Selling a car to a friend - A story in pictures
Discussion
Now I am sorry to instantly dissapoint those of you here excepting to see gratuitious images of one of my old cars driven into my new car by my best mate as it hasn't happened - yet!
Was just looking to get the general PH consensus on selling a car you have owned, used and abused for a number of years to one of your best mates. If anyone has any horror stories now is the time to share so I can tell my friend to shove his rather generous offer. The situation is as follows...
I have owned this for coming up to 3 years now...
A Rover VVC Tomcat that has served me well as a wonderful motorway hack to transport myself + serious tonnage of washing between uni and home in comfort and (well I was going to say style but it's a rover..), It also turns out that without the heavy turbo lump in the front of this car and with a few suspension mods it is not too bad round the twisty bits and has enough power to bring a smile to the face, albeit with constant attention to stiring the gearstick to keep it on the boil.
It does however have it's bad points now as 3 years of being a skint student have taken its toll on the poor girl.
Appaulingly long brake pedal travel - even with all new fluid and decent amount of meat left on both front and rear pads.
ABS Fault due to incorrect reluctor ring on nearside rear hub after I replaced a trailing arm.
Cosmetic rust bubbling on boot skin, all wheel arches and around side repeaters
Dodgy laquer after first respray attempt on nearside side repeater
Noisy/Squeaky alternator belt
Rocker gasket oil leak
Cracked windscreen (although not an MOT fail)
Usual Bubbling on bootlid spoiler
Corroded alloys that need a refurb
Sounds bad doesn't it but the car doesn't look half bad after a wash, has 12 months MOT, lovely interior and its mechanically sound. Its just turned 99,000miles old today and I am confident that without really any expenditure other than service items it has atleast another 50,000 in it before it would be off to the scrapyard in the sky.
Having said that, as good as the car is the value of these has plummeted even further since I bought it and I think I would be lucky to get 600 for it with all the niggles it has. They seem to be VERY hard to sell despite being in my opinion, great cars.
Now my friend drives this wee beasty:
(Dab of oppo courtesy of moi, on private land OBVIOUSLY
)
A MkII Golf Driver that is also a bit battlescared after 4 years of doing the Sheffield-Bham washing route and surviving countless blats through the Peak district. He has owned this since he started driving and although I would hardly describe it as his pride and joy as he uses the poor old girl as she was intended, I do believe he genuinely loves the car and now we have graduated has big plans to return it to its former original glory and maybe drop in a 16V Gti lump but keep everything else fairly sensible.
In order to do this he needs another car that he can commute to work in and generally use as a runabout, and originally he was planning on a VVC MGF, but has now made a quite serious and "good" offer pricewise (circa 750) on the Tomcat as he knows it has been properly looked after from a mechanical standpoint but is just a bit scrappy. Problem is that he, like myself, won't get paid until the end of September and needs the car now. So would be paying me a token deposit (say 100 pounds) until his first pay day when he would be able to settle the balance. I totally understand this as I am in exactly the same situation and he is one of my closest friends. This is obviously on the understanding that if he prangs it between then and now he still has to pay me the agreed amount in full and the car is sold as seen, I won't have him coming to me saying this has broken and this is on it's way out - tought s
t, mate!
To further complicate the situation I am also in possession of two classic saabs, one which I share with my father and one which is my own "project" that I ended up finishing too quickly. See below:
Saab 900 Carlsson - Bought 6 months ago as a project, excellent fun and its nice to be admired wherever I go but not too amazing on the MPG side shall we say :\ (Managed 16 out of it once.)
1973 Saab Sonett III - We have owned this about 10 years now after dad imported it from the states, It was the first engine I ever rebuilt at the age of 13, and I finished off what has essentially been a full restoration over a number of years to get it to the condition it is in today, so although not technically mine, I am insured to drive it and it has alot of sentimental value.
The final piece of the puzzle is that my mum owns an MGTF that is now laid up in the garage basically immaculate as she never drives fast enough for flies to even stick to the front bumper most of the time, it has also been properly looked after by my father and I.
Mum says one of the cars has to go as we now have 6 in the family and the logical answer would either be the Tomcat or the TF as they are both rarely getting used now.
