Octavia Estate: 2.0TDI vs. 1.8TSI
Discussion
A used Octavia estate is a possible next car for me.
The most likely engine choices for me are the 2.0TDI (140) and the 1.8TSI (160).
What are the relative merits of these engines?
Real world economy, powerband, flexibility, reliability, drivign enjoyment etc.
-I know the general differences between diesel and petrol engines.
The most likely engine choices for me are the 2.0TDI (140) and the 1.8TSI (160).
What are the relative merits of these engines?
Real world economy, powerband, flexibility, reliability, drivign enjoyment etc.
-I know the general differences between diesel and petrol engines.
The 1.8TSI (160PS) engine is very flexible (torque flat-ish from 1,500 to 4,200 rpm), but doesnt have any real character (although no would the diesel).
If you're not doing high mileage, I would recommend the petrol for its extra refinement.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrive...
If you're not doing high mileage, I would recommend the petrol for its extra refinement.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrive...
Test drive both?
I'm a fan of petrol engines, so that choice would be a no-brainer for me but maybe your criteria is different?
The 1.8 TSI generally makes more power than advertised, plus you could remap if you wanted more.. (however same is true for the diesel)..)
Octy estate is a great car whatever the engine, but for me the "optimum" spec is a petrol vrs (check my profile).
I'm a fan of petrol engines, so that choice would be a no-brainer for me but maybe your criteria is different?
The 1.8 TSI generally makes more power than advertised, plus you could remap if you wanted more.. (however same is true for the diesel)..)
Octy estate is a great car whatever the engine, but for me the "optimum" spec is a petrol vrs (check my profile).
MC Bodge said:
I was thinking of a ~2008/9 model.
Is the PD model better/more reliable than the CR?
The general Internet consensus is that any diesel with a DPF will cost you lots of money in repairs. The CR has a DPF, the PD doesn't. The CR should be smoother, more refined and slightly more economical.Is the PD model better/more reliable than the CR?
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 13th September 15:03
How much weight you give to the loud minority who shout about their issues on the Internet is up to you.
We have a 2005 PD and has been a fabulous engine for a family car. Over 60mpg on a long motorway run at 70mph and provides 3 figure cruising speeds if you need it. We've had one component fail in the engine in 54000 miles, a throttle actuator value that was a couple hundred pounds to replace.
CR's smoother and supposed to be better on fuel, though someone's disputing the latter on the VAG engines thread. There have been a few people with injector or DPF issues on the CR engines but there seem to be a lot more scare stories than people actually having problems. My CR170 is on around 55k miles with no problems so far.
alock said:
The general Internet consensus is that any diesel with a DPF will cost you lots of money in repairs. The CR has a DPF, the PD doesn't.
That was my assumption and I'd prefer the response and powerband of a petrol (preferably a 3.0 na petrol, but a 1.8 turbo will do) or the 'relative' simplicity of a lower-tech diesel.alock said:
How much weight you give to the loud minority who shout about their issues on the Internet is up to you.
We have a 2005 PD and has been a fabulous engine for a family car. Over 60mpg on a long motorway run at 70mph and provides 3 figure cruising speeds if you need it. We've had one component fail in the engine in 54000 miles, a throttle actuator value that was a couple hundred pounds to replace.
I currently have an 04 Mondeo TDCI 130 on 98k, which the internet tells me should have destroyed its flywheel, lunched its fuel pump and blown all of its injectors at least twice.We have a 2005 PD and has been a fabulous engine for a family car. Over 60mpg on a long motorway run at 70mph and provides 3 figure cruising speeds if you need it. We've had one component fail in the engine in 54000 miles, a throttle actuator value that was a couple hundred pounds to replace.
The only issue I've had was a split turbo hose -easily replaced- and a failed oil cooler thermostat (which may be the source of many of the other TDCI issues if not diagnosed...)
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 13th September 15:36
MC Bodge said:
the 'relative' simplicity of a lower-tech diesel.
I'm not convinced that's the case these days. On my old Citroen ZX 1.9TD the most complex thing under the bonnet were the indicator relays, and at 196000 miles all the engine had needed besides oil changes was a new set of plugs. Modern diesels have gone high tech and that's surely got to effect the reliability. Mind you my current one puts out virtually twice the power from a similar sized engine which is a good thing.Edited by RizzoTheRat on Tuesday 13th September 16:45
RizzoTheRat]C Bodge said:
the 'relative' simplicity of a lower-tech diesel.
quote]
I'm not convinced that's the case these days.
I didn't make myself clear. I know that modern diesels are very complicated (I home service my Common-Rail Ford). I would prefer the 'relatively' less complex PD to the more complex CR with DPF though.quote]
I'm not convinced that's the case these days.
I'd ultimately prefer a big non-turbo petrol, but the fuel consumption (plus VED) makes them less appealing.
Edited by MC Bodge on Tuesday 13th September 16:28
I've got an Octavia 2.0 PD and had it for coming up to 3 years with no issues. I've put over 30,000 miles on it and only spent money on consumables.
