Lexus I250 - major problems and need advice

[Roofas]

I will try and be succinct as I can as I don't want to bore you.

Bought an approved used 2008 Lexus IS250 from Lexus Swindon (I'm in Bedfordshire) last November.

Couple of weeks later, car developed a cold start rattle (sounded like tappets)but I couldn't take it back to Swindon due to work commitments.

Problem persisted so took it Lexus MK in January - they didn't (or couldn't be bothered to) diagnose the problem but problem was still there.

Problem was getting worse (the rattle would stay for longer and longer) so booked it in with Swindon.

Car then started to mis-fire on start up (it's an Auto) where the rev counter would go beserk and engine would shut down - no warning lights though. It did start and then normalise but later that day the brake pedal stayed depressed for a period of time and wouldn't return to it's original position.

Booked it in with Lexus Hatfield who 'recognised' the problem and changed parts under warranty. All was well for a few weeks after but then the rattle came back together with a chassis wobble caused by the engine.

Took it back to Hatfield who then diagnosed a timing chain - told to bring it back a couple weeks later. When I did, the Head Tech then said it wasn't a timing chain and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I took him for a drive, he heard the rattle but refused to work on the car any further. He became very arsey, saying 'warranty isn't a blank cheque' and that he would get the Lexus Customer Rep to come inspect the car and have the final say - this never materialised.

Just had the car in with Edgeware Road Lexus who said they identified the issue as a fuel pump - they changed it but the rattle is still there but I now have very worrying clunking noise on start up. The rattle is now no longer just on a cold start but is evident at all times, even after a M-way journey.

My extended warranty (12 months from Lexus dealer)is up on the 14th - 3 dealers have failed to identify the problem which is very evident and now the car seems even worse after Edgeware Road worked on it. Lexus HQ don't seem in the least bit interested, always telling me to go back to my dealer.

Now what do I do from here? I've been trying for almost 11 months to get this problem sorted but Lexus dealers seem either incapable or unwilling to fix this problem. I've read many stories of Lexus owners having there engines go pop and Lexus turning a blind eye leaving them £000's out of pocket.

Any help is much appreciated.

[Bezerk]

Google says..

It's a well known fault and there's a technical service information bulletin (TSIB) issued by Lexus on it, and how to fix it with a top end rebuild. It's TSIB EG017-07 for the States but I understand there's now a UK specific TSIB (don't know why it should be different) and covers '06-'07 IS250 models.

Here:

http://www.lexustsb.com/questions/202/TSIB+EG017-0...

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?s...

http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?s...

[Liquid Tuna]

Is there an area manager you can speak to?

[chris333]

I've got a 2006 IS250, which has had this startup rattle on and off pretty much since I bought it at three years ago.

In spite of numerous discussions with the dealer they couldn't/wouldn't fix it. When I finally found the UK TSIB, of course they say its out of warranty and want about £700 to fix. My suspicious mind says they knew it was a problem but delayed doing the TSIB until as many cars as possible were out of warranty.

I am really p***ed off about it, and it will probably lead me away from buying another Lexus again.

[Roofas]

Thanks, but mine is an 08 build and Hatfield said my chassis number indicated that the fix was already applied but Hatfield changed the appropriate parts anyway (don't know why if the fix was already applied).

Lexus HQ seem to not want to know about complaints - you ring them and their Customer service department sound like they just couldn't give a toss. The Head Tech at Hatfield said he would leave the decision to the Customer Rep for my area but this never happened - for some reason he went from very helpful to complete arse when I pointed out that the rattle hadn't been fixed.

Have to admit, that I'm completely shocked by Lexus customer service - never will I buy a Lexus again. Poorly built and designed cars with a hefty premium.

Edited by Roofas on Thursday 1st December 22:37

[DanielC4GP]

I would have thought because you notified the dealer of the problem within 6 months it's their responsibilty to rectify the problem or you can reject the car under the Sales of Goods Act. As far as I'm aware it doesn't matter how long the problem persits as long as the dealer is made aware of the problem within 6 months.

I'd call trading standards and get some advice and if you have proof in writing that you made them aware of the problems then I can't see them having a leg to stand on.

However if you do reject the car I know it can take sometimes years before you see your money returned and in that time you're not expected to drive the car. Like I said Trading Standards is your next step.

