, great noise!
That said, I loved it, it was an awesome drive and really comfortable. Utterly mental engine, great noise!
I had one in 2008, and ran it for 10 months, I sold it for one reason, the total of the bills it generated were eyewatering, and I'll be honest ive only JUST financially recovered properly from owning the car,
Servicing £900 for Insp 2
Lower arms were £300 each IIRC and it needed both
Rear trailing arm bushes needed done £250
Steering rack replacement £1800
Exhaust was broken (rotten clamps very common) £1400 for aftermarket system
Rear coil springs broke £180 for lowering kit
Wheels needed refurbed £350
Tyres 4x Michelin PS2 £1100
The above is the tip of the iceberg all on a two owner 40,000 mile car with FBMWSH, that was bought for 21k
I'd honestly dread to think what like an £8k example was like, I would never have another as at the time there was a few of my friends that had them, we all had similar bills for our cars, so it wasn't just me that experienced it.
Servicing £900 for Insp 2
Lower arms were £300 each IIRC and it needed both
Rear trailing arm bushes needed done £250
Steering rack replacement £1800
Exhaust was broken (rotten clamps very common) £1400 for aftermarket system
Rear coil springs broke £180 for lowering kit
Wheels needed refurbed £350
Tyres 4x Michelin PS2 £1100
The above is the tip of the iceberg all on a two owner 40,000 mile car with FBMWSH, that was bought for 21k
I'd honestly dread to think what like an £8k example was like, I would never have another as at the time there was a few of my friends that had them, we all had similar bills for our cars, so it wasn't just me that experienced it.
With any car you can have big bills.
I'm not sure many people would be taking that vintage of car and value to a main dealer over an independant specialist.
The other thing I am noticing is that people who buy these now at the lower end do complain about running costs however the ones mentioned are pretty much down to age or normal costs for c£43k car not an £8k super mini.
So you know the cost of the main dealer services so clearly aim to buy one with the big items just done and the more age related items. If you cannot afford or would wince at the thought of some of the costs mentioned then that's probably a good hint for you. Note there is nothing wrong with the E36m3 cheaper running costs and if you buy one at the £8k mark your going to buy a minter
I'm not sure many people would be taking that vintage of car and value to a main dealer over an independant specialist.
The other thing I am noticing is that people who buy these now at the lower end do complain about running costs however the ones mentioned are pretty much down to age or normal costs for c£43k car not an £8k super mini.
So you know the cost of the main dealer services so clearly aim to buy one with the big items just done and the more age related items. If you cannot afford or would wince at the thought of some of the costs mentioned then that's probably a good hint for you. Note there is nothing wrong with the E36m3 cheaper running costs and if you buy one at the £8k mark your going to buy a minter
Fox- said:
I suggest you do the maths again because this simply isn't true. Inspection 1 and 2 services on the E46 M3 are particularly expensive - reputable indys and main dealers offering the value servicing range will charge £650ish for I1 and £800 for I2. You can get this cheaper again by using some of the lesser known indys but never is it going to cost the same as an A4 diesel to service.
The main reason for the cost is the fact the valve clearances are part of both Inspection services.
Cheers, I know about the big services. I do 1/3 the mileage I used to so I won't be clocking up past the 25k, 50k markers or whatever they are as quickly as I have been but will be doing oil, filter, brakes and so on in between those intervals. Put it this way, I'll be servicing by date before mileage for the first time ever. In the past few years I've hit cambelt changes twice which cost £550 each time. The main reason for the cost is the fact the valve clearances are part of both Inspection services.
If you could stretch your budget to about 11K, 335i's are within your price range.........
Also, I know it's no M3 but its also a corking good car - Reasonable Audi S4's are also available for this money....... great Q car.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...
Also, I know it's no M3 but its also a corking good car - Reasonable Audi S4's are also available for this money....... great Q car.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...
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