UK justice system a joke?
Discussion
I don't usually watch the Police, Camera, Action type programmes but caught some of Motorway Cops last night (as was waiting for Nevermind the Buzzcocks). Was genuinely shocked about the pathetic sentences handed out. One driver was stopped as he wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Was a stroke of luck for the coppers as the driver had previously been caught (also on film in another BBC series) driving illegally. This time he was caught in a car without a licence, without insurance (obviously) and the car had no MOT (it was a 12-year old Nissan Almera - presumably worth nothing). His punishment? If I remember correctly it was a fine of around £15 plus endorsements on his (non-existent) licence. He didn't bother to collect the car and it was crushed (most likely because he had probably bought another shed for nothing and was driving around again). No wonder there are so many non-insured drivers on UK roads if that is the best the justice system can deliver.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8272054.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8272054.stm
It really hacks me off as well, just look at that Dale Farm cock up with the 
s blatently in the wrong on so many levels, yet still being able to play the system delaying it & costing us tax payers a fortune!
Drivers its the same, i've all but given up watching these programs as its just frustrating watching them get away with such light sentences!
s blatently in the wrong on so many levels, yet still being able to play the system delaying it & costing us tax payers a fortune!Drivers its the same, i've all but given up watching these programs as its just frustrating watching them get away with such light sentences!
E30M3SE said:
I saw that, he was caught in a stolen van in the previous program.
What would you have done with him?
He is obviously a serial offender, so even if he was sent to prison guess what he would probably do the first day he was released....................
Death penalty, or failing that, turn an island somewhere into the biggest prison except don't bother with wardens etc just automated weapons to stop them leaving the island. Sterilize them too, hopefully that'd stop it spreading a bit. If these people have no respect for the law / other people then we should show them no respect in return.What would you have done with him?
He is obviously a serial offender, so even if he was sent to prison guess what he would probably do the first day he was released....................
The fine in a non-custodial offence case (such as this) has to be pitched as a punishment based on his income. What the courts are not allowed to do is set a person up to fail because the remedy for non-payment of fine sIS a period of custody. In essence, it is therfore seen as a "back door route" to imprisonment which flies in the face of the offence being non-custodial and fills up the prisons with the wrong people.
Similarly, they cannot impose a fine which wopuld leave him destitute if he paid it.
Doubtless the defence solicitor told the court a hard luck story and claimed he had paid a lot of cash for the car which he'd now lost so that counts as "punishment" to some degree.
Similarly, they cannot impose a fine which wopuld leave him destitute if he paid it.
Doubtless the defence solicitor told the court a hard luck story and claimed he had paid a lot of cash for the car which he'd now lost so that counts as "punishment" to some degree.
ludicrous speed said:
The more people who drive, the more petrol is bought, the more money is generated for the government. Fine them when they fk up, but don't ban them for too long because they won't be able to pay the various taxes that go with motoring.
Interesting argument but you have to weigh up the costs caused by uninsured drivers and who bears those costs - it certainly isn't the insurance companies as they try to make a profit so it must be law-abiding drivers via higher insurance premiums. k up, but don't ban them for too long because they won't be able to pay the various taxes that go with motoring.E30M3SE said:
I saw that, he was caught in a stolen van in the previous program.
What would you have done with him?
He is obviously a serial offender, so even if he was sent to prison guess what he would probably do the first day he was released....................
I don't know the answer unfortunately. Suggestions of capital punishment or the like are just plain silly. But what to do? If you send such people to prison then there is a huge cost to the taxpayer. And often putting petty criminals inside just turns them into hardened criminals (or unemployable and so a permanent drain on resources). What would you have done with him?
He is obviously a serial offender, so even if he was sent to prison guess what he would probably do the first day he was released....................
