What could replace petrol/diesel?
Discussion
With the price of petrol climbing, we must all start asked what will replace petrol?
Electric cars and hybrid seem to be the main answer from the car industry. Hydrogen fulled electric cars in the long term. Hydrogen and electric have problems, in fact the same problem. A lack of support infrastructure. Where do you recharge or full up with hydrogen? Are there other way to replace petrol and diesel.
In WW2 wood gas was used as a replacement fuel for petrol cars. It still is by a few people, but is not as powerful as petrol or diesel.
I personal like the idea of a wood burning steam car. Not really practical for mass use, still I like the idea for a one off just for me. I have read that Henry Ford considered steam as well as petrol engines for the Model T. How different would the world be if he had gone with steam?
I wonder what you lot will come up with?
Electric cars and hybrid seem to be the main answer from the car industry. Hydrogen fulled electric cars in the long term. Hydrogen and electric have problems, in fact the same problem. A lack of support infrastructure. Where do you recharge or full up with hydrogen? Are there other way to replace petrol and diesel.
In WW2 wood gas was used as a replacement fuel for petrol cars. It still is by a few people, but is not as powerful as petrol or diesel.
I personal like the idea of a wood burning steam car. Not really practical for mass use, still I like the idea for a one off just for me. I have read that Henry Ford considered steam as well as petrol engines for the Model T. How different would the world be if he had gone with steam?
I wonder what you lot will come up with?
My current theory for the long term is hydrogen/electric plug-in hybrids. So you run 90% of your miles on (efficiently generated) electricity taken from the national grid and then if you need to do a longer trip or can't charge it for some reason, the car fires up the fuel cell to run the motors and recharge the batteries from hydrogen fuel.
Of course that does need hydrogen fuel stations, although not that many if the electric range was good enough.
Of course that does need hydrogen fuel stations, although not that many if the electric range was good enough.
KDIcarmad said:
. A lack of support infrastructure. Where do you recharge or full up with hydrogen?
When petrol driven vehicles were rare finding a place to fill up with petrol was not easy, but you could get horse feed very easily, I imagine the same will happen if hydrogen fuel cell/hybrid vehicle become common, it is supply and demand, if people want to buy there will be people wanting to provide.
t out of it!! I read an article in the paper a few months ago which had a theory that until Hyrdrogen becomes financial viable people will have a little electric run around with a short range for small trips through the week. This being used for things like going work and back and then a Petrol/Diesel car for the weekend for those long trips away.
Makes sense and if electric cars were cheaper, which I'm sure they will become I'd get one just for my trips to work. Until then though I'm considering getting a little 50cc moped or 125cc bike for work, but the thought of winter puts me off.
Makes sense and if electric cars were cheaper, which I'm sure they will become I'd get one just for my trips to work. Until then though I'm considering getting a little 50cc moped or 125cc bike for work, but the thought of winter puts me off.
DanielC4GP said:
I read an article in the paper a few months ago which had a theory that until Hyrdrogen becomes financial viable people will have a little electric run around with a short range for small trips through the week. This being used for things like going work and back and then a Petrol/Diesel car for the weekend for those long trips away.
Makes sense and if electric cars were cheaper, which I'm sure they will become I'd get one just for my trips to work. Until then though I'm considering getting a little 50cc moped or 125cc bike for work, but the thought of winter puts me off.
I agree with this completely.Makes sense and if electric cars were cheaper, which I'm sure they will become I'd get one just for my trips to work. Until then though I'm considering getting a little 50cc moped or 125cc bike for work, but the thought of winter puts me off.
Electric cars are coming down in price. Electric scooters are already quite cheap, so cars shouldn't take too long. The only issue is battery life, especially as this will render the used car market obsolete for electrics unless the last longer.
Also I did go for a 125 bike (not a scooter mind you!)
It's fine in winter just so long as you have a car for when it snows. The cold/wet doesn't really affect you if you have the gear on, and it does make your journey far far quicker!
Efbe said:
DanielC4GP said:
I read an article in the paper a few months ago which had a theory that until Hyrdrogen becomes financial viable people will have a little electric run around with a short range for small trips through the week. This being used for things like going work and back and then a Petrol/Diesel car for the weekend for those long trips away.
Makes sense and if electric cars were cheaper, which I'm sure they will become I'd get one just for my trips to work. Until then though I'm considering getting a little 50cc moped or 125cc bike for work, but the thought of winter puts me off.
