Selling Boxster S to buy Caterham...advice & opinions sought
Discussion
I've had a Boxster S for almost three years now. It only ever gets out on sunny days, and its sole use is as a toy. The driving that I do is always on twisty tight little roads in rural Wales; the car rarely goes up to what I would class as 'high speeds', because it's not appropriate on the sort of roads that I drive ( some of these roads are plenty exciting at 60mph). The Boxster S barely does 2,000 miles per year, although I would add that every mile is a pleasure, so I still consider it well worthwhile.
Given that I only ever take the car out on dry sunny days, usually early in the day or late in the evening when the roads are quiet, and never for any practical purpose other than the pleasure & exhiliration of driving, I've begun to wonder whether something a little more raw and involving might not be more rewarding & exciting.
Much though I love the heated seats, the Bose stereo and the beautifully balanced handling of the Porsche, I'm beginning to suspect that for excitement on small country roads, a Caterham, or similar, may have the edge.
One of my friends recently drove a Caterham, and came away from that experience saying that it was, by a country mile, the most exciting and engaging car that he'd ever driven. So much so, that by comparison a Ferrari 430 and a Porsche GT3 felt, in his opinion, 'boat like and sluggish' afterwards. Needless to say, I was intrigued.
I've looked at Caterhams on here, and first impressions are that you pay a lot of money for something that looks very functional, but not really stylish or attractive. In fact, most of them look like something that has been put together with pop rivets and bits from 'Motorworld', yet they cost easily as much as a Boxster S. There's often no heater, the weather gear looks like it will flap about in a noisy and generally irritating way, there's no forgiving 'stability' programme to cut the power if you overcook things, in fact, there's nothing much on the cars bar a few 'Maplins' style switches and an uncomfortable looking bucket seat. That chassis looks like it might flex and twist under load; surely that's a bad thing, right?
Nonetheless, I'm beginning to feel myself drawn towards the damn things. Surely someone else on here has suffered this affliction and can appraise me of their experience. Did they come to regret their decision as they stotted over potholes and got hit in the face by bluebottles, or were they too busy grinning like Toad of Toad Hall at the sheer exhiliration of the thing.
I suspect that I may have to hire one of these Caterhams for a day or two in the new year, just to see what tey're really like, but in the meantime any advice, impressions and experience from those who are familiar with these cars would be much appreciated.
Given that I only ever take the car out on dry sunny days, usually early in the day or late in the evening when the roads are quiet, and never for any practical purpose other than the pleasure & exhiliration of driving, I've begun to wonder whether something a little more raw and involving might not be more rewarding & exciting.
Much though I love the heated seats, the Bose stereo and the beautifully balanced handling of the Porsche, I'm beginning to suspect that for excitement on small country roads, a Caterham, or similar, may have the edge.
One of my friends recently drove a Caterham, and came away from that experience saying that it was, by a country mile, the most exciting and engaging car that he'd ever driven. So much so, that by comparison a Ferrari 430 and a Porsche GT3 felt, in his opinion, 'boat like and sluggish' afterwards. Needless to say, I was intrigued.
I've looked at Caterhams on here, and first impressions are that you pay a lot of money for something that looks very functional, but not really stylish or attractive. In fact, most of them look like something that has been put together with pop rivets and bits from 'Motorworld', yet they cost easily as much as a Boxster S. There's often no heater, the weather gear looks like it will flap about in a noisy and generally irritating way, there's no forgiving 'stability' programme to cut the power if you overcook things, in fact, there's nothing much on the cars bar a few 'Maplins' style switches and an uncomfortable looking bucket seat. That chassis looks like it might flex and twist under load; surely that's a bad thing, right?
Nonetheless, I'm beginning to feel myself drawn towards the damn things. Surely someone else on here has suffered this affliction and can appraise me of their experience. Did they come to regret their decision as they stotted over potholes and got hit in the face by bluebottles, or were they too busy grinning like Toad of Toad Hall at the sheer exhiliration of the thing.
I suspect that I may have to hire one of these Caterhams for a day or two in the new year, just to see what tey're really like, but in the meantime any advice, impressions and experience from those who are familiar with these cars would be much appreciated.
I would probably go for it, as a Boxster S is a lot of car just to keep for so few miles a year. If I were looking at an every day car, the Boxster would be the obvious choice. But given the fact that you can afford to have a specialist car kept for very low miles and the sole purpose of having fun you'd be silly not to look at Caterhams and the like in detail.
