Garage playing funny buggers!
Discussion
Posting for a friend at work - Mods, please keep in GG as more traffic for his query! 
Thanks! 
Story Goes:
- Buys Car (MG ZR on 54 plate)
- Car keeps overheating
- Garage identify the headgasket as the problem and "replace" it.
- Car keeps overheating
- Garage identify the headgasket as the problem and "replace" it.
- Car keeps overheating
- Garage apoligise prefusley and promise to get it fixed. Gets sent to an MG specialist and the garage promise to pick up the bill. They provide him with courtesy car on each occassion of the car going in for repair.
- Garage fail to pay MG specialist, and they won't release the car.
- Garage ring my friend and say the he diliberatley tampered with the expansion tank lid which caused it to overheat and want him to pay for the repairs.
- Friend says "No thanks" with a capitol F to which they replied they would take him to court. They want to meet with him tonight to "mediate" and come to an agreement. We all advised him not to go alone, so he rang the garage out of courtesy to advise them he would bring a friend along. They then kicked off saying he was "flexing his muscles" over the phone. (he is quite powerfully built).
What is to be done PH?
I have suggested the following:
- Smash their back doors in.
- Throw a can of RedBull at them.
- Nuke from Orbit.
- Sell ZR buy an MX-5.
- Sell ZR, buy 335d and remap accordingly.
P.s don't shoot the messenger if you have any questions, I can ask my friend and post a reply...
Cheers
Mikey
Thanks! Story Goes:
- Buys Car (MG ZR on 54 plate)
- Car keeps overheating
- Garage identify the headgasket as the problem and "replace" it.
- Car keeps overheating
- Garage identify the headgasket as the problem and "replace" it.
- Car keeps overheating
- Garage apoligise prefusley and promise to get it fixed. Gets sent to an MG specialist and the garage promise to pick up the bill. They provide him with courtesy car on each occassion of the car going in for repair.
- Garage fail to pay MG specialist, and they won't release the car.
- Garage ring my friend and say the he diliberatley tampered with the expansion tank lid which caused it to overheat and want him to pay for the repairs.
- Friend says "No thanks" with a capitol F to which they replied they would take him to court. They want to meet with him tonight to "mediate" and come to an agreement. We all advised him not to go alone, so he rang the garage out of courtesy to advise them he would bring a friend along. They then kicked off saying he was "flexing his muscles" over the phone. (he is quite powerfully built).
What is to be done PH?
I have suggested the following:
- Smash their back doors in.
- Throw a can of RedBull at them.
- Nuke from Orbit.
- Sell ZR buy an MX-5.
- Sell ZR, buy 335d and remap accordingly.
P.s don't shoot the messenger
if you have any questions, I can ask my friend and post a reply...Cheers
Mikey
Edited by Mikeyplum on Thursday 13th October 13:26
It sounds like the original garage misdiagnosed the issue and jumped to the HGf conclusion and the specialist has now made them look stupid by diagnosing the filler cap on the exdpansion tank as the fault (though this isn't clear). What have the MG specialists done?
In the meantime, the MG Specialists have a lien until the bill is paid and that falls to your friend who will have to sue the original garage himself.
In the meantime, the MG Specialists have a lien until the bill is paid and that falls to your friend who will have to sue the original garage himself.
ShredderXLE said:
"tampered with the expansion tank lid"
How exactly? Not screwing it down properly? What could you possibly do to a plastic cap on the header tank that would cause overheating that either replacing the cap or putting it on properly would not fix.
Some people overtighten past the last screw so ruining the tank thread and the cap will never tighten thereafter so will always leak and the car will overheat.How exactly? Not screwing it down properly? What could you possibly do to a plastic cap on the header tank that would cause overheating that either replacing the cap or putting it on properly would not fix.
jacobpalmer05 said:
How much is the specialists repair bill? It doesn't seem like they did a lot of work, so surely it's just eaiser to pay them direct and be done with it all?
