RE: Auction Report: Encouraging Signs In The Used Market?
RE: Auction Report: Encouraging Signs In The Used Market?
Monday 7th November 2011

Auctions: Encouraging Signs In The Used Market?

Values are firming up - but sellers want top prices and trade buyers only want the cleanest cars


997 was one of only two cars sold...
997 was one of only two cars sold...
Recent reports from CAP indicate that used prices have firmed-up in the past couple of months, so we went down to the Manheim auction at Bruntingthorpe, where there were a number of prestige and performance vehicles going under the hammer.

Despite some tempting cars getting close to their CAP Clean values (and some that didn't) and plenty of bidding action, a number of cars failed to sell. In fact, only two of the prestige cars up for grabs were sold on the day - and both were the only two that attracted bids higher than the CAP Clean figure. Coincidence?

Speaking to some of the trade buyers there gave an indication as to why the market is firming-up: in a nutshell, they'd rather pay strong money for a very good example rather than less for one that needs some attention. That, and the fact that the companies who bring the cars to auction are aware of a shortage of quality stock and so won't let it go for buttons.

...with this 996 cab the other
...with this 996 cab the other
To illustrate this there was an 8000-mile 2008 M3 Convertible, which looked good in metallic grey with a red interior. It needed a wheel refurb, a little paintwork on the bonnet to sort out a couple of chips, and a small 'trolley' ding taking out of the boot lid - otherwise it was in fine fettle. With a CAP Clean value of £31,800, the bidding stopped at £29,300 (£30,147 including buyer's premium and VAT), but it didn't sell despite the fact that convertibles, unlike 4x4s, have seen their CAP values drop significantly.

Something that did sell was a 70,000 mile 2004 Porsche 996 Turbo Cabriolet which, save for a professional cut-and-polish, was in borderline-mint condition. With a CAP Clean value of £25,250 it was surprising to note the lack of raised eyebrows in the hall when it went for £26,400 (£27,160 in total.) The other car sold on the day was also a Porker - a 2006 997 S Tiptronic in very good shape despite a recorded mileage of 86,594. It sold for £26,000 (£26,750 all-in) against CAP Clean of £26,150.

Whereas this lightly tatty M3 didn't go
Whereas this lightly tatty M3 didn't go
One trade buyer told me; "I'm not surprised. Recently we've been paying over book price for a mint car - especially if it's one we have a buyer waiting for. Good quality stock is in short supply and the finance companies are expecting a shortage of good cars, so they're holding-out for CAP Clean bids and upwards as the market firms-up."

It looks like the finance companies are adopting a forward-looking strategy, aware that lease terms have generally been extended and that there's been less de-fleeting of late than in the past - leading to fewer good cars being available.

The thing is that there were still a lot of clean prestige cars there which still didn't get anywhere near CAP Average - never mind CAP Clean. So with vendors holding out for strong money and buyers only prepared to pay such money for select cars, will the finance companies and such like find themselves with a lot of stock to shift in the near future?


We'll keep a close eye on the market to see how things develop; meanwhile here is a selection of other lots which didn't sell and their final bids.

*All prices include buyer's premium and VAT.

07 Porsche Cayenne S, 23,168 miles, minor chips/dents, £24,709 (CAP Clean £25,850)
04 Porsche Cayenne Turbo, 122,727 miles, minor chips/scratches, £9,453 (£10,050)
05 Porsche 911 S, 83,292 miles, noisy engine/minor chips, £21,634 (£22,500)
08 Audi A5 Quattro, 30,750 miles, very clean, £20,194 (£22,500)
02 Bentley Arnage T, 60,042 miles, very clean, £23,684 (£27,050)
10 Jaguar XJ V8 Portfolio, 13,445 miles, very clean, £38,729 (£40,200)
09 Jaguar XJ V8 Portfolio, 8,113 miles, clean, £36,503 (£41,800)



Author
Discussion

TinyCappo

Original Poster:

2,106 posts

173 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
It will have been that number plate on the M3 that stopped it selling.

Hellbound

2,515 posts

196 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
...but sellers want top prices and trade buyers only want the cleanest cars

You forgot the 'News Flash' bit in the headline.

thewheelman

2,194 posts

193 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
I can never understand the people that p/ex their cars when you'd make a lot more selling private. I can't complain, as i enjoy making money from their cars. Premium used car sales have not seen a decline in quite some time & good profits are there to be made smile

adz13091982

185 posts

188 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
thewheelman said:
I can never understand the people that p/ex their cars when you'd make a lot more selling private. I can't complain, as i enjoy making money from their cars. Premium used car sales have not seen a decline in quite some time & good profits are there to be made smile
Too many messers and you don't get that much interest if you're selling a car north of £10,000. Also people like the convienicane of trading in therfore if you're selling privatly you can't offer the convienience of being able to part ex their old car and also people percieve buying a car from a dealer is less risky.



RenesisEvo

3,815 posts

239 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
thewheelman said:
I can never understand the people that p/ex their cars when you'd make a lot more selling private.
When you only have one car, it's tricky to sell it before you've bought the other one. Or you have to find the funds for the new car without selling the old one - which limits your budget more if you want to trade across/up. Hence p/ex can be convenient, avoiding the need to run either two cars at once (insurance costs), or none at all. I'm debating whether to sell mine privately, but for all the hassle involved, if the right car is at a dealer I'm happy to lose a few hundred for the time and effort saved.


twoblacklines

1,575 posts

181 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
Selling a car privatly from your home is a fking pain in the bum!!!!!