I've had a few and TBH pretty much the only times they got used was for a blast on a sunny morning.
They are the best cars for fun but the cost of discomfort is such that I only did so few miles I sold mine.
For most an Elise or TVR is a better choice.
85% of the fun with 10% of the discomfort.
They are the best cars for fun but the cost of discomfort is such that I only did so few miles I sold mine.
For most an Elise or TVR is a better choice.
85% of the fun with 10% of the discomfort.
I tried one and bought as a toy within one month.
All I would say is that unless my personal financial situation imploded, the garage will always have a Caterham in it until I get too old to enjoy properly.
You mentioned chassis flex - these cars are used in motorsport - they are as sharp as a tack.
There really is nothing else like it
eta - to a certain degree I agree with redgriff, you really have to be in the mood to drive the Caterham - it's a very raw experience.
But seeing as I like track days and summer hooning, I don't think there is a better tool for the job.
All I would say is that unless my personal financial situation imploded, the garage will always have a Caterham in it until I get too old to enjoy properly.
You mentioned chassis flex - these cars are used in motorsport - they are as sharp as a tack.
There really is nothing else like it
eta - to a certain degree I agree with redgriff, you really have to be in the mood to drive the Caterham - it's a very raw experience.
But seeing as I like track days and summer hooning, I don't think there is a better tool for the job.
Edited by Matt UK on Tuesday 29th November 12:50
Llidiardau said:
One of my friends recently drove a Caterham, and came away from that experience saying that it was, by a country mile, the most exciting and engaging car that he'd ever driven. So much so, that by comparison a Ferrari 430 and a Porsche GT3 felt, in his opinion, 'boat like and sluggish' afterwards. Needless to say, I was intrigued.
Not the first who has made that comparison, lent my caterham to a ferrari driver at a trackday after he gave me a passenger ride and he came back after taking the 7 round the trck saying his ferrari felt like a boat.Llidiardau said:
I've looked at Caterhams on here, and first impressions are that you pay a lot of money for something that looks very functional, but not really stylish or attractive. In fact, most of them look like something that has been put together with pop rivets and bits from 'Motorworld', yet they cost easily as much as a Boxster S.
They have been pop riveted togetherLlidiardau said:
There's often no heater, the weather gear looks like it will flap about in a noisy and generally irritating way,
The weather gear is fecking useless i owned a caterham for 7 years and fitted the roof once. instead i bought a decent jacket and a hat. Think of it as a very practical motorbike instead of a very impractical car. As to the heater if fitted it has 2 settings. Off or melt bone but on either setting your head gets cold
Llidiardau said:
there's no forgiving 'stability' programme to cut the power if you overcook things,
Don't need a stability program as the car talks to you so bloody much if you spin one on the road you have been an ignoring the car telling you to stop being an arse.Llidiardau said:
in fact, there's nothing much on the cars bar a few 'Maplins' style switches and an uncomfortable looking bucket seat. That chassis looks like it might flex and twist under load; surely that's a bad thing, right?
if you get a full cage it reduces the chassis flex. never drivn one in anger without a cage so don't know about the uncaged car.
Llidiardau said:
Did they come to regret their decision as they stotted over potholes and got hit in the face by bluebottles,
You get used to the taste of insects I can identify most native flys on taste alone. As to the ride this is where the biggest shock comes with a caterham. The ride is by german standards exceedingly soft. The suspension is set up soft as it doesn't have a huge wieght to deal with and the best wheels are 13" which have big soft suishy sidewalls.Llidiardau said:
I suspect that I may have to hire one of these Caterhams for a day or two in the new year, just to see what tey're really like, but in the meantime any advice, impressions and experience from those who are familiar with these cars would be much appreciated.
This is the best thing you can do.As to running costs insurance is less then 300 a year, depreciation is almost zero, tyres are 70 to 100 pounds a corner and if you do manage to knock off a back wing a new one is about 300 including painting
I run a Boxster S and a Caterham, the former bought new in 2008 and the latter built from a kit in 1997. The Porsche is a superb vehicle whose performance I can never really exploit on the public roads; it's a pleasure to drive with plenty of kit and comfort features but I'd never describe it as truly exciting. The Caterham is an entirely different story. It's fast, but you can be trying quite hard and still be within legal limits which greatly increases the 'fun factor'. I use the car a lot in the summer just for the pleasure of driving and it's never disappointed and it certainly most at home on winding roads and mountainous territory - a day in the mountains behind Nice rates as one of the best driving experiences I've had in over 40 years.
