Not another which car thread, fabia vrs etc.
Discussion
Hello everyone
sorry if this is repetitive or there has been a similar thread before, but i could not get the search function to work for me.
Basically, i am a 20 year old student with 1 year NCB (between 17 and 18, as have had no car while at uni for the past 2 years) Although as of september i will be on an industrial placement year, and as such will be needing a car for a relatively long commute, mainly motorway miles.
I've been looking at warm(ish) diesel hatchbacks, as to me these seem ideal. 50-60mpg, cheap tax, cheapish insurance, bags of torque, relatively fun to drive.
I probably have a budget of about 5000, with another 1500 or so for insurance. With a criteria of: quite cheap to run, relatively fast (to me anyway), good for covering the miles, nice looking.
This may be a bit too much to ask, but as good a compromise of the above would be ideal.
So far i have been looking at
Fabia Vrs
GrandePunto 1.9 Multijet
Astra 1.9 cdti
Leon 1.9tdi cupra
If anyone has any other suggestions, or can offer real world experience of owning and driving any of the above it would be much appreciated.
George
sorry if this is repetitive or there has been a similar thread before, but i could not get the search function to work for me.
Basically, i am a 20 year old student with 1 year NCB (between 17 and 18, as have had no car while at uni for the past 2 years) Although as of september i will be on an industrial placement year, and as such will be needing a car for a relatively long commute, mainly motorway miles.
I've been looking at warm(ish) diesel hatchbacks, as to me these seem ideal. 50-60mpg, cheap tax, cheapish insurance, bags of torque, relatively fun to drive.
I probably have a budget of about 5000, with another 1500 or so for insurance. With a criteria of: quite cheap to run, relatively fast (to me anyway), good for covering the miles, nice looking.
This may be a bit too much to ask, but as good a compromise of the above would be ideal.
So far i have been looking at
Fabia Vrs
GrandePunto 1.9 Multijet
Astra 1.9 cdti
Leon 1.9tdi cupra
If anyone has any other suggestions, or can offer real world experience of owning and driving any of the above it would be much appreciated.
George
Personally I wouldn't touch another Vauxhall Diesel after 2 bad experiences and hearing horror stories.
I would go with the VAG cars as I had a Leon 130 TDI which I liked a lot and would recommend. The 130 version is a bit more difficult to find but much cheaper to insure than the Cupra version. Plus it still has the nice touches like sports seats, white dials, climate control, etc and lots of poke from 20 to 70mph really, not as much power from 70+ as the Cupra though but IMO the difference in performance doesn't justify the purchase cost and insurance difference.
Seat Ibiza tdi Cupra/FR? (not sure of the exact model, but the 130 diesel engine) might be worth a look as well. Same kind of package as the Fabia but cheaper to buy.
Don't pay silly money though - a lot of cars are on ebay/autotrade for like 5k on 2004 plate which is crazy IMO. I paid 3295 my 2004 leon in 2010, sold it a month ago for £2750 with the clutch on its last legs. You should get something nice for 4k, insurance 1500 - 2k IMO.
I would go with the VAG cars as I had a Leon 130 TDI which I liked a lot and would recommend. The 130 version is a bit more difficult to find but much cheaper to insure than the Cupra version. Plus it still has the nice touches like sports seats, white dials, climate control, etc and lots of poke from 20 to 70mph really, not as much power from 70+ as the Cupra though but IMO the difference in performance doesn't justify the purchase cost and insurance difference.
Seat Ibiza tdi Cupra/FR? (not sure of the exact model, but the 130 diesel engine) might be worth a look as well. Same kind of package as the Fabia but cheaper to buy.
Don't pay silly money though - a lot of cars are on ebay/autotrade for like 5k on 2004 plate which is crazy IMO. I paid 3295 my 2004 leon in 2010, sold it a month ago for £2750 with the clutch on its last legs. You should get something nice for 4k, insurance 1500 - 2k IMO.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 31st July 11:27
Edited by VolvoT5 on Sunday 31st July 11:28
I am looking at pretty much the same cars at the moment. I am just a little worried about the PD130s (and other similar diesels) - if they go wrong, it seems they can go very wrong and cost you a lot. Is this just me worrying too much? I had a look at a Fabia vRS which I think may have had a DMF issue.
