Just passed my driving test - car options - advice needed

[Chunk49]

Just passed my test this week! Very pleased! Considering whether or not to get a car and if so what kind, and would welcome some advice.

Thoughts on bullet proof, safe, not liable to get me done for speeding, low insurance group, second-hand cars for about £2,000 - £3,000 which are also appropriate for the 26 year old gent about town?

Once I have a few suggestions for cars on the board, I intend to post my progress re searching for, viewing and eventually buying a car, and, having never done any of those things before, your help and the help of the PH will be really useful to me and I thank you all in advance. I am aware of how man-maths can make a £2,000 - £3,000 budget into a £4,000 - £5,000 budget very easily, but as this will be my first car and one I keep for max 2 years to get some NCB, I'd rather keep the costs as low as sensibly/realistically possible.

By way of background information:

- I'm 26 but as I've just passed my test (a) I don't know much about buying cars; and (b) insurance is still very expensive - just been quoted £1,000 - £6,000 to insure a leased Citroen C1...

- I don't actually need a car for anything (live and work in central London) - it would just be fun to be able to use one at the weekends (mainly) if I fancied a day trip into the countryside out of london/into europe or on the odd occaision we needed to buy something from a shop that didn't deliver.

- given we don't actually need a car, I don't want to either spend big on a car in terms of purchase price / rental (as I hope to use my existing savings for a flat deposit soon), nor do I want to spend big in terms of maintining a cheap, old car that turns into a money pit

- I have an off-road parking space for the car at our flat so this cost/hassle isn't an issue currently, although could be if we moved

- I don't fancy getting points for speeding in a big engined car during 2 yr probabtion period and having to do the bloody test again

- weather in london probably good enough to justify a convertible but I don't like them

- I am a serial lurker of the porsche forum on PH and was thinking of posting it there but think it is going to be quite a while before I buy my dream 911!

My thoughts currently are as follows:

1. Do nothing until my 2 yr license probabtion expires, and then consider buying/leasing a car I will enjoy; or

2. Become a named driver on my mum and dad's car with an insurer that allows me to build my own "no claims" (however, mum and dad live up North and I'm in London so I'd only be able to drive it the occasional weekend) - I've heard this is now possible but I know nothing about it - do you?; or

3. Buy a small, cheap (say £2k) small-engined car and run it for 2 yrs to build "no claims" and so it is difficult to pick up points while on the probation period; or

4. Lease a small, cheap new car on a 2 yr lease contract for about £150 a month, to build "no claims" and so it is difficult to pick up points while on the probabtion period, and then hand the car back after 2 yrs and consider buying a car I might enjoy; or

5. Find out if any hire car companies allow drivers with less than 12 months from passing their test hire cars - I do not know of any though, the ones I've come across say at least 12 months (even if over 25) - do you know of any? They all seem to say at last 12 months; or

6. Do nothing for 1 yr / buy a small cheap car for 1 yr / lease a small cheap car for one year, until I can periodically hire a car as when I need it here in London.


In relation to any of your suggestions that involve me actually owning/leasing a car on a full term basis, would you be able to recommend any!? I don't know where to start other than one day I'm going to have a 911 and Volvos are good family cars.

Thanks in advance and thanks for reading this far!

Edited by Chunk49 on Sunday 2nd October 22:59

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Edited by Chunk49 on Sunday 2nd October 23:40

Edited by Chunk49 on Sunday 2nd October 23:41

[bluebear]

get on the price comparison sites. and get quote for loads of cars.

[Twincharged]

Unfortunately, even when starting to drive in your mid-twenties, insurance companies place a fair amount of weight on experience. Therefore, quotes are going to seem (relatively) expensive. However, if you ever want to have the experience/NCB to have a 911 and have affordable insurance, having a car on your own policy is the way forward. Although many companies offer NCB to named drivers, it's not transferable (in my experience) to other insurers, so not really worth bothering with.

In terms of what car to buy, I'd keep plugging the quotes in to see which cars are the cheapest to insure- groups are just a general guide. It's probably worth looking at used cars rather than new ones as well, as something new will be subject to a lot of depreciation over the first few years, and will be money down the drain- just like expensive insurance premuims. Get something to get a few years experience, and put the rest of the money towards something more exciting in the future.

Hopefully, there should be some decent suggestions of cheap cars to insure from other PH'ers experience...