In the end these are two quite different cars for different purposes; for sheer fun on occasional drives I don't think there's anything to match the Caterham in its price range.
Cheers,
Martin
In the end these are two quite different cars for different purposes; for sheer fun on occasional drives I don't think there's anything to match the Caterham in its price range.
Cheers,
Martin
I've done over 80,000 miles in my Caterham and agree with the poster who said there will always be a place in the garage for it (funds permitting etc).
Chassis flex - never noticed any.
Construction - yes, it's basic and whether you find that a problem is down to the individual. There are lots of owners who have "improved" the switchgear etc if you feel so inclined.
Heater - if fitted and on you'll have warm/hot legs and cold upper body.
Weather Gear - if fitted correctly it's watertight and effective. It takes me less than a minute to put the roof on (including undoing the harness, jumping out, unrolling the roof, fitting it and getting back in). It's noisier and claustrophobic with the roof on but sometimes necessary - top tip is to unzip the rear window to improve airflow.
Electronic Aids - there aren't any, this is a good thing.
Flies in the teeth
- not a problem with the windscreen on, can be painful with an aeroscreen on (helmet advisable for long aeroscreen drives).
Cost - £10k on a Caterham will give more performance than most other options. Running costs are low for the performance too helped by the light weight.
Chassis flex - never noticed any.
Construction - yes, it's basic and whether you find that a problem is down to the individual. There are lots of owners who have "improved" the switchgear etc if you feel so inclined.
Heater - if fitted and on you'll have warm/hot legs and cold upper body.
Weather Gear - if fitted correctly it's watertight and effective. It takes me less than a minute to put the roof on (including undoing the harness, jumping out, unrolling the roof, fitting it and getting back in). It's noisier and claustrophobic with the roof on but sometimes necessary - top tip is to unzip the rear window to improve airflow.
Electronic Aids - there aren't any, this is a good thing.
Flies in the teeth
- not a problem with the windscreen on, can be painful with an aeroscreen on (helmet advisable for long aeroscreen drives).Cost - £10k on a Caterham will give more performance than most other options. Running costs are low for the performance too helped by the light weight.
I’ve never driven a Boxster but have owned two Caterhams. I had had my current seven since 2007. I would agree with a lot of what has been said. They are terrific fun and for the miles and usage you are looking at they are ideal. I cover around 3000-4000 miles a year in my 1994 K series powered car. It probably only has 115bhp or thereabouts but the rev happy nature and 6 speed box more than make up for the lack of power. I have never found chassis flex to be a problem but will admit to not pushing past the limits on public roads. A few other positives include.
1. Cheap tyres. I recently bought 4 new Yokohama A021R’s for £310. These are 185/60/14’s
2. Very low or zero depreciation. My car is probably worth the same now as I paid for it in 2007.
3. Cheap insurance. I pay £130 a year fully comp for a limited mileage policy.
4. Cheap servicing. It uses a sierra diff and a rover engine.
5. I have never had a negative comments from the public. It is not an offensive car. Most people think it looks like something Noddy or Mister Toad might drive.
6. MPG is around 30 even when thrashed.
7. Very light so not hard on brakes or suspension components.
8. Good ride. Very little unsprung weight and usually had with generous tyre walls. Some people run 185/70/13’s although you can go to 205/45/16 I believe.
9. I actually find the hood and heater useful although getting into the car with the hood on can be a bit of a challenge!
Good luck!
1. Cheap tyres. I recently bought 4 new Yokohama A021R’s for £310. These are 185/60/14’s
2. Very low or zero depreciation. My car is probably worth the same now as I paid for it in 2007.
3. Cheap insurance. I pay £130 a year fully comp for a limited mileage policy.
4. Cheap servicing. It uses a sierra diff and a rover engine.
5. I have never had a negative comments from the public. It is not an offensive car. Most people think it looks like something Noddy or Mister Toad might drive.
6. MPG is around 30 even when thrashed.
7. Very light so not hard on brakes or suspension components.
8. Good ride. Very little unsprung weight and usually had with generous tyre walls. Some people run 185/70/13’s although you can go to 205/45/16 I believe.
9. I actually find the hood and heater useful although getting into the car with the hood on can be a bit of a challenge!
