Cancelation problems with a Motor insurance agency.
Discussion
I previously did a search on insurance problems on the P.H. site to see if i could find something similar to the problem i am having with an on-line insurance agency.
There is something related as in the hiking up of the renewal premium-by lots,but i'd better ask for help and give a warning of what i call a scam..
I believe PH rules state firms shouldn't be named so if you want to know the firm in question please pm.
Anyhow here is how it goes!
Like a lot of people i am in dire financial trouble and found myself unable to keep my van insurance direct debit installments going.
Last July i cancelled my D/Dwith the insurance firm and later emailed them of the situation and asked how i stood as i could no longer afford to pay anymore money..
They ,as in their words confirmed that the policy is complete as the 10 installments had been paid,and the policy would continue till Sept 24th which is the date of expiry.
Whoopee i thought ..Sometime later they sent me a renewal notice..Which i didn't really want!!..The premium had risen from £300 to £514 odd.
I emailed back saying this is ridiculous especially as in the previous email i had said i did not have funding to insure my van.
They replied that i should contact the sales dept for details and ensured that this was the best possible offer for me.
Well this is good customer services i think not ..If they want my business then they can contact me,so i left it at that.
Thinking no more of it i found one morning my bank account had been cleared of funds leaving me with no money to buy even food.
Having a pay as you go mobile phoning the bank was out of the question,so i jumped on the push bike and cycled 2 miles to the nearest Santander branch to use their phone link to my business account centre.
They recovered the money that this insurance companty took out of my account,but the overdrawn fee incured was not recoverable.
At least now my account was in balance and i could buy food though.
Despite cancelling my direct debit the insurance firm still had my bank details and drew out the renewal monthly fee.The bank they said are powerless to stop this .I asked them to block the payment detals which they did.
Fuming i emailed the ins.firm and demanded compensation for my losses.
They reminded me that my policy wasn't cancelled even if you cancelled the direct debit.It says so on my terms and conditions. The policy was in force and i was due to pay..BTW they took the money out of the usual anniversary date of direct debit!!
They said i did not officially cancel the policy in writing..I said it seems obvious to me when i said i have no money to pay for any insurance as informed.
I wrote to them stating to comfirm my policy has been cancelled as from the expiry date.
Previous to that i sent a email with the SORN notice proving my vehicle is laid up!!
I in return received in the post demands for the amount of the instalment owned otherwise the policy willbe cancelled and i will incurr charges..Actually i received these two seperate letters sent in the post at the same time in duplicate(?)!!
Emailed them back now getting rather angry but still not abusive!!
I'm now told i owe them £198.19 in cancellation and time of my insurance covered(?)!!
This was confirmed by post today..
It consists of the following...Charge for the insurance period used £40.85
Add on products (??) 79.00
Cancellation fee 50.00
Set up fee 20.00
Total £198.19
How far is your jaw dropping more than mine!!
First thoughts are to write the complaint to the relevant finacial services ombudsman.
Secondly send a copy of the complaint to the insurance underwriter as i'm sure they know nothing about this.
Is there anyone else out there had this experience. I've been taking out insurance for 40 + years and never been treated like this before.
Warning is never to get involved with this firm + block any payment account when you are disatisfied with any company.
Sounds like your bank is at fault.
if you cancel any direct debit with your bank then your bank cannot authorise any payment when submitted by the company. Your bank shouldn't have allowed the firm to take funds from your bank once this was cancelled. you should be asking this question of your bank directly.
N.
if you cancel any direct debit with your bank then your bank cannot authorise any payment when submitted by the company. Your bank shouldn't have allowed the firm to take funds from your bank once this was cancelled. you should be asking this question of your bank directly.
N.
I suspect this is just the sort of thing Citizens Advice is going to be quite useful for.
Having been in similar circumstances many years ago, I really do sympathise.
The worse your financial situation, the more people manage to charge you for their mistakes, and the less resource you have to fight them.
I wish you the very best of luck.
Having been in similar circumstances many years ago, I really do sympathise.