[Chunk49]

Thanks for the replies so far - some food for thought - especially re if I just wait for 2 yrs I'll pretty much just be in the same position re lack of experience/no NCB.

[edo]

on one hand you want to build some ncb, on the other it will definately be cheaper to hire a car on the weekends you need one....

[DanielJames]

I would get a cheap car for a few years as you learn how to drive

Something like a Fiesta 1.25

[D1ngd0ng]

I passed my test at 27. Drove a 1.4 rover 25 for my first year, then a golf gti for year 2 (same insurance premium) now hoon it around in a company barge. If you live in London do you really need a car? Honestly think about asking to go on parents insurance8 and drive that when you can to stay current but I found it easy enough to get by without.

[Chunk49]

Yes if I could just hire one for weekends right now I would prob do that but ll hire companies seem to want drivers to have had their license at least 12 months (fairly understandable). But given I can't do for 12 months I'm tempted to get a cheap £2k car now, which (a) allows me use of a car; and (b) builds my NCB. However, downside is as pointed out it would be much quicker than a Streetcar hired at about £5 per hour (including insurance) as and when on a weekend. Decisions!

I've just managed to play with the confused.com configurator and putting my mum as a named driver, together with a combined excess of £650, got the quote down from just over a grand to £905. So if I leased the Citroen C1 it would be approx £175 p/month for car and insurance. This would be a total cost of £4200 over 2 years. Seems to me that if I can get an OK small second-hand car for about £2k and I can get insured on it for say £1500 or less, then I could potentially save money over the leased Citroen C1. On other hand, if I bought a money pit dog of a car, it could be a pain in the ass and cost more for the privelege.

Thoughts on bullet proof, small engined, low insurance group, second-hand cars for about £2,000 which are also appropriate for the 26 year old gent about town?

[Chunk49]

D1ngd0ng said:

I passed my test at 27. Drove a 1.4 rover 25 for my first year, then a golf gti for year 2 (same insurance premium) now hoon it around in a company barge. If you live in London do you really need a car? Honestly think about asking to go on parents insurance8 and drive that when you can to stay current but I found it easy enough to get by without.

Thanks for your input - can't believe Rover 25 same premium as Golf GTI! The world's gone mad. I live in London, as I stated in the background part of my OP, I do not in fact need a car at all, for that very reason. My parents live up North so would just be the occasional weekend that I would be able to drive their car, although better than nothing!

[Sir Bagalot]

Google Car Hire Excess insurance and buy an annual policy.

Hire a car as and when needed

[Chunk49]

Sir Bagalot said:

Google Car Hire Excess insurance and buy an annual policy.

Hire a car as and when needed

I really don't think that's the issue at hand. The fact is that hire car companies will not hire cars to drivers who have held their license for less than 12 months i.e. like me.

[Synchromesh]

Hi Chunk and welcome to PH

I've got two point to raise with you. Firstly you talk about the finances of the decision between leasing and buying:

Chunk49 said:

So if I leased the Citroen C1 it would be approx £175 p/month for car and insurance. This would be a total cost of £4200 over 2 years. Seems to me that if I can get an OK small second-hand car for about £2k and I can get insured on it for say £1500 or less, then I could potentially save money over the leased Citroen C1. On other hand, if I bought a money pit dog of a car, it could be a pain in the ass and cost more for the privelege.

However, what you neglect is that if you leased a car, you'd have no ownership of it at the end, and you'd be back to square one in terms of saving for a 'proper' car. If you bought, for example, as you say, a used car worth £2k, it is likely to be worth around £1.5k after two years, meaning your actual cost of having that car (i.e. the depreciation) is only £500. Another way of looking at it is that you'd have a £1.5k 'head start' towards your next car. However, bear in mind a used car of that value will be more expensive to run in other respects (e.g. MOT needed, likely higher fuel consumption, no warranty if things go wrong, etc.) than a leased motor.

My second point is that I have a bone to pick with regards to your fixation on the 'probationary period' (i.e. the first two years of driving, where only 6 points may be accrued before disqualification from driving). To quote vonhosen from another thread "You speed either because you choose to, or you don't pay sufficient attention to [your driving]". Therefore if you choose to not exceed the speed limit, and concentrate on your driving, it is very very unlikely you'll even get points within your first two years of driving. I'm not trying to purvey a 'holier than thou' attitude, (at least don't take it that way) but we all make our own decisions in our driving, so if you don't want points, make the choice to drive in a way that won't get you any. You can have plenty of fun in a humble motor at well below the speed limit.

[V8Triumph]

Buy a classic Something like an MGB GT - it'll be cheaper for you to insure and much more fun than an eco-box

[Chunk49]

Synchromesh said:

Hi Chunk and welcome to PH

I've got two point to raise with you. Firstly you talk about the finances of the decision between leasing and buying:

Chunk49 said:

So if I leased the Citroen C1 it would be approx £175 p/month for car and insurance. This would be a total cost of £4200 over 2 years. Seems to me that if I can get an OK small second-hand car for about £2k and I can get insured on it for say £1500 or less, then I could potentially save money over the leased Citroen C1. On other hand, if I bought a money pit dog of a car, it could be a pain in the ass and cost more for the privelege.

However, what you neglect is that if you leased a car, you'd have no ownership of it at the end, and you'd be back to square one in terms of saving for a 'proper' car. If you bought, for example, as you say, a used car worth £2k, it is likely to be worth around £1.5k after two years, meaning your actual cost of having that car (i.e. the depreciation) is only £500. Another way of looking at it is that you'd have a £1.5k 'head start' towards your next car. However, bear in mind a used car of that value will be more expensive to run in other respects (e.g. MOT needed, likely higher fuel consumption, no warranty if things go wrong, etc.) than a leased motor.

My second point is that I have a bone to pick with regards to your fixation on the 'probationary period' (i.e. the first two years of driving, where only 6 points may be accrued before disqualification from driving). To quote vonhosen from another thread "You speed either because you choose to, or you don't pay sufficient attention to [your driving]". Therefore if you choose to not exceed the speed limit, and concentrate on your driving, it is very very unlikely you'll even get points within your first two years of driving. I'm not trying to purvey a 'holier than thou' attitude, (at least don't take it that way) but we all make our own decisions in our driving, so if you don't want points, make the choice to drive in a way that won't get you any. You can have plenty of fun in a humble motor at well below the speed limit.

Thanks for the advice, and well noted re re-sale value and actual loss, that is a good point. I could stretch to maybe £3,000 if this would significantly lower the chance of the car being a money pit. Assuming I can afford £3,000 (I can) do you think this is a better budget to be working from realistically?

Re speeding - yes that's a good point well made - and trust me I am not planning on speeding, I think the fixation with the 2 yr probabtion is simply the fear of having to go through the hassle of the test and lessons all over again. I work pretty long hours and its been a struggle fitting it in!

Re the comment about the MG, would love something like that but being a fairly cautious type, I don't fancy my chances in one of those if some idiot in a RangeRover decides to do something stupid if you know what I mean.

[aizvara]

Chunk49 said:

The fact is that hire car companies will not hire cars to drivers who have held their license for less than 12 months i.e. like me.

Exactly what I found when I passed my test at 32. I didn't need a car, hiring would have made the most sense, but no go as you've found.

A change of circumstances meant I actually did need a car of my own, however. I found with no NCB or experience, that most cars cost the same to insure; in the region of 900-1500 (best prices). So I went for something more interesting, and toward the top of that scale. More common cars like 1.6 Focuses and similar seemed to be almost as expensive to insure as my 325i, which made it an easy decision. I'd suggest trying to find something unusual for a first car; a cheap reliable barge perhaps (LS400?).

Points-wise - just don't drive too fast. I've a moderately capable car, and its not been a problem yet.

Good luck!

[Chunk49]

aizvara said:

Exactly what I found when I passed my test at 32. I didn't need a car, hiring would have made the most sense, but no go as you've found.

A change of circumstances meant I actually did need a car of my own, however. I found with no NCB or experience, that most cars cost the same to insure; in the region of 900-1500 (best prices). So I went for something more interesting, and toward the top of that scale. More common cars like 1.6 Focuses and similar seemed to be almost as expensive to insure as my 325i, which made it an easy decision. I'd suggest trying to find something unusual for a first car; a cheap reliable barge perhaps (LS400?).

Points-wise - just don't drive too fast. I've a moderately capable car, and its not been a problem yet.

Good luck!

Thanks for your thoughts!

Which car did you go for that was "at the top of the scale"? The 325i? Yes but surely a 1.0 Citroen C1 would be much cheaper than a 325i to insure? I may check that out out of interest on confused.com at some point.