I think you need to have a system which makes it much harder to drive uninsured. Here in Switzerland the number plates belong to the canton and not the driver. You can only get a number plate if you provide the registration document for the car plus proof of insurance. And the registration document includes the date of the last MOT, which here in Switzerland is a proper test done by the authorities (I suspect a large percentage of UK cars more than a few years old would fail the Swiss test). That means that in general any cars registered in Switzerland and driven are both road-worthy and insured. If applied in the UK you would probably find there were quite a few people that could no longer afford to own a car because there would be no really cheap cars and it would be much harder to drive without insurance. I know that wouldn't be popular for some but overall probably good for society (and for the law-abiding driver).
E30M3SE said:
nonuts said:
Death penalty,
Really.........Schnellmann said:
I don't know the answer unfortunately. Suggestions of capital punishment or the like are just plain silly. But what to do? If you send such people to prison then there is a huge cost to the taxpayer. And often putting petty criminals inside just turns them into hardened criminals (or unemployable and so a permanent drain on resources).
I think you need to have a system which makes it much harder to drive uninsured. Here in Switzerland the number plates belong to the canton and not the driver. You can only get a number plate if you provide the registration document for the car plus proof of insurance. And the registration document includes the date of the last MOT, which here in Switzerland is a proper test done by the authorities (I suspect a large percentage of UK cars more than a few years old would fail the Swiss test). That means that in general any cars registered in Switzerland and driven are both road-worthy and insured. If applied in the UK you would probably find there were quite a few people that could no longer afford to own a car because there would be no really cheap cars and it would be much harder to drive without insurance. I know that wouldn't be popular for some but overall probably good for society (and for the law-abiding driver).
But Switzerland is full of Swiss people and rich expats, who on the whole are probably very law abiding. The UK has a high % of lowlife who continually get away with it. Could we export a few million of then to you Please! I think you need to have a system which makes it much harder to drive uninsured. Here in Switzerland the number plates belong to the canton and not the driver. You can only get a number plate if you provide the registration document for the car plus proof of insurance. And the registration document includes the date of the last MOT, which here in Switzerland is a proper test done by the authorities (I suspect a large percentage of UK cars more than a few years old would fail the Swiss test). That means that in general any cars registered in Switzerland and driven are both road-worthy and insured. If applied in the UK you would probably find there were quite a few people that could no longer afford to own a car because there would be no really cheap cars and it would be much harder to drive without insurance. I know that wouldn't be popular for some but overall probably good for society (and for the law-abiding driver).
Jasandjules said:
The UK justice is a complete joke, if you have nothing to lose then you don't get punished, but if you have a job/house etc you can get destroyed for the same crime that some career criminal gets a slap on the wrists for.
That is sort of the point – although it doesn't work these days.If I commit a petty crime, I'll probably lose my job, so, I'll lose my house and so forth.
I don't want that to happen, so I don't commit a crime.
Deterrence works.
In my youth when I got into a touch of trouble, my first thoughts about getting a criminal record were that I would never be able to travel to America,
(not that I got a criminal record, I just got told to stop being a pratt by the man in the silly hat.) but that one close shave put the fear of god into me, and I was pretty straight laced afterwards.
This is, I think, what cautions and warning are for/
For any larger crimes, frankly the thought of spending time in jail terrifies me. I've seen Shoreshank Redemption – and I'm a very handsome man.
But, there's an underclass of people who have nothing to lose.
They won't ever travel to America. They don't have a job to lose.
They don't care about fines (they won't pay) or community service (they won't show up) or court cases (they won't show up).
The thought of a few days in jail doesn't bother them, it's just part of life for them, and when they get out they just carry on.
They do have the same punishment as the middle class chap - it's just that it has less of an impact on them.
It is screwed up.
But, there's no punishment, deterrent or rehabilitation that works right now.
Anyway – that's all a bit sobering.
Back to talking about cars.
jvl said:
MX7 said:
It's Catch22 now. The guy has so many offences that insurance on a moped will be thousands, so he will never drive legally. I'm not trying to justify his actions, but I find it difficult to think of a solution.
He should ride the busSchnellmann said:
[ Here in Switzerland the number plates belong to the canton and not the driver. You can only get a number plate if you provide the registration document for the car plus proof of insurance.
They use something similar in Australia as far as I remember, and each year you get a different colour, so you stand out like a sore thumb if you don't comply.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff