Advice pls - Alternator failed - but fired the battery?
Discussion
quick advice needed pls
Landrover disco 3 battery light comes up - turns out to be non working alternator. Battery still had charge to start a few times and take to dealer.
Dealer call to say new alternator is covered under warrenty but battery is 'fried' and wont be under warrenty,
How do you 'fry' a battery? is this correct? Cant see how you would short out a battery as no electrical componants. a battery either charges or it doesnt. £180 to change battery.
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Landrover disco 3 battery light comes up - turns out to be non working alternator. Battery still had charge to start a few times and take to dealer.
Dealer call to say new alternator is covered under warrenty but battery is 'fried' and wont be under warrenty,
How do you 'fry' a battery? is this correct? Cant see how you would short out a battery as no electrical componants. a battery either charges or it doesnt. £180 to change battery.
views
Your alternator can fail from being "stressed" by a dead or dying battery. Charging at maximum capacity for days or even weeks can wear out an alternator quickly; the unit tries to recharge a battery that acts like a massive load instead of an energy bank, using up the alternator's lifespan in a short amount of time.
Chicken or egg?
Chicken or egg?
If one of the cells inside has died then it would be a fair assumption, as it would never hold complete charge, but fried is not the word.
Fried to me assumes an electrical surge, bit hard to do without an alternator. Batteries don't just decide to give out 50% more for nothing.
Simple test, if the battery is still square and straight chances are it will still work as the cells degrade and expand after they've "died" making the battery feel rounded.
Personally, I'd take the car back as is, give it a run and just check that the battery is showing about 14v while running, about 12v when off.
Fried to me assumes an electrical surge, bit hard to do without an alternator. Batteries don't just decide to give out 50% more for nothing.
Simple test, if the battery is still square and straight chances are it will still work as the cells degrade and expand after they've "died" making the battery feel rounded.
Personally, I'd take the car back as is, give it a run and just check that the battery is showing about 14v while running, about 12v when off.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Your alternator can fail from being "stressed" by a dead or dying battery. Charging at maximum capacity for days or even weeks can wear out an alternator quickly; the unit tries to recharge a battery that acts like a massive load instead of an energy bank, using up the alternator's lifespan in a short amount of time.
Chicken or egg?
Thanks you for a super fast reply.Chicken or egg?
The battery is 4 years old if this helps. Would you pay the cost of the new battery?
update spoke to the garage again - was the alt and tensionor that failed which shorted the battery and wont now charge up/hold a charge. Car started ok this morning Hmmm??
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 31st August 15:08
Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 31st August 15:10
catman said:
Surely, if the regulator in the alternator failed, it could allow too much current to go to the battery?
I've seen this before and you could smell the overheated battery quite clearly. it also burned out some of the wiring.
Tim
Yes this can happen so ask the dealer that question! Manufacturer customer services time??I've seen this before and you could smell the overheated battery quite clearly. it also burned out some of the wiring.
Tim
superlightr said:
Not great value, as above ECP are doing 25% off these prices at the moment.Exide Battery (Excell Battery 017 3 Year Guarantee)£87.54
Bosch Battery (S3 Battery 017 3 Year Guarantee)Part £91.14
Exide Battery (Premium Battery 017 4 Year Guarantee) £103.14
Bosch Battery (S5 Battery 020 5 Year Guarantee)£133.14
Voltage regulator failure on my e34 M5 fried the battery - so much in fact that the battery bulged out by about 30%, and forced me to stop at the side of the motorway when the fumes started to make my eyes water (was trying to make it to the next services).
An hour and a half later the RAC came out and diagnosed an 'old & worn out' battery, and charged me £140 for a much lighter duty one than required (but was all they had). 60 miles further along the motorway and the new battery failed. 2nd callout in 4 hours resulted in a low-loader instead.
2 attempts to get the alternator 'reconditioned' resulted in 2 failed attempts to get to the 'Ring (once stuck on the side at Dover docks, and once on the autobahn near Trier). Both times the alternator specialist simply replaced the voltage regulator, despite being asked to check the whole unit. It transpired that the commutator ring was slightly oval, resulting in it breaking the carbon brushes of the regulator within about 100 miles of fitting - which wouldn't have occurred on a 5 minute bench test.
£1000 of track insurance & ferry costs down the drain for the sake of a £30 part.
An hour and a half later the RAC came out and diagnosed an 'old & worn out' battery, and charged me £140 for a much lighter duty one than required (but was all they had). 60 miles further along the motorway and the new battery failed. 2nd callout in 4 hours resulted in a low-loader instead.
2 attempts to get the alternator 'reconditioned' resulted in 2 failed attempts to get to the 'Ring (once stuck on the side at Dover docks, and once on the autobahn near Trier). Both times the alternator specialist simply replaced the voltage regulator, despite being asked to check the whole unit. It transpired that the commutator ring was slightly oval, resulting in it breaking the carbon brushes of the regulator within about 100 miles of fitting - which wouldn't have occurred on a 5 minute bench test.
£1000 of track insurance & ferry costs down the drain for the sake of a £30 part.
mmm-five said:
Voltage regulator failure on my e34 M5 fried the battery - so much in fact that the battery bulged out by about 30%, and forced me to stop at the side of the motorway when the fumes started to make my eyes water (was trying to make it to the next services).
