clutch fails after 5 min - garage don't want to know
Discussion
Son buys an Audi A4, manual, 40k miles on finance from independent Audi specialist. Drives out of the garage and the clutch goes within 5 min. Car trailered back to garage. A week later garage claim he owes them £700 for a new clutch.
How can this be right? Is the garage trying it on, or can you actually burn out an Audi clutch in 5 minutes?
How can this be right? Is the garage trying it on, or can you actually burn out an Audi clutch in 5 minutes?
Google: Sale of Goods Act
When you buy goods you enter into a contract with the seller of those goods. Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be:
* 'as described',
* 'of satisfactory quality', and
* 'fit for purpose' – this means both their everyday purpose, and also any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller (for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that would be compatible with your computer).
Goods sold must also match any sample you were shown in-store, or any description in a brochure.
If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
When you buy goods you enter into a contract with the seller of those goods. Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be:
* 'as described',
* 'of satisfactory quality', and
* 'fit for purpose' – this means both their everyday purpose, and also any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller (for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that would be compatible with your computer).
Goods sold must also match any sample you were shown in-store, or any description in a brochure.
If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
That's outrageous.
If you buy from a dealer - and that applies to plush showrooms down to
individuals who deal from home - you have rights under the Sale & Supply of Goods Act 1979.
These are that the car must be of satisfactory quality (bearing in mind its age), must be as described, and must be fit for its purpose. This means that it
should be free from defects other than any you've been told about, should be exactly what you've been told it is, and should do what you might reasonably expect of it, including any particular purpose you have specified to the seller.
If you feel your purchase does not meet one of these requirements, you have a short period after buying it in which you may be able to reject it completely. To
do this, you must stop using the car immediately and contact the dealer. Then
you must follow your complaint up in writing and give evidence for any problems, including to any finance company you have used to fund your purchase. You
may need to get an independent assessment of the car and possibly, if the
rejection is disputed, take legal action to recoup your money.
If in a dispute with a dealer, you should also check whether they belong to any trade associations, what their policies are and whether the dealer is abiding by them. Also consider involving the Trading Standards department of your local council.
If you need to take legal action, you can make claims up to £5,000 in value
using the small claims courts. Above this, you may need to employ proper legal representation for full court proceedings.
If you mention this to the dealer, they may offer to repair or replace the car (if you can trust them of course!). If you choose a repair, ensure the dealer provides you with a courtesy or hire car, or pays your travel costs while the repairs are being made.
BUT, all of the above depends on the type of deal you had - if your son was a retail customer then all of the above applies however if there are phrases such as 'not fit for any purpose', 'sold as parts only', 'sold as scrap' or 'no warranty given or implied' written on the invoice then he may have some difficulty resolving the situation.
If you buy from a dealer - and that applies to plush showrooms down to
individuals who deal from home - you have rights under the Sale & Supply of Goods Act 1979.
These are that the car must be of satisfactory quality (bearing in mind its age), must be as described, and must be fit for its purpose. This means that it
should be free from defects other than any you've been told about, should be exactly what you've been told it is, and should do what you might reasonably expect of it, including any particular purpose you have specified to the seller.
If you feel your purchase does not meet one of these requirements, you have a short period after buying it in which you may be able to reject it completely. To
do this, you must stop using the car immediately and contact the dealer. Then
you must follow your complaint up in writing and give evidence for any problems, including to any finance company you have used to fund your purchase. You
may need to get an independent assessment of the car and possibly, if the
rejection is disputed, take legal action to recoup your money.
If in a dispute with a dealer, you should also check whether they belong to any trade associations, what their policies are and whether the dealer is abiding by them. Also consider involving the Trading Standards department of your local council.
If you need to take legal action, you can make claims up to £5,000 in value
using the small claims courts. Above this, you may need to employ proper legal representation for full court proceedings.
If you mention this to the dealer, they may offer to repair or replace the car (if you can trust them of course!). If you choose a repair, ensure the dealer provides you with a courtesy or hire car, or pays your travel costs while the repairs are being made.
BUT, all of the above depends on the type of deal you had - if your son was a retail customer then all of the above applies however if there are phrases such as 'not fit for any purpose', 'sold as parts only', 'sold as scrap' or 'no warranty given or implied' written on the invoice then he may have some difficulty resolving the situation.
The only gotcha here would be if the car was sold with the fault noted or as something like "spares or repairs".
Otherwise what I'd do is call Trading Standards - they'll advise you AND call the dealer who will realise the error of their ways.
It MIGHT just be a mistake on their behalf tho - did he challenge them?
If they are trying-it-on and it was really 5 mins (and not, say, 3 months) then I'd probably just go for the refund, just to piss them off.
Otherwise what I'd do is call Trading Standards - they'll advise you AND call the dealer who will realise the error of their ways.
It MIGHT just be a mistake on their behalf tho - did he challenge them?
If they are trying-it-on and it was really 5 mins (and not, say, 3 months) then I'd probably just go for the refund, just to piss them off.
deadslow said:
Car was sold retail, c.£14k, with some form of 6 month warranty, so I'm shocked at the situation.