I am moving to Bristol within a Month now (scary) to start my new job and desperate for a place with a garage with some kind of project to work on as I get extremely bored if I don't have cars in bits that I can tinker with within arms reach. Ultimate aim is one of these:
VVC Caterham 7 - (okay its not a VVC in the picture but I couldn't find one that looked this AWESOME) but I'd want to build it myself, or at least buy a tatty second hand seven with a K-Series in already, restore it and drop a VVC lump in. I don't want to start a K-Series debate here but there are several reasons why I would want an engine like the VVC in one and I am probably not going to be talked out of it. I am probably only a few years away from being able to afford this and could do it on finance now with the disposable income from my new job at a push.
Now the way I see it I have the following options:
A) Sell Tomcat to friend and get a bit more for it than I ever would selling to a randomer (don't want to rip my friend off but its his offer out of nowhere). Use 900 as daily driver. Use proceeds towards trackday fun car (potentially mums MGTF) or Caterham fund. Await phonecall to pull him and my old car out of ditch.
B) Keep Tomcat and turn spend a bit turning it into a pure track car for a bit of fun as a stopgap until I can afford Caterham. Use 900 as daily driver.
C) Pour money into 900 to turn it into a showstopper of a car. Use Tomcat as daily driver. (900 can't ever really be a track car as I can't afford the gearboxes it will chew through and its quite rare so I don't want to prang it.)
D) Break Tomcat for spares, Keep engine and blueprint rebuild into VVC-R Spec (195 Bhp) and save up for C7 to drop it into. Use 900 as daily driver.
E) SELL EVERYTHING BUY CATERHAM. USE CATERHAM AS DAILY DRIVER.
Over to you wise oh PHers, with added interjections of hilarity involving ripping mates off with your past sheds.
Am I mad to even consider selling to him, bearing in mind whenever the Golf breaks it is fixed at my house with my tools as he is too cheap to buy his own. I am hoping Bristol will be too far for him to limp it to me to complain!
Was just looking to get the general PH consensus on selling a car you have owned, used and abused for a number of years to one of your best mates. If anyone has any horror stories now is the time to share so I can tell my friend to shove his rather generous offer. The situation is as follows...
I have owned this for coming up to 3 years now...
A Rover VVC Tomcat that has served me well as a wonderful motorway hack to transport myself + serious tonnage of washing between uni and home in comfort and (well I was going to say style but it's a rover..), It also turns out that without the heavy turbo lump in the front of this car and with a few suspension mods it is not too bad round the twisty bits and has enough power to bring a smile to the face, albeit with constant attention to stiring the gearstick to keep it on the boil.
It does however have it's bad points now as 3 years of being a skint student have taken its toll on the poor girl.
Appaulingly long brake pedal travel - even with all new fluid and decent amount of meat left on both front and rear pads.
ABS Fault due to incorrect reluctor ring on nearside rear hub after I replaced a trailing arm.
Cosmetic rust bubbling on boot skin, all wheel arches and around side repeaters
Dodgy laquer after first respray attempt on nearside side repeater
Noisy/Squeaky alternator belt
Rocker gasket oil leak
Cracked windscreen (although not an MOT fail)
Usual Bubbling on bootlid spoiler
Corroded alloys that need a refurb
Sounds bad doesn't it but the car doesn't look half bad after a wash, has 12 months MOT, lovely interior and its mechanically sound. Its just turned 99,000miles old today and I am confident that without really any expenditure other than service items it has atleast another 50,000 in it before it would be off to the scrapyard in the sky.
Having said that, as good as the car is the value of these has plummeted even further since I bought it and I think I would be lucky to get 600 for it with all the niggles it has. They seem to be VERY hard to sell despite being in my opinion, great cars.
Now my friend drives this wee beasty:
(Dab of oppo courtesy of moi, on private land OBVIOUSLY
)A MkII Golf Driver that is also a bit battlescared after 4 years of doing the Sheffield-Bham washing route and surviving countless blats through the Peak district. He has owned this since he started driving and although I would hardly describe it as his pride and joy as he uses the poor old girl as she was intended, I do believe he genuinely loves the car and now we have graduated has big plans to return it to its former original glory and maybe drop in a 16V Gti lump but keep everything else fairly sensible.