An hour and a half later the RAC came out and diagnosed an 'old & worn out' battery, and charged me £140 for a much lighter duty one than required (but was all they had). 60 miles further along the motorway and the new battery failed. 2nd callout in 4 hours resulted in a low-loader instead.
2 attempts to get the alternator 'reconditioned' resulted in 2 failed attempts to get to the 'Ring (once stuck on the side at Dover docks, and once on the autobahn near Trier). Both times the alternator specialist simply replaced the voltage regulator, despite being asked to check the whole unit. It transpired that the commutator ring was slightly oval, resulting in it breaking the carbon brushes of the regulator within about 100 miles of fitting - which wouldn't have occurred on a 5 minute bench test.
£1000 of track insurance & ferry costs down the drain for the sake of a £30 part.
ah not good.An hour and a half later the RAC came out and diagnosed an 'old & worn out' battery, and charged me £140 for a much lighter duty one than required (but was all they had). 60 miles further along the motorway and the new battery failed. 2nd callout in 4 hours resulted in a low-loader instead.
2 attempts to get the alternator 'reconditioned' resulted in 2 failed attempts to get to the 'Ring (once stuck on the side at Dover docks, and once on the autobahn near Trier). Both times the alternator specialist simply replaced the voltage regulator, despite being asked to check the whole unit. It transpired that the commutator ring was slightly oval, resulting in it breaking the carbon brushes of the regulator within about 100 miles of fitting - which wouldn't have occurred on a 5 minute bench test.
£1000 of track insurance & ferry costs down the drain for the sake of a £30 part.
We have had the alt replaced but kept the battery. Aparently it is now holding a charge ! but they cant gurantee it will all winter - I will have a look at it when i get it back to check for bulges etc
Many thanks for all the speedy replies. love PH - love you all !!
superlightr said:
We have had the alt replaced but kept the battery. Aparently it is now holding a charge ! but they cant gurantee it will all winter - I will have a look at it when i get it back to check for bulges etc
I should go to a battery specialist and get them to test the battery. The only way to do this properly is with a high current drain test - in other words virtually shorting across the terminals and seeing how the battery stands up.No ... don't try this at home!
Alternatively, remove battery from car and give it a full charging, then leave to stand indoors overnight. In the morning before you move the battery check its voltage with an accurate voltmeter. The ideal voltage is 2.1 per cell making a total of 12.6 volts.
12.6 volts is good news! - 100% healthy
12.5 volts is not too bad
12.4 volts is marginal
Anything less and you will be buying a new battery
Ozzie Osmond said:
I should go to a battery specialist and get them to test the battery. The only way to do this properly is with a high current drain test - in other words virtually shorting across the terminals and seeing how the battery stands up.
No ... don't try this at home!
Alternatively, remove battery from car and give it a full charging, then leave to stand indoors overnight. In the morning before you move the battery check its voltage with an accurate voltmeter. The ideal voltage is 2.1 per cell making a total of 12.6 volts.
12.6 volts is good news! - 100% healthy
12.5 volts is not too bad
12.4 volts is marginal
Anything less and you will be buying a new battery
so if I lick the terminals it is that a good enough indication in absence of a voltmeter?No ... don't try this at home!
Alternatively, remove battery from car and give it a full charging, then leave to stand indoors overnight. In the morning before you move the battery check its voltage with an accurate voltmeter. The ideal voltage is 2.1 per cell making a total of 12.6 volts.
12.6 volts is good news! - 100% healthy
12.5 volts is not too bad
12.4 volts is marginal
Anything less and you will be buying a new battery
It's possible the battery is a bit knackered but good enough to start the car.
You may find that you have problems in the winter when it gets cold.
A partly charged battery freezes much quicker than a totally charged battery.
So, I assume that a slightly knackered battery will a freeze quickly too.
4 years life for a battery isn't bad going at all.
You may find that you have problems in the winter when it gets cold.
A partly charged battery freezes much quicker than a totally charged battery.
So, I assume that a slightly knackered battery will a freeze quickly too.
4 years life for a battery isn't bad going at all.
Absolutely – no point in wasting money.
But, I was in that situation before with one of my cars.
If I may offer a suggestion.
If, when the winter starts to bite, you find the car is having a bit of trouble starting then consider getting a new battery sooner rather than later.
It's very inconvenient to find a car with a totally dead frozen battery after a particularly cold night – and if the battery is totally dead then you can find various internal electronics will have reset, the alarm might have locked you out or forgotten any fobs besides the master one.
A lot of internal batteries only last for an hour or so for you to swap the battery – not all night.
If the car keeps starting fine every morning though, then be happy, and spend the cash on coke and hookahs.
But, I was in that situation before with one of my cars.
If I may offer a suggestion.
If, when the winter starts to bite, you find the car is having a bit of trouble starting then consider getting a new battery sooner rather than later.
It's very inconvenient to find a car with a totally dead frozen battery after a particularly cold night – and if the battery is totally dead then you can find various internal electronics will have reset, the alarm might have locked you out or forgotten any fobs besides the master one.
A lot of internal batteries only last for an hour or so for you to swap the battery – not all night.
If the car keeps starting fine every morning though, then be happy, and spend the cash on coke and hookahs.
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