There isn't one (see below update)Dr Interceptor said:
How much of the above conversation is in writing?
If none of it... pay the specialist, enjoy the car.
Pretty much all of it, invoices of repairs etc. Email back and forth. He also chats to them from work where calls are recorded (not sure if he informed them of this though so may be useless)If none of it... pay the specialist, enjoy the car.
LuS1fer said:
What have the MG specialists done?
Played the Blame Game (see below update)ShredderXLE said:
"tampered with the expansion tank lid"
How exactly? Not screwing it down properly? What could you possibly do to a plastic cap on the header tank that would cause overheating that either replacing the cap or putting it on properly would not fix.
Apparently he removed the O ring so that the pressure escaped (their words not mine).How exactly? Not screwing it down properly? What could you possibly do to a plastic cap on the header tank that would cause overheating that either replacing the cap or putting it on properly would not fix.
Update:
Apparently, the MG Specialist inspected the engine of the car, then told the Garage that my friend had deliberatley tampered with it resulting in a total seizure. So now the Garage want my friend to foot the bill of the inspection by the MG Specialist as well as sorting the seized engine out himself.
This is what I told him (copied from email):
they are holding YOUR car against your will… at least this is TWOC (taking without owners consent) which comes under the Road Traffic Act. It may be worth getting the plod involved to get your car back via that angle…
It is up to them to then take you to Court… which I doubt they will have a leg to stand on! They cannot categorically prove you tampered with the lid, its your word against theirs… you could counterclaim saying they tampered with it in order to extort money from you… you wont have a leg to stand on, but it will chuck a spanner in the works for them like…
How long had you had the car before you took it back the first time? 3 Weeks FYI
In my opinion, you have acted in accordance with the sales of goods act by giving them sufficient amount of attempts to rectify the situation, they have failed to do so and you are entitles to a full refund… I think this may be the way a judge sees it too...
Have you thought about talking to a solicitor? Even if it’s a No win No fee thing… they normally give you the first consultation free, they will then tell you whether you have a case or not…
ETA - I May be wrong
ShredderXLE said:
Surely in that case the missing o-ring would cause hissing / spitting when the engine was up to temperature, would be easy to spot and cost pence to put right. Did the garage not start the engine up at any point either before or after changing the head gasket (twice)
He isn't the most car savvy, but did notice water underneath his car and a "bubbling"sound coming from the engine now and then. But took it straight back to the garage whenevr he saw/heard this. I told him if it was as simple as the expansion tank lid, the garage sgould have checked this first. At least, IME, you always start with the cheapest bit first, then work your way up to avoid unecessary cost...
The Spruce goose said:
the engine has now seized, how long had it been run with no water..
also this is a civil matter.
Not entirely sure. also this is a civil matter.
He pciked it up after the 5th, yes 5th Headgasket replacement and it also had the head skimmed. He drove it for around 4/5 days at about 30 miles a day and it failed in a puff of steam.
The MG Specialists said the it could only have been driven for arounf 4/5 miles with no O ring on it before seizing, thus it must have been him who had removed the O ring.
I have checked, and the MG Specialists are in no way connected to the Garage
Mikeyplum said:
they are holding YOUR car against your will… at least this is TWOC (taking without owners consent) which comes under the Road Traffic Act. It may be worth getting the plod involved to get your car back via that angle…
100% not TWOC (which is under the Theft Act, not the Road Traffic Act) and the police will not investigate as it is entirely a civil matter, and not a criminal one.
The car was entrusted to the MG specialist by your friend and he remains liable to pay, regardless of anything else. The garage is entitled to keep the car in exercise of their lien on the car (the value of the work that remains in the car) and in the event he doesn't pay, they can sell it.
Your friend then has to prove his case against the original garage and contrary to your advice, He has to prove they are at fault on the balance of probabilities. If the MG specialist has come down in favour of the original garage, the chances of him doing that are about nil though who can say what has happened to the car while it has been at the MG specialist?