In order to do this he needs another car that he can commute to work in and generally use as a runabout, and originally he was planning on a VVC MGF, but has now made a quite serious and "good" offer pricewise (circa 750) on the Tomcat as he knows it has been properly looked after from a mechanical standpoint but is just a bit scrappy. Problem is that he, like myself, won't get paid until the end of September and needs the car now. So would be paying me a token deposit (say 100 pounds) until his first pay day when he would be able to settle the balance. I totally understand this as I am in exactly the same situation and he is one of my closest friends. This is obviously on the understanding that if he prangs it between then and now he still has to pay me the agreed amount in full and the car is sold as seen, I won't have him coming to me saying this has broken and this is on it's way out - tought s
t, mate! To further complicate the situation I am also in possession of two classic saabs, one which I share with my father and one which is my own "project" that I ended up finishing too quickly. See below:
Saab 900 Carlsson - Bought 6 months ago as a project, excellent fun and its nice to be admired wherever I go but not too amazing on the MPG side shall we say :\ (Managed 16 out of it once.)
1973 Saab Sonett III - We have owned this about 10 years now after dad imported it from the states, It was the first engine I ever rebuilt at the age of 13, and I finished off what has essentially been a full restoration over a number of years to get it to the condition it is in today, so although not technically mine, I am insured to drive it and it has alot of sentimental value.
The final piece of the puzzle is that my mum owns an MGTF that is now laid up in the garage basically immaculate as she never drives fast enough for flies to even stick to the front bumper most of the time, it has also been properly looked after by my father and I.
Mum says one of the cars has to go as we now have 6 in the family and the logical answer would either be the Tomcat or the TF as they are both rarely getting used now.
I am moving to Bristol within a Month now (scary) to start my new job and desperate for a place with a garage with some kind of project to work on as I get extremely bored if I don't have cars in bits that I can tinker with within arms reach. Ultimate aim is one of these:
VVC Caterham 7 - (okay its not a VVC in the picture but I couldn't find one that looked this AWESOME) but I'd want to build it myself, or at least buy a tatty second hand seven with a K-Series in already, restore it and drop a VVC lump in. I don't want to start a K-Series debate here but there are several reasons why I would want an engine like the VVC in one and I am probably not going to be talked out of it. I am probably only a few years away from being able to afford this and could do it on finance now with the disposable income from my new job at a push.
Now the way I see it I have the following options:
A) Sell Tomcat to friend and get a bit more for it than I ever would selling to a randomer (don't want to rip my friend off but its his offer out of nowhere). Use 900 as daily driver. Use proceeds towards trackday fun car (potentially mums MGTF) or Caterham fund. Await phonecall to pull him and my old car out of ditch.
B) Keep Tomcat and turn spend a bit turning it into a pure track car for a bit of fun as a stopgap until I can afford Caterham. Use 900 as daily driver.
C) Pour money into 900 to turn it into a showstopper of a car. Use Tomcat as daily driver. (900 can't ever really be a track car as I can't afford the gearboxes it will chew through and its quite rare so I don't want to prang it.)
D) Break Tomcat for spares, Keep engine and blueprint rebuild into VVC-R Spec (195 Bhp) and save up for C7 to drop it into. Use 900 as daily driver.
E) SELL EVERYTHING BUY CATERHAM. USE CATERHAM AS DAILY DRIVER.
Over to you wise oh PHers, with added interjections of hilarity involving ripping mates off with your past sheds.
Am I mad to even consider selling to him, bearing in mind whenever the Golf breaks it is fixed at my house with my tools as he is too cheap to buy his own. I am hoping Bristol will be too far for him to limp it to me to complain!
I wouldn't use the Caterham every day mate it will just do your head in and you will grow to resent it. Personally if it was me I would sell the Rover to your mate, as you say it's a fair offer and it's his job to make sure it's not a plum (although if there's something seriously wrong with it you need to tell him!). Keep the money and stick it in a savings account and try to build on it each month until you can afford a Caterham. If that's your goal I would just aim for that, even consider chopping the Saab in for something cheaper but to be fair it won't depreciate and I don't imagine costs the earth to run either?
6potdave said:
I wouldn't use the Caterham every day mate it will just do your head in and you will grow to resent it.