That's pretty shocking.Did your son get legal cover with his insurance - that £20 extra that often gets tagged on? It's for exactly this kind of situation.
If the garage won't budge on the bill then reject the car as unfit for purpose and demand refund of cost plus all asociated expenses - finance costs, insurance, road tax etc. Put it in writing and they'll probably change their tune pretty quickly.
t!A dealer cant sell a car with a knackered clutch,as already said threaten them with legal action and they will sort it as they know they wont have a leg to stand on if they dont!Tyre Tread said:
Google: Sale of Goods Act
When you buy goods you enter into a contract with the seller of those goods. Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be:
* 'as described',
* 'of satisfactory quality', and
* 'fit for purpose' – this means both their everyday purpose, and also any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller (for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that would be compatible with your computer).
Goods sold must also match any sample you were shown in-store, or any description in a brochure.
If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
That's all good and all.When you buy goods you enter into a contract with the seller of those goods. Under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 goods must be:
* 'as described',
* 'of satisfactory quality', and
* 'fit for purpose' – this means both their everyday purpose, and also any specific purpose that you agreed with the seller (for example, if you specifically asked for a printer that would be compatible with your computer).
Goods sold must also match any sample you were shown in-store, or any description in a brochure.
If you buy a product that turns out to be faulty, you can choose to 'reject' it: give it back and get your money back. However, the law gives you only a 'reasonable' time to do this – what is reasonable depends on the product and how obvious the fault is. However, even with something like a car, you usually have no more than three to four weeks from when you receive it to reject it.
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or 'as described' when it sold them e.g. by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage. Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.
But SOGA does also state if a buyer buys knowing there is a fault (a slipping or weak clutch) then they are accepting it and such a fault is then not governed by SOGA.
I don't quite understand this. A clutch does not just "go" - it begins slipping as it wears and eventually stops giving drive all together.
Do you mean something clutch related failed such as the slave or master hydraulic cylinder or the clutch plate broke apart (or the springs in it) or the flywheel failed?
There are very few dealers who would not consider a clutch related failure literally 5 minutes after sale a non-questionable thing to fix. They're technically correct in that failure due to wear of the friction plate is not covered (it isn't under brand new manufacturer warranty either) but is that what went? If it was the friction plate it must have been slipping when it was bought.
Do you mean something clutch related failed such as the slave or master hydraulic cylinder or the clutch plate broke apart (or the springs in it) or the flywheel failed?
There are very few dealers who would not consider a clutch related failure literally 5 minutes after sale a non-questionable thing to fix. They're technically correct in that failure due to wear of the friction plate is not covered (it isn't under brand new manufacturer warranty either) but is that what went? If it was the friction plate it must have been slipping when it was bought.
This could get interesting. The company doesn't really have a leg to stand on, but what happens if they flat out refuse? I'd expect your son to not drop this on principle alone. If I paid 14k for a car private I would expect come back if the clutch failed after 5minutes. Never mind paying for a car from a garage with warranty!
300bhp/ton said:
That's all good and all.
But SOGA does also state if a buyer buys knowing there is a fault (a slipping or weak clutch) then they are accepting it and such a fault is then not governed by SOGA.
Surely its up to the seller to let the customer KNOW of the fault so they can accept it.But SOGA does also state if a buyer buys knowing there is a fault (a slipping or weak clutch) then they are accepting it and such a fault is then not governed by SOGA.
confused_buyer said:
I don't quite understand this. A clutch does not just "go" - it begins slipping as it wears and eventually stops giving drive all together.
Not necessarily. I've seen clutches "just go". Car was fine one day, doing what it does with 4 passengers. Next day loss of drive up a hill, recovered, clutch gone.confused_buyer said:
I don't quite understand this. A clutch does not just "go" - it begins slipping as it wears and eventually stops giving drive all together.
Do you mean something clutch related failed such as the slave or master hydraulic cylinder or the clutch plate broke apart (or the springs in it) or the flywheel failed?
There are very few dealers who would not consider a clutch related failure literally 5 minutes after sale a non-questionable thing to fix. They're technically correct in that failure due to wear of the friction plate is not covered (it isn't under brand new manufacturer warranty either) but is that what went? If it was the friction plate it must have been slipping when it was bought.
I suspect there is far more to this than the OP is saying. This 5 mins, might well be 5 days.Do you mean something clutch related failed such as the slave or master hydraulic cylinder or the clutch plate broke apart (or the springs in it) or the flywheel failed?
There are very few dealers who would not consider a clutch related failure literally 5 minutes after sale a non-questionable thing to fix. They're technically correct in that failure due to wear of the friction plate is not covered (it isn't under brand new manufacturer warranty either) but is that what went? If it was the friction plate it must have been slipping when it was bought.
Lets face it, how far would you get in 5 mins anyway? A walk or lift back to the dealer and tell them to go collect the car, not arrange a trailer to bring it back.
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