ECU's, Traction Control, etc - when did the rot set in?
Discussion
Guys,
When did the electronic gizmos/ecus/etc make their collective way into the production car world?
Late 1990's / early 2000's?
I read somewhere that from next year MOT centres have to 'plug in' to all modern cars so-equipped and fault read. If there are any faults it is an advisory up till April and thereafter it's a fail. I may have the wrong end of the stick here (first time for everything!
)
If that's the case I'm rather glad I've sold all my modern stuff and have nothing but old skool left now. Hell, the newest car I own is my 1998 110!
Cheers,
C.
Edited - spelling - d'oh!
When did the electronic gizmos/ecus/etc make their collective way into the production car world?
Late 1990's / early 2000's?
I read somewhere that from next year MOT centres have to 'plug in' to all modern cars so-equipped and fault read. If there are any faults it is an advisory up till April and thereafter it's a fail. I may have the wrong end of the stick here (first time for everything!
)If that's the case I'm rather glad I've sold all my modern stuff and have nothing but old skool left now. Hell, the newest car I own is my 1998 110!
Cheers,
C.
Edited - spelling - d'oh!
Cant see those mot rules happening , many cars will record a fault code on the ecu due to no actual fault being there for example if I switched off my Mercedes and quickly switched the ignition back on it would record a fault.
So not all fault codes recorded are faults and many of them have no impact in the running or safety of the car
So not all fault codes recorded are faults and many of them have no impact in the running or safety of the car
liner33 said:
Cant see those mot rules happening , many cars will record a fault code on the ecu due to no actual fault being there for example if I switched off my Mercedes and quickly switched the ignition back on it would record a fault.
So not all fault codes recorded are faults and many of them have no impact in the running or safety of the car
I hope not, I really do. IIRC, the info was in Autocar mag and the new measures are EU driven (pardon the pun). So not all fault codes recorded are faults and many of them have no impact in the running or safety of the car
BMW E36s had TC as an option, although I'm not sure when it came in. The E36 itself ran from '91 to '99 I think? The E46 (2000 to 2005? The crossover model plugged the gap) then introduced DSC, which was extremely effective, but where it fell down was the lethargic ECU that it communicated with - any moderate slip angle forays would immediately result in a killed throttle, but the throttle cut would be a fraction of a second too late (which admitedly allowed for some brief tail out fun, and then wouldn't allow you any throttle again for a good second or so. I once got stranded in the middle of a dual carriageway when crossing over by this system because a bit of gravel on the side road caused my left rear to slip ever so slightly, and then PIO occured as I tried to drive to safety. I switched it off as a matter of course from then on.
Personally, the only driver aid I'd like on the road would be ABS. I can threshold brake on track (although it's definitely my weakpoint as a racer, I confess), but on a dark wet night if I need to stop quickly, and especially in a split-mu situation, I'll take ABS thanks, it's a life-saver imho (or at least a crumpled bonnet or deer saver!). Basic car control? As far as I'm concerned that's instinctive and I've never wanted for TC or DSC on any car. Car manufacturers would be far better off concentrating on improving throttle response and steering feel so we can actually drive. I'm quite happy in my Elise on the limit in the wet, or a Caterham, Exige etc etc, but I wouldn't want to drive a modern car like a 330i or 335i with DSC turned off in the wet, it'd be a rather hairy experience due to the lack of driver control.
Personally, the only driver aid I'd like on the road would be ABS. I can threshold brake on track (although it's definitely my weakpoint as a racer, I confess), but on a dark wet night if I need to stop quickly, and especially in a split-mu situation, I'll take ABS thanks, it's a life-saver imho (or at least a crumpled bonnet or deer saver!). Basic car control? As far as I'm concerned that's instinctive and I've never wanted for TC or DSC on any car. Car manufacturers would be far better off concentrating on improving throttle response and steering feel so we can actually drive. I'm quite happy in my Elise on the limit in the wet, or a Caterham, Exige etc etc, but I wouldn't want to drive a modern car like a 330i or 335i with DSC turned off in the wet, it'd be a rather hairy experience due to the lack of driver control.
Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 2nd November 17:18
The MOT fail will not be on all fault DTC's, just the "Type 1" er, type. i.e. those that illuminate a MIL. Type 1 DTC's are those serious enough to result in a possible tailpipe emissions increase.
I'm not sure about the forthcoming EU MOT test, but in the US you can't just clear your DTC's before the test because they also check that all the monitors have run (Catalyst, Misfire, EVAP, FuelMon etc) and if they are still "pending" (which they will be if you have just reset the system and not driven it enough, then that is enough to "reject" the test!