Living in central London I don't particularly want a massive car, but if I'm honest I'd rather a bigger car than a smaller car if pushed, due to bigger cars being a bit more "manly" etc.

[davepoth]

You live in London, the answer is the Fiat Panda. A 1.1 Active will be available in your price range, group 1 insurance, cheap as chips to run around town, and it's impressively narrow for getting through little gaps. They are fun little cars to drive too. If you find an Active Eco I think you get even cheaper tax.

There are other bonuses, although they might not seem like it. All of the plastics are plain black, which makes them much cheaper to replace if they get damaged. The wing mirrors are manual and again black plastic which makes them much cheaper to replace if broken (and as a new driver in London it's always possible) and the non metallic paint it will come with is much cheaper to repair.

With very little to go wrong it'll give you a couple of years cheap motoring before you can go and buy the inevitable MX-5.

[Chunk49]

davepoth said:

You live in London, the answer is the Fiat Panda. A 1.1 Active will be available in your price range, group 1 insurance, cheap as chips to run around town, and it's impressively narrow for getting through little gaps. They are fun little cars to drive too. If you find an Active Eco I think you get even cheaper tax.

There are other bonuses, although they might not seem like it. All of the plastics are plain black, which makes them much cheaper to replace if they get damaged. The wing mirrors are manual and again black plastic which makes them much cheaper to replace if broken (and as a new driver in London it's always possible) and the non metallic paint it will come with is much cheaper to repair.

With very little to go wrong it'll give you a couple of years cheap motoring before you can go and buy the inevitable MX-5.

Thanks Dave - this is just the kind of "from experience" advice I need, and experience which I lack!

And you obviously read minds too as the MX-5 will have to get done at some point!

Any other suggestions to add to the Fiat Panda?

[aizvara]

Chunk49 said:

Thanks for your thoughts!

Which car did you go for that was "at the top of the scale"? The 325i? Yes but surely a 1.0 Citroen C1 would be much cheaper than a 325i to insure? I may check that out out of interest on confused.com at some point.

Living in central London I don't particularly want a massive car, but if I'm honest I'd rather a bigger car than a smaller car if pushed, due to bigger cars being a bit more "manly" etc.

Yeah, I went for the BMW; the "scale" only really covered sensibleish cars, and for me it came down to a couple of saloons (though I did check 911s and M5s out of interest). I did go through a fair range of cars when searching, mostly using comparison sites, then some calls to various other insurers like APlan, DirectLine and Adrian Flux (finally went with Elephant). I found that if the car was something you'd think of as a normal first car, it was expensive to insure (for what it was). I was pretty much all set up for buying a four-door bottom-of-the-range old Focus, but insurance-wise I could get much more car for the same money. Unfortunately, a C1 wouldn't have been on my list, as its too small; my GF and I had a baby on the way. Its quite possible these things are different for a 26 year old, and certainly something like a C1 is worth looking into. Or the panda; that's what I'd like to get the GF.

Agreed about not wanting a massive car; I think an e46 is about right for me, but I do still want a 5 series or even an XJ, but they do seem huge.

Definitely try the comparison sites.

[Chunk49]

davepoth said:

You live in London, the answer is the Fiat Panda. A 1.1 Active will be available in your price range, group 1 insurance, cheap as chips to run around town, and it's impressively narrow for getting through little gaps. They are fun little cars to drive too. If you find an Active Eco I think you get even cheaper tax.

There are other bonuses, although they might not seem like it. All of the plastics are plain black, which makes them much cheaper to replace if they get damaged. The wing mirrors are manual and again black plastic which makes them much cheaper to replace if broken (and as a new driver in London it's always possible) and the non metallic paint it will come with is much cheaper to repair.

With very little to go wrong it'll give you a couple of years cheap motoring before you can go and buy the inevitable MX-5.

Looking at some Pandas now - I'm liking the solid (bright-ish) blue colour - very sporty!! I suppose they won't have aircon for that money...

Was looking at the Pandas on Autotrader. What's people's thoughts as to whether to buy privately through an add on autotrader, by from a dealer with an add on autotrader, or go to an official Fiat (or other manufacturer) dealiship and buy direct? I imagine dealer prices will be more expensive than private, but in terms of mitigating chances of buying a dog. Obviously for about £2,500 I probably wouldn't pay a few hundred quid for an inspection, so would the security of buying from a Fiat dealer be worth it for the peace of mind (if any) that might give?