Lack of awareness

[RWD cossie wil]

Not really a rant, more of an observation. My mrs had a puncture tonight on the M5, and gave me a ring to come & help her ( read change wheel for her!). I pulled up behind her, leaving a good gap between the cars, parked in the fend-off position, hazards & lights on.

Her car was already tight against the side of the hard shoulder, so I started changing the wheel while see stood behind the barrier. Bearing in mind it was on a nice straight bit of lit motorway, the amount of cars & HGV's that came rattling past on the inside lane was silly. I can appreciate on a busy motorway you probably couldn't move over, but at midnight surely it is safer for the driver & the immobilised party just to move over a lane & leave a bit of space?

I had one car drift onto the White line, to say I st myself Is an understatement, I was changing the offside rear tyre so was very close to lane 1 anyway. FFS look ahead further than the end of your nose & make a bit of space if you can, how many hard shoulder accidents could be avoided just by a bit of thinking?

I can see why the traffic wombles shut off lane 1 when there is a breakdown, most people are zombies behind the wheel

[FisiP1]

With the amount of lane swerving that goes on anyway, and peoples idea of lane 1 as being a more relaxed pace its never a good idea to be there, I'd personally just wait for a recovery.

Police pulling people for non critical reasons and dealing with them on the hard shoulder is also infuriating to see.

Its my opinion the only people that should be operating in a hard shoulder is either a recovery vehicle or emergency vehicles attending an accident up the road, not a fan of using it to 'ease' congestion either.

[sim16v]

You are actually lucky to survive the change!

A lot of fatal accidents occur on the hard shoulder!

[heebeegeetee]

sim16v said:

You are actually lucky to survive the change!

A lot of fatal accidents occur on the hard shoulder!

Er, I don't think the HS is remotely so bad that it makes one 'lucky to survive'.

[Horns]

I'd have waited for recovery I think. Changing a wheel at the side of a motorway is too risky.

[Vytalis]

sim16v said:

You are actually lucky to survive the change!

A lot of fatal accidents occur on the hard shoulder!

Oh well. Looks like the h&s mad politicians have won and got the general populace believing that all risk is bad and we should be saved from ourselves.

I wouldn't hesitate to change a wheel on a hard shoulder, calculated risk is fine IMHO.

[PGN 500sl]

sim16v said:

You are actually lucky to survive the change!

A lot of fatal accidents occur on the hard shoulder!

really? Show me some figures cos that stinks of H&S bandwagging.

[attym3]

RWD cossie wil said:

Not really a rant, more of an observation. My mrs had a puncture tonight on the M5, and gave me a ring to come & help her ( read change wheel for her!). I pulled up behind her, leaving a good gap between the cars, parked in the fend-off position, hazards & lights on.

Her car was already tight against the side of the hard shoulder, so I started changing the wheel while see stood behind the barrier. Bearing in mind it was on a nice straight bit of lit motorway, the amount of cars & HGV's that came rattling past on the inside lane was silly. I can appreciate on a busy motorway you probably couldn't move over, but at midnight surely it is safer for the driver & the immobilised party just to move over a lane & leave a bit of space?

I had one car drift onto the White line, to say I st myself Is an understatement, I was changing the offside rear tyre so was very close to lane 1 anyway. FFS look ahead further than the end of your nose & make a bit of space if you can, how many hard shoulder accidents could be avoided just by a bit of thinking?

I can see why the traffic wombles shut off lane 1 when there is a breakdown, most people are zombies behind the wheel

South bound at 10.30ish?

I think I saw you, I put my car half into lane 2 but the car in front of me didn't.

[paddyhasneeds]

heebeegeetee said:

sim16v said:

You are actually lucky to survive the change!

A lot of fatal accidents occur on the hard shoulder!

Er, I don't think the HS is remotely so bad that it makes one 'lucky to survive'.

You couldn't pay me to change a tyre, an offside tyre, on the hard shoulder, of a motorway, in the pitch black at midnight, with a bunch of tired drivers gunning past me.

I'd always assumed that there's a reason that they tell you very clearly to get our of your car and stand on the other side of the barriers and wait for recovery (not your husband) and that the reason is because it's a fking dangerous place to be.

Statistically you may well be right, but statistics don't make something a sensible thing to do just because nothing happened.

[heebeegeetee]

paddyhasneeds said:

You couldn't pay me to change a tyre, an offside tyre, on the hard shoulder, of a motorway, in the pitch black at midnight.

I'd always assumed that there's a reason that they tell you very clearly to get our of your car and stand on the other side of the barriers and wait for recovery (not your husband) and that the reason is because it's a fking dangerous place to be.

Statistically you may well be right, but statistics don't make something a sensible thing to do just because nothing happened.

Well, I'd describe Afghanistan as a fking dangerous place to be, not the hs of an m'way in the UK.

