"Fast lane" rear end shunts - do reps ever learn?
Discussion
I commute over the M62 to Leeds daily - been doing this on an off for 7 or 8 years in the last 15.
Sure as eggs are eggs every couple of days there is a queue of cars either on the hard shoulder or all stopped in lane 4 with their front and back ends smashed in near the Saddleworth junction at the top of the hill where lane 4 merges with lane 3. I always try and be over in lane 1 at this point for a grandstand view of some turd in braces crashing.
Are these people all f
king thick, or what? I'll bet that the vast majority of drivers involved in this do this journey every day, it's usually st weather, it's dark - and yet they still steam up there bumper to bumper and some of the manouevres I see being carried out there (just to make up one place in front of the next rep in a base German) beggar belief. They see this happen almost daily just the same as I do - and yet they still persist in driving like tts - to do what? Get to their widget sales meeting 2 seconds earlier.
I'm by no means a "good driver" and I'm as guilty of my fair share of tttiness behind the wheel as anyone, but if there is one place where I reckon having a crash is more likely than any other that I drive then this place is it! Why can't these people draw the same conclusion? If you see someone regularly burn their hand in a fire would you then go and stick yours in it? 
Sure as eggs are eggs every couple of days there is a queue of cars either on the hard shoulder or all stopped in lane 4 with their front and back ends smashed in near the Saddleworth junction at the top of the hill where lane 4 merges with lane 3. I always try and be over in lane 1 at this point for a grandstand view of some turd in braces crashing.
Are these people all f
king thick, or what? I'll bet that the vast majority of drivers involved in this do this journey every day, it's usually st weather, it's dark - and yet they still steam up there bumper to bumper and some of the manouevres I see being carried out there (just to make up one place in front of the next rep in a base German) beggar belief. They see this happen almost daily just the same as I do - and yet they still persist in driving like tts - to do what? Get to their widget sales meeting 2 seconds earlier.I'm by no means a "good driver" and I'm as guilty of my fair share of t
ttiness behind the wheel as anyone, but if there is one place where I reckon having a crash is more likely than any other that I drive then this place is it! Why can't these people draw the same conclusion? If you see someone regularly burn their hand in a fire would you then go and stick yours in it? It's great that place isn't it. You get to the last 200yds and everyone is trying to squeeze past one more car before the 4th lane ends.
Like you I tend to sit in the inside lane at this point, and completely avoid the 3rd and 4th lane shenanigans. Also half the cars I overtook going up the hill tend to come flying back past me on the downhill section.
Like you I tend to sit in the inside lane at this point, and completely avoid the 3rd and 4th lane shenanigans. Also half the cars I overtook going up the hill tend to come flying back past me on the downhill section.
As soon as the average person gets into their car, the feeling of invulnerability takes over. As a result, accidents happen to "everyone else" and they are such good drivers that they will avoid everything else. Add to that the fact that they do the same journey day in and day out, and nothing happened before, their acceptance of risk is very low.
To answer your questions - do they ever learn? Nope, we are pre-programmed to not learn and we effectively dont consider the risks. Take an expert driver and to the same roads and compare the two and it would be rather surprising!
I dont commute thankfully, but sometimes I find myself travelling at peak times. The driving standards of the average driver is shocking. I joke is because they need to dash home for the One show on BBC! But in reality, I suspect, if these people were shown the standard of their driving they would be surprised too.
To answer your questions - do they ever learn? Nope, we are pre-programmed to not learn and we effectively dont consider the risks. Take an expert driver and to the same roads and compare the two and it would be rather surprising!
I dont commute thankfully, but sometimes I find myself travelling at peak times. The driving standards of the average driver is shocking. I joke is because they need to dash home for the One show on BBC! But in reality, I suspect, if these people were shown the standard of their driving they would be surprised too.
I reckon this is the cause of the traffic dead spots you get sometimes. Bunch of 'considerably faster than thou' types too close, one brakes, the others all brake hard. Then it takes a few secs to get back up to speed. Before long you end up with everybody queueing for no reason.
The a127 is particularly bad for it.
The a127 is particularly bad for it.
You are making the assumption that anyone is actually thinking about their driving!