It's a nice cruising car and does verything I need it to competantly. Lots of space in the back and cavernous boot. The fuel economy is not as good as I would expect but I have a very heavy right foot. I get on average about 35-40 mpg with a mix of town and motorway driving.
The car comes into it's own on the motorway with plenty of mid range power for easy overtaking. The main issues I've heard about is the turbo going, but I don't think it's any more of an issue than with other cars. Be warned it's no more refined than the 1.9 engine and sounds awful.
If I could go back I'd get the VRS, which was only a little more expensive and a lot more fun, but I thought I'd be sensible
Try both and see what you think.
It's a nice cruising car and does verything I need it to competantly. Lots of space in the back and cavernous boot. The fuel economy is not as good as I would expect but I have a very heavy right foot. I get on average about 35-40 mpg with a mix of town and motorway driving.
The car comes into it's own on the motorway with plenty of mid range power for easy overtaking. The main issues I've heard about is the turbo going, but I don't think it's any more of an issue than with other cars. Be warned it's no more refined than the 1.9 engine and sounds awful.
If I could go back I'd get the VRS, which was only a little more expensive and a lot more fun, but I thought I'd be sensible
Try both and see what you think.
MC Bodge said:
Anybody else have any experience of the 1.8TSI?
Yes, I've driven an Octavia and a Superb with the 1.8TSI. Does everything well enough, i had no complaints with either car I tried. Bought a diesel Superb (170CR) as the maths makes more sense for the mileage I do and I plan to keep it until it's around 5 years old. The 1.8 has enough performance and can obviously be chipped if you want a bit more. bought a 1.8tsi Octy Scout last month and so far am loving it. Has the torque character of a diesel with the blissful lack of diesel rattle and hum. Economy is settling at mid 30's mpg which is fine and seems to match the car overall very nicely.
If it helps, i arrived at the octavia off the back of an a6 avant 1.9 pd tdi (115bhp early one) and had done 185k miles with two head gasket failures and a set of refurbished pd injectors at a cool £720. Great car and economy for the size..when it worked! I decided i wanted a break from diesels LOL!
If it helps, i arrived at the octavia off the back of an a6 avant 1.9 pd tdi (115bhp early one) and had done 185k miles with two head gasket failures and a set of refurbished pd injectors at a cool £720. Great car and economy for the size..when it worked! I decided i wanted a break from diesels LOL!
On the subject of power/torque and remaps, I went from a mk1 Octavia vRS (re-mapped) hatch to the Mondeo TDCI 130 estate.
The straight-line performance of the Mondeo was obviously far less than that of the Octavia, but the ride, steering and general handling of the Mondeo were far superior which interests me more in a car these days and makes up significantly for the power deficit. The Mondeo running costs were also much lower!
Having become curious, I've started looking for re-maps of the TDI and the TSI, but I should stop immediately as it is just an arms race
In truth, the 130ps is adequate for good progress on twisting A and B-roads and only occasion that I've felt that the Mondeo really could have used more power was when I was on the German Autobahn in the summer with the A/C on. I needed to hold it in 5th for reasonable acceleration above 110mph. Maintaining 120mph required the pedal down to the stop and max speed was only 128mph. Even there, though, I was travelling much faster than most people I passed. (There may have been people travelling at similar speeds out of my view in front and behind, but I was only overtaken twice in a few hundred miles).
I also ride a 600cc bike which I enjoy and is faster than necessary for the road, so almost any car will feel slower on a straight.
One situation that I do find frustrating in the diesel is accelerating out of tight, low speed (uphill) corners. 1st is just too short (2nd not much better) and the engine feels stressed and sounds terrible when revved hard in those situations.
It's a shame that Ford don't do an equivalent to the 1.8TSI within my budget.
The straight-line performance of the Mondeo was obviously far less than that of the Octavia, but the ride, steering and general handling of the Mondeo were far superior which interests me more in a car these days and makes up significantly for the power deficit. The Mondeo running costs were also much lower!
Having become curious, I've started looking for re-maps of the TDI and the TSI, but I should stop immediately as it is just an arms race
In truth, the 130ps is adequate for good progress on twisting A and B-roads and only occasion that I've felt that the Mondeo really could have used more power was when I was on the German Autobahn in the summer with the A/C on. I needed to hold it in 5th for reasonable acceleration above 110mph. Maintaining 120mph required the pedal down to the stop and max speed was only 128mph. Even there, though, I was travelling much faster than most people I passed. (There may have been people travelling at similar speeds out of my view in front and behind, but I was only overtaken twice in a few hundred miles).
I also ride a 600cc bike which I enjoy and is faster than necessary for the road, so almost any car will feel slower on a straight.
One situation that I do find frustrating in the diesel is accelerating out of tight, low speed (uphill) corners. 1st is just too short (2nd not much better) and the engine feels stressed and sounds terrible when revved hard in those situations.
It's a shame that Ford don't do an equivalent to the 1.8TSI within my budget.
Edited by MC Bodge on Wednesday 14th September 11:47
s2driveruk said:
bought a 1.8tsi Octy Scout last month and so far am loving it. Has the torque character of a diesel with the blissful lack of diesel rattle and hum. Economy is settling at mid 30's mpg which is fine
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