Why has it never been copied....
Discussion
The 911 that is.....
If you look back through motoring history, most popular or successful designs, either in concept and layout or visual design have been copied to either a greater or lesser extent.
e.g.
Has there ever been a non Porsche car styled similarly to a 911? Or maybe of more interest, as Porsche has proven the rear engine setup to work and has always had a die-hard core of driving enthusiasts championing it. Why hasn't there been other rear engined performance cars?
If you look back through motoring history, most popular or successful designs, either in concept and layout or visual design have been copied to either a greater or lesser extent.
e.g.
Has there ever been a non Porsche car styled similarly to a 911? Or maybe of more interest, as Porsche has proven the rear engine setup to work and has always had a die-hard core of driving enthusiasts championing it. Why hasn't there been other rear engined performance cars?
jbi said:
300bhp/ton said:
Why hasn't there been other rear engined performance cars?
I'm amazed there's never been a more mass market 2 seat sports car, alla MR2, MGF, MX-5 price point thats taken more of a 911 point of view on layout and styling.
Ok I know the smart Roadster is almost rear engined, but not quite.
blueg33 said:
300bhp/ton said:
Or maybe of more interest, as Porsche has proven the rear engine setup to work
Not sure about that. When you read tests comparing a 911 with another sports car of a similar era eg Ferrari etc, the test normally has concerns about the handling of the rear engined car.I think all Porsche have proven that most of the inherent handling disadvantages of a rear-engined layout can be overcome if you spend 50 years and lots of money developing the platform. Yet despite all the time they've had to perfect the 911, the Cayman is still a better handling car in the eyes of many.
300bhp/ton said:
Or maybe of more interest, as Porsche has proven the rear engine setup to work and has always had a die-hard core of driving enthusiasts championing it. Why hasn't there been other rear engined performance cars?
As I understand it, it has taken many, many generations of 911 before it was finally "right". Early 911s are very unforgiving, are they not?neil_bmw said:
How good would the 911 have been if it was mid-engined? The back seats are next to useless anyway.
They just didn't wan't to admit they were wrong so engineered for the next 30 years to make it to work! That's why it has never been copied IMO
But over the years the design has been shown to add 'character' (whatever that means) and as such is a USP. Maybe without it the 911 wouldn't have been so good or successful?They just didn't wan't to admit they were wrong so engineered for the next 30 years to make it to work! That's why it has never been copied IMO
neil_bmw said:
How good would the 911 have been if it was mid-engined? The back seats are next to useless anyway.
They just didn't wan't to admit they were wrong so engineered for the next 30 years to make it to work! That's why it has never been copied IMO
caymen? it coud handle any power on engine set up the 911 has but isn't given it to avoid treading one the 911 marketThey just didn't wan't to admit they were wrong so engineered for the next 30 years to make it to work! That's why it has never been copied IMO
blueg33 said:
300bhp/ton said:
Or maybe of more interest, as Porsche has proven the rear engine setup to work
Not sure about that. When you read tests comparing a 911 with another sports car of a similar era eg Ferrari etc, the test normally has concerns about the handling of the rear engined car.300bhp/ton said:
Is that real concerns, or just stereotypical BS that some journo's feel obliged to state, as it was once stated by a couple of more famous ones some 40 years ago?
It was real concerns, in my experience. Early 911s are pretty hairy things past the limit; significantly worse than most of their mid engined competition. Of course they aren't as bad as journalists like to make out, because journalists always like to exaggerate things; but they do have their reputation for a reason. In some ways, putting the engine behind the rear axle is like putting it transversely in front of the front axle - a fundamental dynamic compromise for packing reasons. Of course putting the engine in the back does have major traction advantages over any other configuration in a 2wd car, which can't be said of the transverse FWD layout. However, with most high powered cars going 4WD these days, even that advantage is starting to vanish.
Edited by kambites on Friday 16th September 11:23
The 911 was derived from the 356 which in turn came from the engineering basics of the VW Beetle. That having been around since Hitler was an apprentice. As said above the 911 works because it's had many decades of evolution and many millions of deutschemarks poured into it's development. New ones, like just about everything now, have many electronic aids to help keep the rubber side down. Some similar ideas have been put into production, notably the Renault Alpines again as was mentioned above but basically the nearer the engine is to the centre of the car, the easier it is to make the car handle so rear engined isn't a good starting point.
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