Really? Do you own a Caterham you use every day?At the end of the month I will hit 4 years of using my Caterham as an everyday car - and it was just as much fun today to drive to work in, as on the first day.
Oh, and my car has a VVC 160 - it is the perfect engine if you plan to use your car everyday, it's at home in a traffic jam on the M4 as on a Welsh mountain road
I dont think you can do much with the VVC engine re Caterham wise. If I remember, the VVC head gimickry's a bit restrictive, all the VDPH 190 engines were derived from the std K.
You've got to be a very special person to use a 7 all the time, like the chappie above, hats off to you. For me it ruined the occasions when I wheeled mine out of the garage on the high days and holidays, Elise far more a potential everyday car....just.
You've got to be a very special person to use a 7 all the time, like the chappie above, hats off to you. For me it ruined the occasions when I wheeled mine out of the garage on the high days and holidays, Elise far more a potential everyday car....just.
Edited by icepop on Thursday 11th August 01:57
My Dentist set-about using a Caterham as a daily driver - it took him just 5 weeks to destroy it.
Beginings of winter, no frost yet but plenty of dew meant damp patches on a country road he'd driven 100s of times - something most other cars would have shrugged-off but you're going just a BIT quicker in a 7 - it's a BIT lighter - the time to catch it is just a BIT shorter and the car is in 3 bits courtesy of a tree.
He's fine but the project to use it as a daily driver was over.
I guess it all depends on your 'daily drive' but the lack of weather protection, difficulties parking it securely, lack of anywhere to store anything etc. will become pretty obvious, pretty quickly.
You need to be pretty committed - or perhaps you SHOULD be
Beginings of winter, no frost yet but plenty of dew meant damp patches on a country road he'd driven 100s of times - something most other cars would have shrugged-off but you're going just a BIT quicker in a 7 - it's a BIT lighter - the time to catch it is just a BIT shorter and the car is in 3 bits courtesy of a tree.
He's fine but the project to use it as a daily driver was over.
I guess it all depends on your 'daily drive' but the lack of weather protection, difficulties parking it securely, lack of anywhere to store anything etc. will become pretty obvious, pretty quickly.
You need to be pretty committed - or perhaps you SHOULD be
Meldonte said:
E) SELL EVERYTHING BUY CATERHAM. USE CATERHAM AS DAILY DRIVER.
Right.6potdave said:
I wouldn't use the Caterham every day mate it will just do your head in and you will grow to resent it.
Wrong.Just do it. If your heart is set on a Caterham, then only a Caterham will do. Yes, it's impractical, noisy, cramped, draughty and often uncomfortable - but I can't think of any other car with a bigger smile per mile ratio. Only you can tell if you would be able to live with one for what you need your car to do for you. Everything else can be worked around.
If (and it's a big if) six months/a year down the line you decide that your balls aren't actually big enough to drive one every day, sell it. You will get your money back - possibly more if you've fiddled with it.
See my thread on running one every day for a taste of my experiences.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
All IMHO, of course. Your house is at risk if you don't keep up payments on a mortgage or loan secure against it. Share prices can go up as well as down. Don't run with scissors. Don't eat yellow snow.
what a long post! it's only because i'm 3hrs ahead of the UK and it's dead on the forums until you guys get to work that i'm bored enough to read it!
if i were you i'd:
flog the rover. whether you trust your mate enough to give it on tick is your call. i sold a car to a mate this way and there were no issues.
flog the mgf and pocket the cash
run the saab as a daily as the 900 is a very cool car, though i wouldn't pour money into one. you'd be better off just buying a nicer one in future should you still be that into them.
borrow the sonnet for occasional weekends, very cool car.
put all the savings into your caterham fund.
it's only because i'm 3hrs ahead of the UK and it's dead on the forums until you guys get to work that i'm bored enough to read it!if i were you i'd:
flog the rover. whether you trust your mate enough to give it on tick is your call. i sold a car to a mate this way and there were no issues.
flog the mgf and pocket the cash
run the saab as a daily as the 900 is a very cool car, though i wouldn't pour money into one. you'd be better off just buying a nicer one in future should you still be that into them.
borrow the sonnet for occasional weekends, very cool car.
put all the savings into your caterham fund.
johnpeat said:
My Dentist set-about using a Caterham as a daily driver - it took him just 5 weeks to destroy it.