I agree with this completely.Makes sense and if electric cars were cheaper, which I'm sure they will become I'd get one just for my trips to work. Until then though I'm considering getting a little 50cc moped or 125cc bike for work, but the thought of winter puts me off.
Electric cars are coming down in price. Electric scooters are already quite cheap, so cars shouldn't take too long. The only issue is battery life, especially as this will render the used car market obsolete for electrics unless the last longer.
Also I did go for a 125 bike (not a scooter mind you!)
It's fine in winter just so long as you have a car for when it snows. The cold/wet doesn't really affect you if you have the gear on, and it does make your journey far far quicker!
Digging and drilling oil out of the ground isn't exactley cheap and easy either though.
Until there are more efficient ways of generating and storing electricity the internal combustion engine will be around for quite a bit longer.
Other fuels that can be burnt are CNG and LPG, there is lots of attention being paid to extracting methane from animal waste via digestors, currently this is very small scale, but could become far more viable if we wanted it too. Likewise Methane recovered from landfills and from the oceans is also possible and a lot of the infrastructure to support a CNG already exists and most cars could be coverted without too much hassle (although there is a cost).
As others have said the real key developments lie in battery or some other form of electrical storage, and the clean generation of electricity needed to power all these storage devices.
Until there are more efficient ways of generating and storing electricity the internal combustion engine will be around for quite a bit longer.
Other fuels that can be burnt are CNG and LPG, there is lots of attention being paid to extracting methane from animal waste via digestors, currently this is very small scale, but could become far more viable if we wanted it too. Likewise Methane recovered from landfills and from the oceans is also possible and a lot of the infrastructure to support a CNG already exists and most cars could be coverted without too much hassle (although there is a cost).
As others have said the real key developments lie in battery or some other form of electrical storage, and the clean generation of electricity needed to power all these storage devices.
I'm currently trailing a 100% electric car, and its going rather well!
It helps that I have charging points close to work, at my gym and at home, so it gets a top-up most days. My "fuel" electricity is only £10 per month.
As the technology develops and the range increases, I think they could get quite popular. The amount of R&D into electric cars and hence, the rate of improvement will be determined by how many people give them a go though.
It helps that I have charging points close to work, at my gym and at home, so it gets a top-up most days. My "fuel" electricity is only £10 per month.
As the technology develops and the range increases, I think they could get quite popular. The amount of R&D into electric cars and hence, the rate of improvement will be determined by how many people give them a go though.
FreeLitres said:
I'm currently trailing a 100% electric car, and its going rather well!
It helps that I have charging points close to work, at my gym and at home, so it gets a top-up most days. My "fuel" electricity is only £10 per month.
As the technology develops and the range increases, I think they could get quite popular. The amount of R&D into electric cars and hence, the rate of improvement will be determined by how many people give them a go though.
what kind of milage are you doing in it, per working day and per month?It helps that I have charging points close to work, at my gym and at home, so it gets a top-up most days. My "fuel" electricity is only £10 per month.
As the technology develops and the range increases, I think they could get quite popular. The amount of R&D into electric cars and hence, the rate of improvement will be determined by how many people give them a go though.
I have been thinking about doing this, though possibly when the tech is a little cheaper.
As a huge electric car fan can i say nothing will replace petrol/diesel 100%
Electric cars will take a chunk of the market once folk see that charging on their driveway is more convient then filling up at apetrol tax station for their car that rarely does more the 20 miles a day.
Plug-in hybrids/Range extended electric cars will take a chunk of the market for those paranoid about the range.
Small fossil fueled cars will be for those that are too poor to afford a proper house with a driveway.
Large fossil fueled cars will be for those that have a crap job that involves driving 50,000miles a year
For true petrolheads small petrol powered toys will still be around
and hydrogen power will carry on to be 20 years away as it has been for the past 20 years
Electric cars will take a chunk of the market once folk see that charging on their driveway is more convient then filling up at a
Plug-in hybrids/Range extended electric cars will take a chunk of the market for those paranoid about the range.
Small fossil fueled cars will be for those that are too poor to afford a proper house with a driveway.
Large fossil fueled cars will be for those that have a crap job that involves driving 50,000miles a year
For true petrolheads small petrol powered toys will still be around
and hydrogen power will carry on to be 20 years away as it has been for the past 20 years
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