As stated before, Ibiza FR TDI / TDI Sport 130s are worth a look, they can often be cheaper than vRSes.
As stated before, Ibiza FR TDI / TDI Sport 130s are worth a look, they can often be cheaper than vRSes.
visual123 said:
I am looking at pretty much the same cars at the moment. I am just a little worried about the PD130s (and other similar diesels) - if they go wrong, it seems they can go very wrong and cost you a lot. Is this just me worrying too much? I had a look at a Fabia vRS which I think may have had a DMF issue.
As stated before, Ibiza FR TDI / TDI Sport 130s are worth a look, they can often be cheaper than vRSes.
Whats DMF?As stated before, Ibiza FR TDI / TDI Sport 130s are worth a look, they can often be cheaper than vRSes.
DPF were not fitted to the Fabia VRS, I know they cause problems in the latest version of the Octavia VRS TDI.
06 plate Fabias had a hessitation problem i seem to recall. Skoda changed the map from 06 slightly, it has a tiny increase in MPG.
Mine had a rear wiper hose burst and the thermostat seal leaked. both common problems.
9e0r9e said:
If anyone has any other suggestions, or can offer real world experience of owning and driving any of the above it would be much appreciated.
You mention fun as a criteria. Spend around £3k on something with a proper engine and the difference in fuel. You will have a nicer smoother car to live with, less expensive bits to replace, and won't have to wear silly gloves at the petrol station.
You are 20, and long(ish) commute or not its far too early in life to give up on driving enjoyment.
Chrisw666 said:
You mention fun as a criteria.
Spend around £3k on something with a proper engine and the difference in fuel. You will have a nicer smoother car to live with, less expensive bits to replace, and won't have to wear silly gloves at the petrol station.
You are 20, and long(ish) commute or not its far too early in life to give up on driving enjoyment.
I disagree with this - what petrol car fits all his criteria any better or even equally then?Spend around £3k on something with a proper engine and the difference in fuel. You will have a nicer smoother car to live with, less expensive bits to replace, and won't have to wear silly gloves at the petrol station.
You are 20, and long(ish) commute or not its far too early in life to give up on driving enjoyment.
OP, I think your own post perfectly summarises the practical advantages of the cars you mentioned. I have had a Fabia VRS for over two years and it is *relatively* fun compared to its petrol competitors in that it's a very torquey engine in a small car, although not the best handling in standard form. Yes petrol hot hatches are quicker on paper and are far more PH but it's perfect for a younger driver with a long commute as driving it feels effortless with 50+mpg achievable even when pushing on, bags of grunt for motorway manouvres and is comfortable to drive and insurance and tax is very reasonable. Take out a warranty if you're worried about expensive failures which there is the potential for, but I think it's pretty widely accepted that the VAG PD lumps are more reliable than the newer CR units. Out of the cars you mention I'd have the best example of a VRS you can afford - I admit try and find one with leather as the cloth grey trim gets scruffy quickly and is my least liked aspect of the car.
Edited by vrsmxtb on Sunday 31st July 22:20
I used to own an Exotica Red Grande Punto 1.9 M'Jet Sporting [130] and I loved it.
Ok, we're not talking Audi-level quality of interior but it was a nice place to be and I'd have one again.
I drove everywhere like my hair was on fire and it refused to return less than 45mpg combined, so I'm sure with a modicum of restraint 50-60 would be achieveable. Group 6 insurance too.
C'mon, gotta be nicer than the vRS and more comfy than the SEAT:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3040859.htm
Ok, we're not talking Audi-level quality of interior but it was a nice place to be and I'd have one again.
I drove everywhere like my hair was on fire and it refused to return less than 45mpg combined, so I'm sure with a modicum of restraint 50-60 would be achieveable. Group 6 insurance too.
C'mon, gotta be nicer than the vRS and more comfy than the SEAT:-
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3040859.htm
Edited by FamilyDub on Sunday 31st July 22:33
vrsmxtb said:
I disagree with this - what petrol car fits all his criteria any better or even equally then?
All of them. People who need torque to be able to derive enjoyment from otherwise fairly mundane cars need to drive something that handles and rewards a driver for putting a bit of effort and commitment in to the experience.
