Cars and the green debate.
Discussion
Well we can be sure that neither cows nor cars are going to go away.
The manufacturers will do what they are regulated to do as far as making cars more efficient in terms of carbon.
Cows will continue to fart.
I will continue to drive my TVR until, a small efficient power cell is developed, at which point maybe my Speed6 gets replaced and the exhaust howl is simply a recording of what it used to sound like "in the good old days".
I was reading a flight magazine a few days ago which showed how many kg per passenger various jet airliners kick out each flight...........Oh my god the figures were incredible.
Every where you go in the US the AirCon is running full pelt. I've stayed in hotels in Southern States where you need to put your jacket on in the lobby and bar as its that cold, while outside its a sultry 95°F.
In my Japanese hotel bathroom I sit reading the control instruction for my bog, the last part of which explains how to control the seat temperature.
How many TV's does an American Sports bar need. They pump out every channel while at the back theres a shed load of heat comming out but hey no problem just turn the AC a bit higher to compensate.
Cars are the last of our problems.
The manufacturers will do what they are regulated to do as far as making cars more efficient in terms of carbon.
Cows will continue to fart.
I will continue to drive my TVR until, a small efficient power cell is developed, at which point maybe my Speed6 gets replaced and the exhaust howl is simply a recording of what it used to sound like "in the good old days".
I was reading a flight magazine a few days ago which showed how many kg per passenger various jet airliners kick out each flight...........Oh my god the figures were incredible.
Every where you go in the US the AirCon is running full pelt. I've stayed in hotels in Southern States where you need to put your jacket on in the lobby and bar as its that cold, while outside its a sultry 95°F.
In my Japanese hotel bathroom I sit reading the control instruction for my bog, the last part of which explains how to control the seat temperature.
How many TV's does an American Sports bar need. They pump out every channel while at the back theres a shed load of heat comming out but hey no problem just turn the AC a bit higher to compensate.
Cars are the last of our problems.
Over what period was that 10% valid.
For example - If I own the same car for ten years, but the Jones next door replace their car every 2 years, Their carbon footprint is five times larger than mine.
Let's hope they haven't taken the amount of cars in the UK and just divided it up between the amount of people in the UK.
For example - If I own the same car for ten years, but the Jones next door replace their car every 2 years, Their carbon footprint is five times larger than mine.
Let's hope they haven't taken the amount of cars in the UK and just divided it up between the amount of people in the UK.
oh god. Here we go again.
I'm too busy to really go into all this, and past experience has shown no one will listen anyway but..
Ironic that the OP is annoyed about poor research and then says things like 'Cows absorb a lot of water' well, they do but it doesn't vanish....it's not like cows are drinking water, and we never get it back. It's all part of the water cycle, very little (none?) is created or destroyed. There's a similar thing going on with the carbon cycle, cows don't magic CO2 out of no where. They do manufacture it, but it's not the same as how a car really does magic new CO2 from nowhere.
Again, if someone buys a car every 2 years, but you keep yours for 10 they don't have 5 times your CO2 emissions due to car manufacture. Well done for realising that manufacturing a car creates massive amounts of pollutants but still, their car doesn't disappear after the two years...it'll go on to someone else and stop them buying a new car. If they really look after, and do low miles, in their car but you wreck yours and do 200,000 miles in yours well, after ten years you might have caused more brand new cars to be built then they have.
Cars are targeted because the stats say it should be easy for people to cut down their emissions due to driving cars. Personally, I think air travel should be hit (I reckon a higher proportion of air travel is for pleasure then car trips) but hey.
Both sides are guilty of this creative fact presentation though.
ETA: just to add, yes of course farming does create CO2, and yes, if everyone went vegeterian there would be less CO2 but it's less the cows and more the associated 'costs'.
I'm too busy to really go into all this, and past experience has shown no one will listen anyway but..
Ironic that the OP is annoyed about poor research and then says things like 'Cows absorb a lot of water' well, they do but it doesn't vanish....it's not like cows are drinking water, and we never get it back. It's all part of the water cycle, very little (none?) is created or destroyed. There's a similar thing going on with the carbon cycle, cows don't magic CO2 out of no where. They do manufacture it, but it's not the same as how a car really does magic new CO2 from nowhere.
Again, if someone buys a car every 2 years, but you keep yours for 10 they don't have 5 times your CO2 emissions due to car manufacture. Well done for realising that manufacturing a car creates massive amounts of pollutants but still, their car doesn't disappear after the two years...it'll go on to someone else and stop them buying a new car. If they really look after, and do low miles, in their car but you wreck yours and do 200,000 miles in yours well, after ten years you might have caused more brand new cars to be built then they have.