Driving is just the thing that people now do between doing other things, like making a cup of tea, or reading a newspaper. They simply have no comprehension of even the principles of "stopping distance" or "reaction time" because they have no comprehension of anything at all! Driving should be a task in itself, one to which you apply enough skills and attention to ensure you do that task in a safe, efficient and sensible manner.
Modern cars are so easy to drive, so quiet and comfortable that anyone, with very little actual driving skills or thaught, can get in a car, accelerate to 70+mph and simply just follow the car ahead like a sheep until either 1) they get to their destination or 2) they plow into the back of the car ahead before getting to their destination.......
Unfortunately, car manufacturers are now squeezing in more and more electronic feature content, so that distractions outweigh the attractions in a modern car by at least 50%!
Driving is just the thing that people now do between doing other things, like making a cup of tea, or reading a newspaper. They simply have no comprehension of even the principles of "stopping distance" or "reaction time" because they have no comprehension of anything at all! Driving should be a task in itself, one to which you apply enough skills and attention to ensure you do that task in a safe, efficient and sensible manner.
Modern cars are so easy to drive, so quiet and comfortable that anyone, with very little actual driving skills or thaught, can get in a car, accelerate to 70+mph and simply just follow the car ahead like a sheep until either 1) they get to their destination or 2) they plow into the back of the car ahead before getting to their destination.......
Unfortunately, car manufacturers are now squeezing in more and more electronic feature content, so that distractions outweigh the attractions in a modern car by at least 50%!
I'd suggest it has a lot to do with modern cars. Even our Megane, which weighs in at 100 tons and has a couple of beer coaster for brake disks offers so much confidence in braking, it seems to slow with so much confidence until you really need to slam the brakes on, then it's quite suprising how poor an emergency stop is.
budgie smuggler said:
I reckon this is the cause of the traffic dead spots you get sometimes. Bunch of 'considerably faster than thou' types too close, one brakes, the others all brake hard. Then it takes a few secs to get back up to speed. Before long you end up with everybody queueing for no reason.
The a127 is particularly bad for it.
This is absolutely correct. The a127 is particularly bad for it.
If you're local to the A127, then can I assume you know the A12, northbound, heading away from Brentwood?
There used to be a Lane 1 gain (slip road from junction) then, about 3 miles later, a Lane 3 drop. The L3 drop used to cause problems every single day - queues, accidents, barrier wipeouts, you name it, it happened.
We took out the third lane, all the way from the junction to the lane drop, and got nothing but grief from MOPs (Morons of the Public) saying how removing a lane would cause more congestion. However, 2 lanes will always flow safer and easier than 2>3>2.
Here, if you're interested. http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=51.6730...
I drive on a quick-ish dual carriageway every day, and I will regularly see bad driving most commonly around a lack of braking distance.
It's no surprise that this then manifests itself with regular rear-end shunts. Its just a shame that the Police have zero visibility unless there is actually an accident and even if you do see a copper I've never heard of anyone being pulled for tailgating.
Unfortunately if you ask one of those reps what was the cause of the issue you'd probably hear them say something like "chap in front braked too hard" or some such rubbish, and a lack of acceptance that their own driving style was to blame.
It's no surprise that this then manifests itself with regular rear-end shunts. Its just a shame that the Police have zero visibility unless there is actually an accident and even if you do see a copper I've never heard of anyone being pulled for tailgating.
Unfortunately if you ask one of those reps what was the cause of the issue you'd probably hear them say something like "chap in front braked too hard" or some such rubbish, and a lack of acceptance that their own driving style was to blame.
CampDavid said:
I'd suggest it has a lot to do with modern cars. Even our Megane, which weighs in at 100 tons and has a couple of beer coaster for brake disks offers so much confidence in braking, it seems to slow with so much confidence until you really need to slam the brakes on, then it's quite suprising how poor an emergency stop is.
Same thing with the Lancer I had. 1550+kg of diesel saloon with 170hp that really flew along. Brakes? 278mm front and 262mm rear. Load it up with 4 or 5 people plus luggage, and suddenly the over-servoed brakes just wouldn't make the car stop. Brake fade after the second roundabout. Even the EBA couldn't make the thing stop.The Vectra wasn't much better with it's 282mm fronts, but it was a lighter, slower car, and the brakes didn't seem to heat up as badly as the Lancer's.
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