If I was after hot-hatch to do the job in the OP i would throw £2-3k at a Clio 172 or 172 cup and the rest at decent tyres and petrol, the car would still manage 30mpg on a run if driven slowly and wouldn't bore you on twisties. If I didn't want a hot hatch I would go for something turbo charged and swedish or a 6 cylinder BMW 3 or 5 series at a similar price point.
Tried a small nippy diesel which had decent performance for 1500 rpm in 3 gears, went round corners well but wasn't as much fun as a petrol with similar power could be, and to cope with the boat anchor over the front axle suspension is either wallowy and crap or so hard the car irritates you when your not pushing on.
Chrisw666 said:
All of them.
People who need torque to be able to derive enjoyment from otherwise fairly mundane cars need to drive something that handles and rewards a driver for putting a bit of effort and commitment in to the experience.
If I was after hot-hatch to do the job in the OP i would throw £2-3k at a Clio 172 or 172 cup and the rest at decent tyres and petrol, the car would still manage 30mpg on a run if driven slowly and wouldn't bore you on twisties. If I didn't want a hot hatch I would go for something turbo charged and swedish or a 6 cylinder BMW 3 or 5 series at a similar price point.
Tried a small nippy diesel which had decent performance for 1500 rpm in 3 gears, went round corners well but wasn't as much fun as a petrol with similar power could be, and to cope with the boat anchor over the front axle suspension is either wallowy and crap or so hard the car irritates you when your not pushing on.
Fair play - that's why I have a RWD petrol car number two People who need torque to be able to derive enjoyment from otherwise fairly mundane cars need to drive something that handles and rewards a driver for putting a bit of effort and commitment in to the experience.
If I was after hot-hatch to do the job in the OP i would throw £2-3k at a Clio 172 or 172 cup and the rest at decent tyres and petrol, the car would still manage 30mpg on a run if driven slowly and wouldn't bore you on twisties. If I didn't want a hot hatch I would go for something turbo charged and swedish or a 6 cylinder BMW 3 or 5 series at a similar price point.
Tried a small nippy diesel which had decent performance for 1500 rpm in 3 gears, went round corners well but wasn't as much fun as a petrol with similar power could be, and to cope with the boat anchor over the front axle suspension is either wallowy and crap or so hard the car irritates you when your not pushing on.
I still think the VRS is a great small, practical car though if the fuel type / power delivery doesn't bother you.
Edited by vrsmxtb on Sunday 31st July 23:00
Insurance can be a problem though. I'm 21 and whilst I can insure a Fabia vRS for around £800, it's double that for a Clio 172, or £1200 for an E36 323i and £1400 for an S60 T5, for example. That includes Confusing the Meerkat. I suppose you would just have to offset this against the possibly higher maintenance costs of the vRS.
That's a massive difference of insurance.
C£700 per year that's a cambelt and new discs and pads each year on the fabia... Or
Year one cambelt tensioners water pump and new pads and discs all round
Year 2 new shocks all round
Year 3 new radiator and major service new coolant new brake fluid new clutch
By end of year 3 you will have a car that is in perfect nick.
Year 4. New battery and fully drain the fuel tank get out the gunk at the bottom of it
Year 5 new OEM exhaust
Year 6 leather interior replacing STD interior
Year 7 new windscreen number plates kick plates and new mats inside
Year 8 new door cards if they are shabby
Of course you don't need to do the above just what is needed. Plus when you come to sell that is a car which would be immaculate.
C£700 per year that's a cambelt and new discs and pads each year on the fabia... Or
Year one cambelt tensioners water pump and new pads and discs all round
Year 2 new shocks all round
Year 3 new radiator and major service new coolant new brake fluid new clutch
By end of year 3 you will have a car that is in perfect nick.
Year 4. New battery and fully drain the fuel tank get out the gunk at the bottom of it
Year 5 new OEM exhaust
Year 6 leather interior replacing STD interior
Year 7 new windscreen number plates kick plates and new mats inside
Year 8 new door cards if they are shabby
Of course you don't need to do the above just what is needed. Plus when you come to sell that is a car which would be immaculate.
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