The difficulty in cases like this is knowing when to cut your losses and walk away and get shot of it. A solicitor wouldn't touch this with a barge pole IMO as the no win no fee is rather dependent on them recovering their costs off the other side and this looks like it may be a small claims court jurisdiction.
Your friend then has to prove his case against the original garage and contrary to your advice, He has to prove they are at fault on the balance of probabilities. If the MG specialist has come down in favour of the original garage, the chances of him doing that are about nil though who can say what has happened to the car while it has been at the MG specialist?
The difficulty in cases like this is knowing when to cut your losses and walk away and get shot of it. A solicitor wouldn't touch this with a barge pole IMO as the no win no fee is rather dependent on them recovering their costs off the other side and this looks like it may be a small claims court jurisdiction.
Mikeyplum said:
Not entirely sure.
He pciked it up after the 5th, yes 5th Headgasket replacement and it also had the head skimmed. He drove it for around 4/5 days at about 30 miles a day and it failed in a puff of steam.
The MG Specialists said the it could only have been driven for arounf 4/5 miles with no O ring on it before seizing, thus it must have been him who had removed the O ring.
I have checked, and the MG Specialists are in no way connected to the Garage
the question now is, how long since he bought it from the garage, as i would go for a refund or pxHe pciked it up after the 5th, yes 5th Headgasket replacement and it also had the head skimmed. He drove it for around 4/5 days at about 30 miles a day and it failed in a puff of steam.
The MG Specialists said the it could only have been driven for arounf 4/5 miles with no O ring on it before seizing, thus it must have been him who had removed the O ring.
I have checked, and the MG Specialists are in no way connected to the Garage
LuS1fer said:
The car was entrusted to the MG specialist by your friend and he remains liable to pay, regardless of anything else. The garage is entitled to keep the car in exercise of their lien on the car (the value of the work that remains in the car) and in the event he doesn't pay, they can sell it.
Your friend then has to prove his case against the original garage and contrary to your advice, He has to prove they are at fault on the balance of probabilities. If the MG specialist has come down in favour of the original garage, the chances of him doing that are about nil though who can say what has happened to the car while it has been at the MG specialist?
The difficulty in cases like this is knowing when to cut your losses and walk away and get shot of it. A solicitor wouldn't touch this with a barge pole IMO as the no win no fee is rather dependent on them recovering their costs off the other side and this looks like it may be a small claims court jurisdiction.
Thanks for the reply!Your friend then has to prove his case against the original garage and contrary to your advice, He has to prove they are at fault on the balance of probabilities. If the MG specialist has come down in favour of the original garage, the chances of him doing that are about nil though who can say what has happened to the car while it has been at the MG specialist?
The difficulty in cases like this is knowing when to cut your losses and walk away and get shot of it. A solicitor wouldn't touch this with a barge pole IMO as the no win no fee is rather dependent on them recovering their costs off the other side and this looks like it may be a small claims court jurisdiction.
I appreciate what you're saying, but as the original Garage referred the car to the MG Specialist, wouldn't that make the Garage the MG Specialists customer and therefoe liable to pay for work done? My friend then comes a third party to the dispute of nonpayment. I'm still not sure where he stands on getting his car back/fixed/refund etc.
By simply claiming that my friend had tampered with the engine, has this now given them grounds not to honour the Sales of Goods Act? Thus not repairing car to satisfactory standard or taking car back and prividing full refund etc. Or would my friend have to prove he didn't tamper with it. (i.e guilty untill proven inoccent).
The Spruce goose said:
the question now is, how long since he bought it from the garage, as i would go for a refund or px
It's been about 6 months since he bought it. It went in 3 weeks after purchasing it witht he original fault, and a subsequent 6 times since then. I have told him to go for a full refund, as he is planning on selling it anyway... He bought the car outright so no worries of loans etc...
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