Stupid question of the day - largish expanse of tarmac
Discussion
Random tuesday evening thought...
Hypothetically... are there any largish expanses of tarmac (say a car park of some sort that does not have curbs, poles etc - nothing too big say sub football field size) that people can use 'out of hours' ...
assuming its far from residential homes etc of course...
I would assume not...
And I guess if it did exist - people would stop boy racers meeting there to do burn outs, etc
But what if it was just big enough to have a go at small drifts? (yet space to spin out)?
Also - why would people not 'rent' out such space by the hour (for exclusive use) ... would they need stupid amounts of insurance/local permission etc...
Bit like an airfield I guess but I am thinking a little more accessible and smaller (and also single use spaces)?
Hmm ...
Hypothetically... are there any largish expanses of tarmac (say a car park of some sort that does not have curbs, poles etc - nothing too big say sub football field size) that people can use 'out of hours' ...
assuming its far from residential homes etc of course...
I would assume not...
And I guess if it did exist - people would stop boy racers meeting there to do burn outs, etc
But what if it was just big enough to have a go at small drifts? (yet space to spin out)?
Also - why would people not 'rent' out such space by the hour (for exclusive use) ... would they need stupid amounts of insurance/local permission etc...
Bit like an airfield I guess but I am thinking a little more accessible and smaller (and also single use spaces)?
Hmm ...
As you pointed out insurance and also liability would be a big issue. If you own a car park and let it out for a few hours to someone you knew intended to use it to practicing drifting or some other type of fairly advance driving, I am sure you would be liable should an accident occur. If you take into consideration the potential costs to the landowner for such a risk they are going to probably expect a significant amount in return.
Rakoosh said:
Random tuesday evening thought...
Hypothetically... are there any largish expanses of tarmac (say a car park of some sort that does not have curbs, poles etc - nothing too big say sub football field size) that people can use 'out of hours' ...
assuming its far from residential homes etc of course...
I would assume not...
And I guess if it did exist - people would stop boy racers meeting there to do burn outs, etc
But what if it was just big enough to have a go at small drifts? (yet space to spin out)?
Also - why would people not 'rent' out such space by the hour (for exclusive use) ... would they need stupid amounts of insurance/local permission etc...
Bit like an airfield I guess but I am thinking a little more accessible and smaller (and also single use spaces)?
Hmm ...
You can do this on a fair number of days at North Weald, through one of the various companies that rent it. Andy Walsh did this a fair bit through his 1st Lotus and Carlimits schools, but that was a few years ago - I'm not sure if he still does.Hypothetically... are there any largish expanses of tarmac (say a car park of some sort that does not have curbs, poles etc - nothing too big say sub football field size) that people can use 'out of hours' ...
assuming its far from residential homes etc of course...
I would assume not...
And I guess if it did exist - people would stop boy racers meeting there to do burn outs, etc
But what if it was just big enough to have a go at small drifts? (yet space to spin out)?
Also - why would people not 'rent' out such space by the hour (for exclusive use) ... would they need stupid amounts of insurance/local permission etc...
Bit like an airfield I guess but I am thinking a little more accessible and smaller (and also single use spaces)?
Hmm ...
C
I think something like this would be great, but I agree the insurance would probably be prohibitive.
I reckon there are plenty of people who go on track days not because they're particularly worried about setting times round a circuit, but simply so they can push their car harder than they can on the road. All they really need is some second hand tyres and a big car park.
I reckon there are plenty of people who go on track days not because they're particularly worried about setting times round a circuit, but simply so they can push their car harder than they can on the road. All they really need is some second hand tyres and a big car park.
Occupiers Liabilty Act and many offences can now be committed in a public place to which the public have access on payment or otherwise. Look at the health and safety issues of just having a drag racing strip of 1/4 mile, insurance etc etc.
So no, not really unless it was a completely private place that didn't charge admission to make it a public place...
So no, not really unless it was a completely private place that didn't charge admission to make it a public place...
Hi yes to the above Andy Walsh still does Activity Days (and driver training) at North Weald. His driver training days I found to be excellent (and in fact is what got me thinking of this).
The activity days is slightly more on the lines I was thinking of - a safe area to have a play. And they work well and are very reasonably priced (activity days are something like up to 50 per car). The only thing is typiclly in those you have to wait your turn to hit the high speed bend or a circuit, you get about a minute on it and then have to queue up again. So in a day its enough but its a long day for an hour or so of driving?
I'm thinking something like that but maybe being able to hire half an hour or an hour. As someone said a chance to see the limits of the car in a safe (ish) environment.
Re: liability etc - surely we could sign off any liability a la track days?
So I am thinking an industrialish site with open tarmac... ok maybe a small investment may be required (depending on the place) to put up some armco barriers to ensure no one spins out of the designated area?
Something people can 'book' in the weekends/evenings for an hour or so and use how they will with no liability and no health and safety repurcussions to the person hiring it out?
Or are we living in a world where we just would not be allowed to do this?
The activity days is slightly more on the lines I was thinking of - a safe area to have a play. And they work well and are very reasonably priced (activity days are something like up to 50 per car). The only thing is typiclly in those you have to wait your turn to hit the high speed bend or a circuit, you get about a minute on it and then have to queue up again. So in a day its enough but its a long day for an hour or so of driving?
I'm thinking something like that but maybe being able to hire half an hour or an hour. As someone said a chance to see the limits of the car in a safe (ish) environment.
Re: liability etc - surely we could sign off any liability a la track days?
So I am thinking an industrialish site with open tarmac... ok maybe a small investment may be required (depending on the place) to put up some armco barriers to ensure no one spins out of the designated area?
Something people can 'book' in the weekends/evenings for an hour or so and use how they will with no liability and no health and safety repurcussions to the person hiring it out?
Or are we living in a world where we just would not be allowed to do this?
LuS1fer said:
So no, not really unless it was a completely private place that didn't charge admission to make it a public place...
But even then you would almost certainly need planning permission for "change of use" unless, as LuS1fer suggests, the use was completely private - owner and guests with no charges of any sort. Any noise issues could still lead to trouble though.thinfourth2 said:
If you are wanting to provide such a thing or use it?
If you want to use it join your nearest MSA car club and start autotesting
+1If you want to use it join your nearest MSA car club and start autotesting
Local motor clubs have a habit of sniffing out local venues that are useful for autotests / solos / gymkhanas. I've taken part in events on airfields, former airfields, grass fields, stubble fields, factory car parks and even one in a local college car park.
Theres an old aerodrome near me, miles from any houses, etc, and on "common" land.
Runways pretty much all gone (shame!) but there is still a huge area of tarmac, and it is *covered* in tyre tracks.
The police have put up loads of signs warning of S59 and S3 offenses, etc, I suspect it would be hard to get a decent prosecution though..
Runways pretty much all gone (shame!) but there is still a huge area of tarmac, and it is *covered* in tyre tracks.
The police have put up loads of signs warning of S59 and S3 offenses, etc, I suspect it would be hard to get a decent prosecution though..
Rakoosh said:
To use ideally - MSA sounds good but I don't want to compete just want a blat!
Hmm ian - htat sounds good ... any chance you can let me know where that is
So 30 pounds to join a car club and take part in an autotest where you will get advise and coachingHmm ian - htat sounds good ... any chance you can let me know where that is
Or
Go illegal and risk losing your car and or license
I know what i would be doing
Huh? This kind of patronising response slightly annoys me... because it's not helpful and its ill thought out. Thanks to others who have been useful but the one above is not.
Why would it be illegal if someone had the space that they were renting out for this use??? And I had 'permission' to use it. I understand like a track day - it may fall under waiving my normal insurance? but again would need to know if it even exists...
Also where did I say I was looking for somewhere thats free? So why the comment that implies I am too tight to pay £30 ????? I specifically said in my earlier posts which you obviously did not bother to read:
"I'm thinking something like that but maybe being able to hire half an hour or an hour. "
Hire = to pay for something... I'm not looking for an illegal place to practice burn outs...
AND I would happily join a car club that allows me to do what I was talking about- i.e. just some space where I can have a non competitive play? Do they exist?
If so please point me to the right one and I will sign up...
I have done some searching on MSA clubs (following someone elses helpful response) and most of the motor clubs seem to organise either 'meets' or competitive type events.
Or perhaps your response is to when I was asking Ian where the place he mentioned is?
Did you not sense that I was just being amusing... the wink after the comment does not give that away???
Why would it be illegal if someone had the space that they were renting out for this use??? And I had 'permission' to use it. I understand like a track day - it may fall under waiving my normal insurance? but again would need to know if it even exists...
Also where did I say I was looking for somewhere thats free? So why the comment that implies I am too tight to pay £30 ????? I specifically said in my earlier posts which you obviously did not bother to read:
"I'm thinking something like that but maybe being able to hire half an hour or an hour. "
Hire = to pay for something... I'm not looking for an illegal place to practice burn outs...
AND I would happily join a car club that allows me to do what I was talking about- i.e. just some space where I can have a non competitive play? Do they exist?
If so please point me to the right one and I will sign up...
I have done some searching on MSA clubs (following someone elses helpful response) and most of the motor clubs seem to organise either 'meets' or competitive type events.
Or perhaps your response is to when I was asking Ian where the place he mentioned is?
Did you not sense that I was just being amusing... the wink after the comment does not give that away???
thinfourth2 said:
So 30 pounds to join a car club and take part in an autotest where you will get advise and coaching
Or
Go illegal and risk losing your car and or license
I know what i would be doing
Or
Go illegal and risk losing your car and or license
I know what i would be doing
Edited by Rakoosh on Thursday 25th August 14:03
I know exactly where you are coming from.
At the end of the day, a number of people just want to drive about sideways with their rear tyres smoking on a large expanse of Tarmac without someone with a beard and a hi viz vest labelled 'Marshall' telling them to stop having fun or that their session is between 10:50 and 11:00, and after that it's time for 'Group C2' to use the track or whatever.
I've been to a few £160 a day track days and as soon as there is a wiff of overly keen driving you get told off by 'beardy'.
By overly keen I mean a tiny bit of smoking tail out action when leaving the corners or trying to catch up with your mate in front for a bit of a 'tussle'.
This was despite the last track day at Croft being really quiet, almost deserted, with no danger of hitting anyone. I must also point out that we were not driving track day junkers, we were in my 911 and a friends Evo 9 both of which are kept pristine and the thought of damaging them or anyone else's car is unthinkable so recklessness is not on the agenda.
The most fun we have had in a long time was recently on the industrial estate where my friend with the Evo has his bodyshop. It's a huge modern sprawling affair with fresh tarmac, long wide roads and large 'A road' style roundabouts. Spreads out for over a mile in each direction and is cut off from the public road by 2 security barriers that you need a swipe card to access.
Only a handful of the units are occupied and at nights/weekends it's conpletely deserted.
You can fully imagine what we get up to. Picture an Evo 9 FQ400 being chased by another Evo or a 911, both going round a roundabout on opposite lock with the drivers both laughing like giggling schoolboys.
My mate got b
ked once by the site owners but they weren't that bothered really.
Had loads more fun than a track day leading to us to joke about 'buying our own industrial estate'.
At the end of the day, a number of people just want to drive about sideways with their rear tyres smoking on a large expanse of Tarmac without someone with a beard and a hi viz vest labelled 'Marshall' telling them to stop having fun or that their session is between 10:50 and 11:00, and after that it's time for 'Group C2' to use the track or whatever.
I've been to a few £160 a day track days and as soon as there is a wiff of overly keen driving you get told off by 'beardy'.
By overly keen I mean a tiny bit of smoking tail out action when leaving the corners or trying to catch up with your mate in front for a bit of a 'tussle'.
This was despite the last track day at Croft being really quiet, almost deserted, with no danger of hitting anyone. I must also point out that we were not driving track day junkers, we were in my 911 and a friends Evo 9 both of which are kept pristine and the thought of damaging them or anyone else's car is unthinkable so recklessness is not on the agenda.
The most fun we have had in a long time was recently on the industrial estate where my friend with the Evo has his bodyshop. It's a huge modern sprawling affair with fresh tarmac, long wide roads and large 'A road' style roundabouts. Spreads out for over a mile in each direction and is cut off from the public road by 2 security barriers that you need a swipe card to access.
Only a handful of the units are occupied and at nights/weekends it's conpletely deserted.
You can fully imagine what we get up to. Picture an Evo 9 FQ400 being chased by another Evo or a 911, both going round a roundabout on opposite lock with the drivers both laughing like giggling schoolboys.
My mate got b
ked once by the site owners but they weren't that bothered really.Had loads more fun than a track day leading to us to joke about 'buying our own industrial estate'.
Thanks this is more on the lines of what I meant ^^^. I appreciate I am being a bit vague as I am not sure exactly what I am looking for really.
In fact in my case its not so much I want to spend the time drifting but that I want to play/understand the limits of the car but not on track. Literally want to put in in circle and find out at what speed and wheel turn I still have grip, where I can /can't get away with lift off throttle, where I can push into a drift by putting power down etc.
I do occasionally (time allowing) track my car but on those days I will try to keep well within its limits as I know my limitations as a driver and I don't want to spin out...
Even though generally most track days are relatively safe - I'd rather know what my car feels like at the limit on an airfield like training day.
Which is why the Walshy days mentioned above are ideal but by nature involve a long time and again because they are marked circuits etc it does not feel like I can have a proper play (though that said on the last activity day I went to - there were some guys in an MX5 having a ball of a time).
I think if you guys bought that industrial estate (or perhaps just got teh right to use it 'out of hours') - you'd have a few customers...
I'd happily pay for its use if it was not too far !
In fact in my case its not so much I want to spend the time drifting but that I want to play/understand the limits of the car but not on track. Literally want to put in in circle and find out at what speed and wheel turn I still have grip, where I can /can't get away with lift off throttle, where I can push into a drift by putting power down etc.
I do occasionally (time allowing) track my car but on those days I will try to keep well within its limits as I know my limitations as a driver and I don't want to spin out...
Even though generally most track days are relatively safe - I'd rather know what my car feels like at the limit on an airfield like training day.
Which is why the Walshy days mentioned above are ideal but by nature involve a long time and again because they are marked circuits etc it does not feel like I can have a proper play (though that said on the last activity day I went to - there were some guys in an MX5 having a ball of a time).
I think if you guys bought that industrial estate (or perhaps just got teh right to use it 'out of hours') - you'd have a few customers...
I'd happily pay for its use if it was not too far !
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