The worse your financial situation, the more people manage to charge you for their mistakes, and the less resource you have to fight them.
I wish you the very best of luck.
heightswitch said:
Sounds like your bank is at fault.
if you cancel any direct debit with your bank then your bank cannot authorise any payment when submitted by the company. Your bank shouldn't have allowed the firm to take funds from your bank once this was cancelled. you should be asking this question of your bank directly.
N.
Thats what i thought but they said as long as the other party have my bank details then they can withdraw..Unless you write to the company involved apparently.if you cancel any direct debit with your bank then your bank cannot authorise any payment when submitted by the company. Your bank shouldn't have allowed the firm to take funds from your bank once this was cancelled. you should be asking this question of your bank directly.
N.
Doesn't seem right to me as at anytime anyone in the past could take all your've got in the world..Its frightning..When i've finished a D/d in future i will get the bank to block any application
Goaty Bill said:
I suspect this is just the sort of thing Citizens Advice is going to be quite useful for.
Having been in similar circumstances many years ago, I really do sympathise.
The worse your financial situation, the more people manage to charge you for their mistakes, and the less resource you have to fight them.
I wish you the very best of luck.
Thanks Goaty ..Thats just to moral support i need .Fell better already.Having been in similar circumstances many years ago, I really do sympathise.
The worse your financial situation, the more people manage to charge you for their mistakes, and the less resource you have to fight them.
I wish you the very best of luck.
CAB will probably just tell me to see a solicitor,and the Financial Ombudsman will say it is out of their jurisdiction or something..All what the i've heard before in something similar.
limjamrace said:
Thats what i thought but they said as long as the other party have my bank details then they can withdraw..Unless you write to the company involved apparently.
Doesn't seem right to me as at anytime anyone in the past could take all your've got in the world..Its frightning..When i've finished a D/d in future i will get the bank to block any application
No.Doesn't seem right to me as at anytime anyone in the past could take all your've got in the world..Its frightning..When i've finished a D/d in future i will get the bank to block any application
"your" bank has a responsibility for your money. if you instruct the bank to cancel a DD then if it fails to do this It is at fault and liable for any consequence. it is irrellavant who holds details. A DD works by arrangement. The company still applies for payment to your bank. If a DD has been stopped then the company does not get payment and then will write to you as its customer. if your bank has cancelled a DD by your instruction then paid an external requestor it is in the wrong and you have full legal redress!
Did you cancel your direct debit ? Many insurance companies automatically renew by exception. if you failed to cancel your DD, the you have by default entered into another contract by failure to cancel.
N.
I would suggest you carefully re-read the small print of your insurance policy because you may find that you have, inadvertantly, given prior authorisation to deduct your account under a 'auto renewal' clause. In this case the bank has done nothing wrong.
I have come across several insurance that operate this policy, usually internet based, and unless you write to them within a set term of notice they will renew the policy.
As you discovered when you cancelled the D/D the policy was paid in full so the policy continued until its expiry date.
If you have been caught out by an 'auto policy' clause you are now trying to cancel a new valid policy and the insurance company are applying their early cancellation fees, again these fees will be stated in the policy.
You really need to write to the insurance companies customer services department,recorded delivery,stating your case....keep cool and if they will not budge take the case to the Insurance Ombudsman,whos contact details will also be on the policy document. The insurance company have to prove they acted fairly with your complaint so if you
it may go against you.
Bodders
I have come across several insurance that operate this policy, usually internet based, and unless you write to them within a set term of notice they will renew the policy.
As you discovered when you cancelled the D/D the policy was paid in full so the policy continued until its expiry date.
If you have been caught out by an 'auto policy' clause you are now trying to cancel a new valid policy and the insurance company are applying their early cancellation fees, again these fees will be stated in the policy.
You really need to write to the insurance companies customer services department,recorded delivery,stating your case....keep cool and if they will not budge take the case to the Insurance Ombudsman,whos contact details will also be on the policy document. The insurance company have to prove they acted fairly with your complaint so if you
it may go against you.Bodders
Yes thank you all for your replies. You are all right in one way or another.