So many messers who just want to test drive it and arent even interested, to those with more criminal ideas, mostly I will buy from a trader just so I can trade a car in, yes you spend more £££ but time is money in my profession and trying to sell a car independently takes too much time!

Infact when ive wanted to get shot quickly I have even taken big losses through auction but its the quickest way to sell a car biggrin

thewheelman

2,194 posts

193 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
RenesisEvo said:
thewheelman said:
I can never understand the people that p/ex their cars when you'd make a lot more selling private.
When you only have one car, it's tricky to sell it before you've bought the other one. Or you have to find the funds for the new car without selling the old one - which limits your budget more if you want to trade across/up. Hence p/ex can be convenient, avoiding the need to run either two cars at once (insurance costs), or none at all. I'm debating whether to sell mine privately, but for all the hassle involved, if the right car is at a dealer I'm happy to lose a few hundred for the time and effort saved.
If it was a few hundred then fine, but some people are losing a couple of thousand, & i'm talking that amount on run of the mill cars.

Edited by thewheelman on Monday 7th November 13:34

nelly_h

138 posts

199 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
adz13091982 said:
thewheelman said:
I can never understand the people that p/ex their cars when you'd make a lot more selling private. I can't complain, as i enjoy making money from their cars. Premium used car sales have not seen a decline in quite some time & good profits are there to be made smile
Too many messers and you don't get that much interest if you're selling a car north of £10,000. Also people like the convienicane of trading in therfore if you're selling privatly you can't offer the convienience of being able to part ex their old car and also people percieve buying a car from a dealer is less risky.
This. I've had issues selling privately over £15k as the buyer gets no warranty, and I can understand it as I feel uncomfortable buying without warranty too.

I'm sure many people here know how to inspect a car, and would be happy to put some things right themselves if they had a problem. I'm not one, as a barely kow how to hold a spanner. For that reason I buy through trade, and sell through trade too.

I know I miss out on deals, but I'm happy spending more if it provides me with peace of mind.

Nigel_O

3,507 posts

239 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
seven year old Cayenne Turbo for £10k? - now that is serious depreciation....

Cassius81

285 posts

209 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
TinyCappo said:
It will have been that number plate on the M3 that stopped it selling.
Yep, couldn't agree more. Someone more concerned with their image than looking after their car. Ok, it was only minor bodywork stuff, but still paints a picture.

Stew2000

2,776 posts

198 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
A 911 with a noisy engine? never heard of such a thing! rofl

Morningside

24,143 posts

249 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
I used to enjoy V8mate's(?) posting about Colchester auction.

silversixx

140 posts

231 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
Stew2000 said:
A 911 with a noisy engine? never heard of such a thing! rofl
This one sounded really dreadful too - like a knackered cam follower :/

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

266 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
Dealers generally sell the best traded-in stuff off their own forecourts. It's only the old and the less desirable cars which gets marched out to auction - hence, in part, the lower prices. No point giving away margin if they can have it for themselves.

Balmoral Green

42,554 posts

268 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
'02 Bentley Arnage T, 60,042 miles, very clean, £23,684'

'kin 'ell

CASHisKING

12,241 posts

226 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
Cassius81 said:
TinyCappo said:
It will have been that number plate on the M3 that stopped it selling.
Yep, couldn't agree more. Someone more concerned with their image than looking after their car. Ok, it was only minor bodywork stuff, but still paints a picture.
rolleyes

sc4589

1,960 posts

185 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
thewheelman said:
I can never understand the people that p/ex their cars when you'd make a lot more selling private. I can't complain, as i enjoy making money from their cars. Premium used car sales have not seen a decline in quite some time & good profits are there to be made smile
Wrong.

I am just about to trade in my 2004 Civic Type S.

No one, and I mean no one, wants this car... I've been keeping tabs on all the eBay sales that are similar. Not one has sold for more than £2,000.

The dealer I'm getting my new car from not only gave me a discount on the price of his car (which was also the cheapest one at that spec anyway) and a lot of factored in work, but he's accepted mine with a £2,500 part exchange.

So, I've taken the tyre-kickers out of the equation, saved myself a lot of hassle and money, and got a new car... worth it to me.

jackdebray

53 posts

196 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
sc4589 said:
Wrong.

I am just about to trade in my 2004 Civic Type S.

No one, and I mean no one, wants this car... I've been keeping tabs on all the eBay sales that are similar. Not one has sold for more than £2,000.

The dealer I'm getting my new car from not only gave me a discount on the price of his car (which was also the cheapest one at that spec anyway) and a lot of factored in work, but he's accepted mine with a £2,500 part exchange.

So, I've taken the tyre-kickers out of the equation, saved myself a lot of hassle and money, and got a new car... worth it to me.
Well thats what you get for buying a Civic Type S and not an R...In all seriousness though the dealer is not doing it out of the kindness of his heart nor is he stupid...he will be well aware of what your civic is worth and factored in any likely hit on it into the overall profitability of the deal.

sleep envy

62,260 posts

269 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
getting back to the article, what does this mean for used car sales?

are fleets going to try and hold on to push up used values or will they blink first and start lowering their expectations/valuations?

VtecLover

111 posts

218 months

Monday 7th November 2011
quotequote all
A lot of dodgy stuff going on with the higher priced cars,
dodgy individuals buying them and giving them lower miles and shifting on for more..
or crashing them with lower reading to get more out of them, drug dealers using car auctions to clean their money etc all sorts ..
Thats why some are fetching more then book value.

all my opinion, i maybe wrong though..