Cars are targeted because the stats say it should be easy for people to cut down their emissions due to driving cars. Personally, I think air travel should be hit (I reckon a higher proportion of air travel is for pleasure then car trips) but hey.
Both sides are guilty of this creative fact presentation though.
ETA: just to add, yes of course farming does create CO2, and yes, if everyone went vegeterian there would be less CO2 but it's less the cows and more the associated 'costs'.
Edited by varsas on Tuesday 2nd August 08:20
Well, until he can find a visible human warming signal that is indistinguishable from zero, in global climate data, tell him to poke it. 
Oh, and while you're at it, ask him just how much (or little) CO2 he would like in the atmosphere. Wonder if he even knows how little is in the atmosphere right now? (0.039% / 390ppmv)
Oh, and while you're at it, ask him just how much (or little) CO2 he would like in the atmosphere. Wonder if he even knows how little is in the atmosphere right now? (0.039% / 390ppmv)
V88Dicky said:
Well, until he can find a visible human warming signal that is indistinguishable from zero, in global climate data, tell him to poke it.
Oh, and while you're at it, ask him just how much (or little) CO2 he would like in the atmosphere. Wonder if he even knows how little is in the atmosphere right now? (0.039% / 390ppmv)
argh! So if I injected you so that your blood stream was 0.039% snake venom you'd be OK with that? After all, it's such a small amount...ok, ok snake venom is an outside pollutant, CO2 is not...then lets say if I made the lead content inside you that much...you have lead in you right now...i'm just changing the level a bit....no harm, right?Oh, and while you're at it, ask him just how much (or little) CO2 he would like in the atmosphere. Wonder if he even knows how little is in the atmosphere right now? (0.039% / 390ppmv)
varsas said:
oh god. Here we go again.
Again, if someone buys a car every 2 years, but you keep yours for 10 they don't have 5 times your CO2 emissions due to car manufacture. Well done for realising that manufacturing a car creates massive amounts of pollutants but still, their car doesn't disappear after the two years...it'll go on to someone else and stop them buying a new car. If they really look after, and do low miles, in their car but you wreck yours and do 200,000 miles in yours well, after ten years you might have caused more brand new cars to be built then they have.
I stand by my statement - Their footprint due to manufacturing will be five times larger than mine, they also will in effect have caused 5 times more waste than me at the vehicle end of life.Again, if someone buys a car every 2 years, but you keep yours for 10 they don't have 5 times your CO2 emissions due to car manufacture. Well done for realising that manufacturing a car creates massive amounts of pollutants but still, their car doesn't disappear after the two years...it'll go on to someone else and stop them buying a new car. If they really look after, and do low miles, in their car but you wreck yours and do 200,000 miles in yours well, after ten years you might have caused more brand new cars to be built then they have.
I'm just putting a point across - personal I think it's all hot air.
nickythesaint said:
Lots of stuff...
All valid, I'm sure, but misses the point.The powers-that-be aren't interested in saving the planet, they're interested in collecting taxes. Motorists are an easy target for this so they'll never address the other things. If the government truly wanted us to cut our CO2 emissions there would be a wonderful public transport system and factual education about the comparative environmental damage of manufacturing a new car versus continuing to drive an old one. The fact is, if they achieved widespread awareness based on the truth they'd lose so much in revenue they'd be stuffed. They want to do just enough to convince us to think that they care about the planet so they can justify the draconian taxes that they like to impose on motorists, but they don't actually want to change things because if they did they'd have to find an alternative way to syphon money out of our pockets.
varsas said:
V88Dicky said:
Well, until he can find a visible human warming signal that is indistinguishable from zero, in global climate data, tell him to poke it.
Oh, and while you're at it, ask him just how much (or little) CO2 he would like in the atmosphere. Wonder if he even knows how little is in the atmosphere right now? (0.039% / 390ppmv)
argh! So if I injected you so that your blood stream was 0.039% snake venom you'd be OK with that? After all, it's such a small amount...ok, ok snake venom is an outside pollutant, CO2 is not...then lets say if I made the lead content inside you that much...you have lead in you right now...i'm just changing the level a bit....no harm, right?Oh, and while you're at it, ask him just how much (or little) CO2 he would like in the atmosphere. Wonder if he even knows how little is in the atmosphere right now? (0.039% / 390ppmv)
Are you on crack?
CO2 is a trace gas, barely detectable in atmosphere, VITAL to all life on Earth. It is not pollution. We are actually at historically low levels of atmospheric CO2, it's been way higher in the past, yet temperatures at the time were similar to today.
There is a long running and quite interesting green/ climate debate running here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It might be wise to incorporate the two to keep the thinking in one place? See how it goes.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It might be wise to incorporate the two to keep the thinking in one place? See how it goes.
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