Beginings of winter, no frost yet but plenty of dew meant damp patches on a country road he'd driven 100s of times - something most other cars would have shrugged-off but you're going just a BIT quicker in a 7 - it's a BIT lighter - the time to catch it is just a BIT shorter and the car is in 3 bits courtesy of a tree.
Have you ever owned a Caterham? When things go wrong you are much more likely to be able to recover from it than another car. And remember not every 7 is the same, the OP has obviously done his research if he is looking for a VVC which would make a great everyday car - a 7 with a 350hp lump and a sequential box wouldn't.Beginings of winter, no frost yet but plenty of dew meant damp patches on a country road he'd driven 100s of times - something most other cars would have shrugged-off but you're going just a BIT quicker in a 7 - it's a BIT lighter - the time to catch it is just a BIT shorter and the car is in 3 bits courtesy of a tree.
johnpeat said:
He's fine but the project to use it as a daily driver was over.
So because your dentist bent a 7 other people shouldn't try it? See the thread about a woman who seemed unable to get round a roundabout without hitting people in her Ford Focus - best give those a miss also, probably complete death traps
Started off a bit of debate here! Good!
To be honest I don't think my balls are big enough to jump into using a caterham as my only car straight away, as often I need to lug car bits around the the saabs enourmous boot is perfect for that. I don't think it would ever be case of "GOD NOW I HAVE TO DRIVE THIS AMAZING CATERHAM TO WORK AND ITS COLD BOOHOO" but I wouldn't want to loose the ability of road trips with mates to visit other mates etc etc. I will deffo read about your experiences CW7 - cheers for the heads up.
The black 900 is a Carlsson limited edition run which command a huge premium over other models and the values are only ever going up so I will probably hold onto it for a couple of years.
I know the VHPD engines were 190ish BHP aswell but without the VVC mechs, but that is not what I am talking about. The VVC is so perfect for a daily driver in a caterham as its very tractable at low revs due to the variation in duration and timing but also works as a 8,00rpm screamer with suitable internals. With a few mods such as a decent exhaust, roller barrel TBs and a decent remap on Emerald 190 BHP is possible whilst maintaining a very tame engine for pootling about and touring.
See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3h6n6IS6_I&fea...
Obviously I wouldn't rip my mate off over the Rover and will tell him everything that is wrong with it that I know of, but am I likely to resent him watching it further degrade until it reaches the scrapyard in the sky. The other thing which comes from stupid things you find satisfying in a car thread is that it's not long until it clicks over to 100,000 miles and I REALLY wanted to see that.
What do people think about using the tomcat or a suitably cheap alternative with a few choice mods (think 205gti/306rallye/mx5) as a track car for a few years before making the jump to the caterham, obviously it would be far less satisfying but would it be good to learn a bit of track etiquette before and technique before getting such a piece of kit? (I realize the differences between FWD/RWD are huge but learning to make smooth, controlled inputs and corrections at the limit is something that applies to any car.)
To be honest I don't think my balls are big enough to jump into using a caterham as my only car straight away, as often I need to lug car bits around the the saabs enourmous boot is perfect for that. I don't think it would ever be case of "GOD NOW I HAVE TO DRIVE THIS AMAZING CATERHAM TO WORK AND ITS COLD BOOHOO" but I wouldn't want to loose the ability of road trips with mates to visit other mates etc etc. I will deffo read about your experiences CW7 - cheers for the heads up.
The black 900 is a Carlsson limited edition run which command a huge premium over other models and the values are only ever going up so I will probably hold onto it for a couple of years.
I know the VHPD engines were 190ish BHP aswell but without the VVC mechs, but that is not what I am talking about. The VVC is so perfect for a daily driver in a caterham as its very tractable at low revs due to the variation in duration and timing but also works as a 8,00rpm screamer with suitable internals. With a few mods such as a decent exhaust, roller barrel TBs and a decent remap on Emerald 190 BHP is possible whilst maintaining a very tame engine for pootling about and touring.
See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3h6n6IS6_I&fea...