Good luck!
ewenm said:
Weather Gear - if fitted correctly it's watertight and effective. It takes me less than a minute to put the roof on (including undoing the harness, jumping out, unrolling the roof, fitting it and getting back in).
Thats probably the most outragious claim i've ever seen on herethinfourth2 said:
ewenm said:
Weather Gear - if fitted correctly it's watertight and effective. It takes me less than a minute to put the roof on (including undoing the harness, jumping out, unrolling the roof, fitting it and getting back in).
Thats probably the most outragious claim i've ever seen on here
In 80,000 miles of 7ing, I've learnt a lot (like keeping the hoodsticks loose, keeping the rear window unzipped, making sure the doors are correctly tucked into the roof at the top and outside at the rear edges, etc).
It also helps that I'm a skinny bloke so have little trouble getting in with the roof on.
thinfourth2 said:
ewenm said:
Weather Gear - if fitted correctly it's watertight and effective. It takes me less than a minute to put the roof on (including undoing the harness, jumping out, unrolling the roof, fitting it and getting back in).
Thats probably the most outragious claim i've ever seen on hereBoRED S2upid said:
I had a Westfield (Couldn't afford a Caterham) it was the most fun car ive ever had but I found myself only going for short blasts so now I have an MX5 in the garage for sunny days and the yearly European road trip.
+1Dont rule out a decent Westfield - the good ones are just as good as the Caterhams and you will get a newer, better engined car for the money.
Whether you consider a Caterham (or Westfield) suitable for long road trips is another one of those personal decisions. My OH and I enjoy touring in the 7 (including a 3 week, 4000 mile trip across the USA in 2005 with 40 other se7eners 
) but plenty of others will only do short blats/day trips.
) but plenty of others will only do short blats/day trips.Try one for yourself is the only answer.
It's all down to personal preference of course but I wouldn't worry too much about many of the points you raise.
I used the hood about 5 times in 3 years and it's not as difficult to errect or ineffective as many make out. The heater is less important than the correct clothing. Chassis flex? Never noticed. The ride is actually quite compliant - better than any car I've driven with runflat tyres. Switchgear is basic but does the job - what more do you need?
Having said all that, I sold my 7 a few years ago and now I'm looking at buying a Boxster...
It's all down to personal preference of course but I wouldn't worry too much about many of the points you raise.
I used the hood about 5 times in 3 years and it's not as difficult to errect or ineffective as many make out. The heater is less important than the correct clothing. Chassis flex? Never noticed. The ride is actually quite compliant - better than any car I've driven with runflat tyres. Switchgear is basic but does the job - what more do you need?
Having said all that, I sold my 7 a few years ago and now I'm looking at buying a Boxster...
Ecosseven said:
Usually takes me around 7-8 minutes at least. Do you have a half hood by any chance?
I do, great investment. Perfect when on the move - rain stays out yet still plenty of ventilation
However, if you are parked up and the wind is blowing the rain from behind you - not so perfect.
redgriff500 said:
For most an Elise or TVR is a better choice.
85% of the fun with 10% of the discomfort.
Yup, you either live for that raw 15% or you don't. If you don't then it will mostly stay in the garage.85% of the fun with 10% of the discomfort.
I went from a Caterham to a Boxster S and back to a Caterham (well, sort of in parallel, the Caterham was having major upgrade for a few years).
You will miss the precision engineered "mechanical" feeling of the Porsche. That isn't to say a Caterham doesn't feel mechanical, you still get the (very rare in modern cars IMHO) feeling that the thing you are doing involves metal and cogs and things but it doesn't have that delicacy.
The latest metric Steel Fab chassis is stiffer, the older ones do flex a little, but you would have to be pushing very very hard to be able to tell via the seat of your pants. It isn't like things rattle about, well maybe they do but you won't hear it
Assuming it hasn't got to be open top,I would also try a Noble.I've owned two,it will give you much much more fun than the Boxster and 95% of the no driver aids Caterham thrills, but with a decent heater and air-con etc.
I've driven Caterhams often,and got close to buying on several occasions (done slalom,full track days etc in them)they are brilliant when set up properly, but for some reason I've never gone through with it.
Either way for you, it's a nice position to be in.
I've driven Caterhams often,and got close to buying on several occasions (done slalom,full track days etc in them)they are brilliant when set up properly, but for some reason I've never gone through with it.
Either way for you, it's a nice position to be in.
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