My case is that i emailed them after i cancelled the direct debit stating i have no more money.
They say i did not respond to the renewal notice,apart from saying it is a ridiculous amount.
All in all i have been shafted by a underhand insurance agency,and as such am taking it up with the Ombudsman. I may only be making waves but i'm giving the shysters grief what they deserve.
I have no money and cannot pay for any type of insurance so the blocking of NCD is no such hardship at present.
It is i hope going to court as i cannot pay the £198 ...I will have to let the judge decide how much i can pay out of my Job seekers Allowance!
As things stand it maybe a good idea to sell my beloved Tranny TDi Connect and go back to a historic car where NCD doesn't apply in the end.
The statement about the bank is seemingly correct,but in the past they have been fair with my financial sitution and the business charges are cheap to my last outfit by miles..Only this time they have charged me x 2 o/d amounts ...so its off to the branch tomorrow on the pushbike to use their phone and sort that out.
At the end of the day i would have thought the days of being shafted by motor vehicle insurance had gone..When i was 17 my first policy nearly ended in ruin as the company took my money and then packed up..Luckily being a inexperienced new bank account holder resulted in me forgetting to sign the cheque..So you see it hasn't all been bad luck.lol.
Please keep the comments coming and i will update as time goes on..I'm always one for righting wrongs as in my opinion this is all underhand dealing..My advice is never get in the poverty trap and when you get a large increase in premium..Send a recored delivery notice of cancell ment and go elsewhere..This is all a scam!!
I am the laziest sod in the world when it comes to this kind of thing.
Always late etc etc.
In 13 years, my insurance broker has never cost me a penny unfairly, even when it has been (at least partially) my fault.
They go out of their way to keep in contact with me, and to ensure I get the best price within my criteria, including haranguing my current provider for a better policy to the tune of £500 'saved'.
(an attempt to increase my cost by nearly £600+ resulted in actually saving £75 over the previous year, without changing insurers or policy coverage)
You seem to have got very unlucky.
There must be some other good ones out there, certainly your experience seems like a particularly bad one by today's standard.
If you want me to PM a solid recommendation for future reference, just say so.
Always late etc etc.
In 13 years, my insurance broker has never cost me a penny unfairly, even when it has been (at least partially) my fault.
They go out of their way to keep in contact with me, and to ensure I get the best price within my criteria, including haranguing my current provider for a better policy to the tune of £500 'saved'.
(an attempt to increase my cost by nearly £600+ resulted in actually saving £75 over the previous year, without changing insurers or policy coverage)
You seem to have got very unlucky.
There must be some other good ones out there, certainly your experience seems like a particularly bad one by today's standard.
If you want me to PM a solid recommendation for future reference, just say so.
I used to be with the Coop for nearly 40 years and things were fine until they got rid of the blokes who came round your house every year to renew.
My long standing friend and agent packed it in when they went USA style sell sell sell.It wasn't enjoyable anymore he said.
Soon after that main office cocked things up big time with my policy and i went elsewhere.
Since then the industry has gone downhill in my experience and so yes Goaty i would be pleased for any future reference of insurance.
At presentI would rather spend all my time now in making an income and beyond(getting back into Motorsport)than trying to keep what little money i have from these shysters!
The answer is above ie you failed to cancel your policy and so they collected premium. Write and ask nicely that they wave it etc... Insist that your bank fixes their cock up re the DD. any other action is IMHO a waste of time. I have worked for banks an ins co's since 1985 and have found them reasonable especially when they are the big guys.
Goaty Bill said:
I am the laziest sod in the world when it comes to this kind of thing.
Always late etc etc.
In 13 years, my insurance broker has never cost me a penny unfairly, even when it has been (at least partially) my fault.
They go out of their way to keep in contact with me, and to ensure I get the best price within my criteria, including haranguing my current provider for a better policy to the tune of £500 'saved'.
(an attempt to increase my cost by nearly £600+ resulted in actually saving £75 over the previous year, without changing insurers or policy coverage)
You seem to have got very unlucky.