Obviously I wouldn't rip my mate off over the Rover and will tell him everything that is wrong with it that I know of, but am I likely to resent him watching it further degrade until it reaches the scrapyard in the sky. The other thing which comes from stupid things you find satisfying in a car thread is that it's not long until it clicks over to 100,000 miles and I REALLY wanted to see that
.What do people think about using the tomcat or a suitably cheap alternative with a few choice mods (think 205gti/306rallye/mx5) as a track car for a few years before making the jump to the caterham, obviously it would be far less satisfying but would it be good to learn a bit of track etiquette before and technique before getting such a piece of kit? (I realize the differences between FWD/RWD are huge but learning to make smooth, controlled inputs and corrections at the limit is something that applies to any car.)
Like the 900 but dont understand the comment about the Rover and style, always thought the 200 Coupe was a really nice looking car, appreciate the sentimental value and the rarity of the Sonnet but its not the most attractive thing on the planet, the Rover is a far better looking car regardless of its badge having as much kudos for most as a Gary Glitter T shirt at a Brownies meeting.
Keep the Rover !
Keep the Rover !
Meldonte said:
I know the VHPD engines were 190ish BHP aswell but without the VVC mechs, but that is not what I am talking about. The VVC is so perfect for a daily driver in a caterham as its very tractable at low revs due to the variation in duration and timing but also works as a 8,00rpm screamer with suitable internals. With a few mods such as a decent exhaust, roller barrel TBs and a decent remap on Emerald 190 BHP is possible whilst maintaining a very tame engine for pootling about and touring.
A VHPD is a much better base to start from than a VVC if you want 190HP. The VVC will probably end up being blanked anyway for a set of cams along with forged pistons, Jenveys (dont waste your money on rollers) and a half decent exhaust, or to put it another way £3000 if you do some of it yourself. Alternatively a set of verniers for the VHPD and an Emerald will be £600-700 and transform the bottom end driveability. Also something like an SLR will already have an LSD, big brakes, Strut and probably tillets and some carbon. You wont have to swap the KV6's either unless you want to go well over 200. Dont be put off the VHPD.Have a poke around DVA's website.
J4CKO said:
Like the 900 but dont understand the comment about the Rover and style, always thought the 200 Coupe was a really nice looking car, appreciate the sentimental value and the rarity of the Sonnet but its not the most attractive thing on the planet, the Rover is a far better looking car regardless of its badge having as much kudos for most as a Gary Glitter T shirt at a Brownies meeting.
Keep the Rover !
Do you know what you have just made me feel really ashamed haha for becoming a PH sheep - I like rovers, there I said it. If I am honest you are totally right and the tomcat is a vastly underated car (and not bad looking either) for the price point which has served me really well over the years. I guess I just didn't want to turn this thread into a 335d(mapped) situation - I think it looks nice and it goes well but I appreciate it is not to the taste of some of the badge snobs on here.Keep the Rover !
I guess I would be fairly near the younger end of the spectrum of caterham ownerships at 23 but then I have met many people who bought them around that age and still have them now. I still think though even if I was to use the cat as a daily driver, I would still want another shed with character that I didn't really have to look after as much to cart me about on longer trips and through winter. Gonna go read CW7's stuff now - I am intrigued.
yonex said:
A VHPD is a much better base to start from than a VVC if you want 190HP. The VVC will probably end up being blanked anyway for a set of cams along with forged pistons, Jenveys (dont waste your money on rollers) and a half decent exhaust, or to put it another way £3000 if you do some of it yourself. Alternatively a set of verniers for the VHPD and an Emerald will be £600-700 and transform the bottom end driveability. Also something like an SLR will already have an LSD, big brakes, Strut and probably tillets and some carbon. You wont have to swap the KV6's either unless you want to go well over 200. Dont be put off the VHPD.
Have a poke around DVA's website.
Good post, I'm not put off the VHPD and would have one in a heartbeat aswell - just thought there might be something quite nice about saving the VVC from my tomcat, rebuilding it properly and putting it in a caterham. Excuse my ignoranance but by KV6's I take it you meean the TB's that were on the VHPD as standard (modified from ones fitted to a KV6?)Have a poke around DVA's website.
Now you have me thinking, a KV6 in a caterham would be amazing - I haven't heard of anyone doing this, there is probably a reason?
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