I'm not sure about the forthcoming EU MOT test, but in the US you can't just clear your DTC's before the test because they also check that all the monitors have run (Catalyst, Misfire, EVAP, FuelMon etc) and if they are still "pending" (which they will be if you have just reset the system and not driven it enough, then that is enough to "reject" the test!
Mercedes, no susprise were the first in on the act (wouldn't consider it 'rot') with ECU controlled ABS in about 1978 on the S-Class and Air Bags in 1981. They were the first too with TC (ASR) sometime around the mid to late 80's. So, I suppose you can blame those clever guys at M-B & Bosch.
Caractacus said:
Guys,
I read somewhere that from next year MOT centres have to 'plug in' to all modern cars so-equipped and fault read. If there are any faults it is an advisory up till April and thereafter it's a fail. I may have the wrong end of the stick here (first time for everything! )
Maybe just the middle of the stick, there'll be no plugging into the ECUs for a few years yet. From January it'll be checking certain dashboard warnings such as ABS (as we do now) SRS, tyre pressure monitors and traction control etc. along with a lot of other new stuff. These can be an advisory until April after that a definite fail.I read somewhere that from next year MOT centres have to 'plug in' to all modern cars so-equipped and fault read. If there are any faults it is an advisory up till April and thereafter it's a fail. I may have the wrong end of the stick here (first time for everything!
)Edited by jagracer on Wednesday 2nd November 17:30
Nowt wrong with ECUs.
I never understand the objection to a nice simple, precise computer control of fuel and spark. You tell it how much fuel you want down to the last fraction of a milligram and it delivers it at the time you tell it too. It's far more elegant than all that voodoo that goes into setting up carbs with float chambers, needles, jets and God knows what else.
I can't say I object to ABS either. I'm used to driving cars without it, but I have no doubt I'd stop quicker in an emergency with the computer helping me out.
So, all-in-all I'm not convinced it is rot. The numpties (and frankly most keen/experienced drivers too) are usually safer with it there and those who want to can switch it off. Or buy a TVR.
I never understand the objection to a nice simple, precise computer control of fuel and spark. You tell it how much fuel you want down to the last fraction of a milligram and it delivers it at the time you tell it too. It's far more elegant than all that voodoo that goes into setting up carbs with float chambers, needles, jets and God knows what else.
I can't say I object to ABS either. I'm used to driving cars without it, but I have no doubt I'd stop quicker in an emergency with the computer helping me out.
So, all-in-all I'm not convinced it is rot. The numpties (and frankly most keen/experienced drivers too) are usually safer with it there and those who want to can switch it off. Or buy a TVR.
Chris71 said:
I can't say I object to ABS either. I'm used to driving cars without it, but I have no doubt I'd stop quicker in an emergency with the computer helping me out.
Braking on the limit is by far the hardest thing to do well in a car, and in my opinion it's the very last thing to become instinctive. I've raced for ten years and threshold braking still isn't instinctive, and I'm not sure it ever will be. Put me down for ABS every time. Guys, the reason I consider ecu's, etc as 'rot' is 1/ due to the ability said devices have given (or are going to give) to Big EU Brother and 2/ too many folk rely upon a button to make everything peachy (electronic nannies, etc).
A perfect example of the latter is last winter when I was parked off the side of a steep ice-covered lane to let someone uphill (only 1.5 lanes wide). A Mitsi Shogun came over the hill and down behind me too fast, hit the brakes, locked up and took out the entire RHS of my car. What did the driver say upon getting out? Firstly, "I am soooo sorry" followed by "I even had it in 'snow control'!" OFFS!!!
I fully appreciate an ecu's abilty to improve fuel/air delivery, etc, but that's one of the only positives for me. I will use an ecu in my next fun car (After all I aim for big bhp), but seeing as it is a kit/custom car it will not have all the associated bollix that modern production cars have tht go hand in hand with the clever electronic box of tricks.
Cheers,
C.
A perfect example of the latter is last winter when I was parked off the side of a steep ice-covered lane to let someone uphill (only 1.5 lanes wide). A Mitsi Shogun came over the hill and down behind me too fast, hit the brakes, locked up and took out the entire RHS of my car. What did the driver say upon getting out? Firstly, "I am soooo sorry" followed by "I even had it in 'snow control'!" OFFS!!!
I fully appreciate an ecu's abilty to improve fuel/air delivery, etc, but that's one of the only positives for me. I will use an ecu in my next fun car (After all I aim for big bhp), but seeing as it is a kit/custom car it will not have all the associated bollix that modern production cars have tht go hand in hand with the clever electronic box of tricks.
Cheers,
C.
t load of rot 
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