Thanks Goaty ..Most of your emailwas blocked by filter but i got the contact ok!
There must be some other good ones out there, certainly your experience seems like a particularly bad one by today's standard.
If you want me to PM a solid recommendation for future reference, just say so.
Always late etc etc.
In 13 years, my insurance broker has never cost me a penny unfairly, even when it has been (at least partially) my fault.
They go out of their way to keep in contact with me, and to ensure I get the best price within my criteria, including haranguing my current provider for a better policy to the tune of £500 'saved'.
(an attempt to increase my cost by nearly £600+ resulted in actually saving £75 over the previous year, without changing insurers or policy coverage)
You seem to have got very unlucky.
Thanks Goaty ..Most of your emailwas blocked by filter but i got the contact ok!
There must be some other good ones out there, certainly your experience seems like a particularly bad one by today's standard.
If you want me to PM a solid recommendation for future reference, just say so.
The same thing happened to me with DD for a mobile phone. I wrote to the phone company and canceled the DD on the internet banking. Sure enough the Phone compay took out the money and I too was overdrawn. I spoke to the bank and they said I must reclaim the money back from the phone company. After a bit of heated arguments and me saying if I wasn't refunded strait away the full amount and charges I would be cancelling all my accounts. The next day all was sorted :-)
Dont start me on insurance!!! Robbing B’s
Rings around to find an insurance company to insure a chipped TD6 Range Rover. Told its a problem, expensive to insure and very few people want to touch it, it would be cheaper to insure a TDV8 Im told.
Eventually find (one of the big names) to insure it - Fully comp £609. 1 month later the car gets sold - and Im lucky enough to be able to get myself into a TDV8 Range Rover - ring to update my insurance... and they now want £1641.00 (Rings around and its coming in at about £700-£900 with everyone else - which is what I would expect)
Rings them back and says that even one of the companies thats on their list of approved insurance companies that they deal with (and get quotes via) has quoted me £900.
Im then told its £1600.00 and thats it - end of. £700 mark up not bad!
So I decide to cancel the policy - the refund will be £377.31
So 20 days insurance cost me £231.99!!
But Im told if I stay with them I will get £513.16 towards the £1641.00 - an extra £281.17 all of a sudden!!!!!
I ended up going elsewhere (with a big company - same terms) and paid - £790.00
Barrel and shaft come to mind!
Rings around to find an insurance company to insure a chipped TD6 Range Rover. Told its a problem, expensive to insure and very few people want to touch it, it would be cheaper to insure a TDV8 Im told.
Eventually find (one of the big names) to insure it - Fully comp £609. 1 month later the car gets sold - and Im lucky enough to be able to get myself into a TDV8 Range Rover - ring to update my insurance... and they now want £1641.00 (Rings around and its coming in at about £700-£900 with everyone else - which is what I would expect)
Rings them back and says that even one of the companies thats on their list of approved insurance companies that they deal with (and get quotes via) has quoted me £900.
Im then told its £1600.00 and thats it - end of. £700 mark up not bad!
So I decide to cancel the policy - the refund will be £377.31
So 20 days insurance cost me £231.99!!
But Im told if I stay with them I will get £513.16 towards the £1641.00 - an extra £281.17 all of a sudden!!!!!
I ended up going elsewhere (with a big company - same terms) and paid - £790.00
Barrel and shaft come to mind!
This is i'm sorry to find out the way of "modern business",and they have the cheek to all have a "customer service" contact!!
The Marina where i liveaboard Managing Dictator has a phrase.."We are her as a money making concern not to provide a service..
Which means we are all here to give him thousands of pounds in mooring fees and not complain when we don't get what we paid for..
We are all hear to suit him and his dream of a swanky restuarant overlooking lots of pretty canal boats in a basin.
Its all related. The insurance scheme here is that they know i cannot afford their demands so the have hiked up the premium with the opportunity that i will just ignore them which has happened then slam me with this scam to hike up their targets.
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