M'ways in the UK are very safe places to be. Statistically, the hs is less safe.
-

Personally speaking, I'm not comfortable with the notion of calling someone out to change a tyre. Firstly it means a space of safety or refuge is taken for longer than need be, the hazard of a car on an hs is there for longer than it need be, plus, I'm not sure about the transference of responsibility on to others. if a decision to take a car onto the roads is made, I'm not sure when or why this should become an issue for somebody else.

If a car is broken and cannot be fixed by the driver then fair enough, but if it can be fixed then the driver should take responsibility for his own actions - he put the car on the road and should remain responsible for it.

[Liquid Knight]

I got a puncture on the M6 and used a Police layby to get the wheel changed (you know those little raised ones off the hard shoulder?). Just as I finished and was about to get going a Police car rolled up behind me and put the blues on. the officer was telling me off for using an "emergency services only area" I explained the situation and added that I felt it was safer to change the wheel off the hard shoulder. the officer was about to argue when a lorry locked up avoiding someone who'd cut him up and the trailer swung across into the hard shoulder where I would have been.

Bought a lotto ticket on the way home and won a tenner.

[paddyhasneeds]

heebeegeetee said:

Well, I'd describe Afghanistan as a fking dangerous place to be, not the hs of an m'way in the UK.

So would I, but statistically you'd come back. Doesn't mean going there is especially sensible though.

I guess all I'm saying is that the notion that statistics make something an acceptable/sensible thing to do doesn't make it a good idea. Personally I'd have been calling for the recovery truck.

[heebeegeetee]

paddyhasneeds said:

So would I, but statistically you'd come back. Doesn't mean going there is especially sensible though.

I guess all I'm saying is that the notion that statistics make something an acceptable/sensible thing to do doesn't make it a good idea. Personally I'd have been calling for the recovery truck.

Personally I think that thinking the hs is effing dangerous is a sign of statistical madness.

However, if the hs is that bad, then maybe no work of any sort should be carried out on the hs, after all why should anyone lose their life just to change a wheel?

Maybe we've now reached the point whereby each time a vehicle stops on the hs, L1 should be coned off and the car should be picked up and taken away to be worked on in an area that would meet a full risk assessment.

For myself though I'm encumbered with an old fashioned sense of self responsibility, so I would have to quickly change the wheel myself.

[DonkeyApple]

I suspect that this is all part of the 'treat people like idiots and they will actually become idiots' effect that has hit so many aspects of society.

Cars do so much for people that I suspect many people when driving are functioning at a much lower level of awareness that they should.

[Maximum Bobs]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1333288.stm

This article thinks 250 people a year a killed or injured on the hard shoulder a year.

http://www.nicarfinder.co.uk/news/1643/Hard+Should...

This article thinks 1500 a year are killed or injured.

I don't know what the official figure is, but if it's only 250 that's a lot when you consider almost all of those could so easily be avoided.

I've personally seen the aftermath of two people being killed on the hard shoulder a few years ago. A couple were standing in the front of their car when it was hit by a lorry & they were crushed between their car & the metal barrier.

It always amazes me when people say our motorways are safe places to be because they simply aren't, statistically yes, but it only takes a split second to go from statistically safe to a life threatening situation.

Afghanistan? Ffs we're talking about people on a hard shoulder of British motorways.

[thinfourth2]

The tyre is probably toast after a puncture on a M-way

Drive to the next safe exit along the hard shoulder.

changing a wheel on the hard shoulder is relying on your fellow road users to be awake

[heebeegeetee]

Maximum Bobs said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1333288.stm

This article thinks 250 people a year a killed or injured on the hard shoulder a year.

http://www.nicarfinder.co.uk/news/1643/Hard+Should...

This article thinks 1500 a year are killed or injured.

I don't know what the official figure is, but if it's only 250 that's a lot when you consider almost all of those could so easily be avoided.

I've personally seen the aftermath of two people being killed on the hard shoulder a few years ago. A couple were standing in the front of their car when it was hit by a lorry & they were crushed between their car & the metal barrier.

It always amazes me when people say our motorways are safe places to be because they simply aren't, statistically yes, but it only takes a split second to go from statistically safe to a life threatening situation.

Afghanistan? Ffs we're talking about people on a hard shoulder of British motorways.

I'm always amazed when people say that the roads (of whichever sort) in the uk are dangerous, because they're not.

Every single day some 50 million people take to the roads in one way or another i reckon, and every day well in excess of 99.9% return home safely.

Quoting figures of 250 or whatever, out of context of the millions using the m'ways day in day out, is pretty meaningless.

[fatboy b]

I thought it was illegal to help someone who's broken down on a motorway unless you're a breakdown company.

[Horns]

I don't know about illegal, but its certainly contrary to all good advice.

I think there's a little macho posturing going on here. Real men change their own tyres. Personally, I've called out a recovery service to change a wheel when I wasn't even on a motorway. I pay them enough, after all, why not make use of the service?

[R0G]

The driver is supposed to use the emergency phones on the motorway to inform the authorities of their situation or use mobile phone with exact location details if they have safety fears.
The authorities will then decide what action needs to be taken to ensure safety.

The driver who ignores that advice puts themselves and others at risk