Edited by DanielC4GP on Thursday 1st December 22:51

[Roofas]

DanielC4GP said:

I would have thought because you notified the dealer of the problem within 6 months it's their responsibilty to rectify the problem or you can reject the car under the Sales of Goods Act. As far as I'm aware it doesn't matter how long the problem persits as long as the dealer is made aware of the problem within 6 months.

I'd call trading standards and get some advice and if you have proof in writing that you made them aware of the problems then I can't see them having a leg to stand on.

However if you do reject the car I know it can take sometimes years before you see your money returned and in that time you're not expected to drive the car. Like I said Trading Standards is your next step.

Edited by DanielC4GP on Thursday 1st December 22:51

I do have emails informing the Sales guy who sold me the car (who has now left), and his replies, about the problem and also requesting a collection of the car to take it back to Swindon but don't have any correspondence in writing to the Service Dept. Will be calling Trading Standards later -many thanks.

[SuperVM]

If you report a problem under warranty, I don't believe they can simply fob you off until the warranty expires. I think, though am not sure, the fact you have reported it under warranty means that you have far longer in which to get it sorted. Reading this page seems to indicate that if you can prove there was a serious defect with the car when you purchased it, then they may have to provide a repair:

http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/wirral/...

[mattyn1]

Roofas said:

DanielC4GP said:

I would have thought because you notified the dealer of the problem within 6 months it's their responsibilty to rectify the problem or you can reject the car under the Sales of Goods Act. As far as I'm aware it doesn't matter how long the problem persits as long as the dealer is made aware of the problem within 6 months.

I'd call trading standards and get some advice and if you have proof in writing that you made them aware of the problems then I can't see them having a leg to stand on.

However if you do reject the car I know it can take sometimes years before you see your money returned and in that time you're not expected to drive the car. Like I said Trading Standards is your next step.

Edited by DanielC4GP on Thursday 1st December 22:51

I do have emails informing the Sales guy who sold me the car (who has now left), and his replies, about the problem and also requesting a collection of the car to take it back to Swindon but don't have any correspondence in writing to the Service Dept. Will be calling Trading Standards later -many thanks.

Definitely call Trading Standards - I did this with a BMW that I eventually rejected on the AUC BMW scheme.

They will talk you through how to do this if that is the way you want to go - with me they were brilliant. It will end up you writing to the delaer to ask for full refund - apparently you must not ask them to fix it then ask for rejection - verbal contracts and all that.

Tonight I can send you the letter that got my refund within 25 minutes (I emailed the dealer manager). PM me something with your email. The letter I wrote was based on Trading Standards advice.

Unfortunately your contract will be with the dealer, Lexus UK will not be interested (had the same reaction from BMW UK).

You have my sympathies - I went through some stress with mine. It seems to be it is just a case of going about this the correct way.

[Roofas]

Ok, think I may have ballsed up a bit.

Spoke to the dealer principle who heard me out and then offered to repair it. I said no, I want to reject it - he said OK, we'll offer you the market value but at this point I thought he might be alluding to the Trade value, so I rejected that too (I know, should have ascertained what he actually meant by 'market value'). He then became abrupt and said it will now become a legal issue - things have become a tad attritional - my idiocy.

Trading Standards said it will be for a court to decide, yet when my wife spoke to them earlier, they made out that the world was on our side and we had every right to reject it.

Hmmmm, put my foot into it somewhat.........

[zaphod42]

Hmm, the market value might have been a fair offer - as you have had "value" from the car over the time.

If I were you I'd call again on Monday, explain that you were frustrated by the overall process and ask if you could restart the conversation to find out what the offer might be.

[Roofas]

Yes, that is what I'm planning to do tomorrow.

Blood......rush.....head.....ache

[bazking69]

I 'could' understand the dealers attitude but I find it very odd the Lexus UK aren't interested. Their customer service is usually impeccible when it comes to resolving issues and ultimately customer satisfaction.

[Ozzie Osmond]

The car's nearly 5 years old and you've had it for more than a year.....

Yes, I'm sure it's still under full manufacturer's warranty. Would you like them to replace the car or just put the car you bought into "as new" condition?

[Roofas]

Ozzie Osmond said:

The car's nearly 5 years old and you've had it for more than a year.....

Yes, I'm sure it's still under full manufacturer's warranty. Would you like them to replace the car or just put the car you bought into "as new" condition?

If that's directed at me, the car's just over 3 years old but within the 12 months approved-used warranty.

[surveyor]

I would suggest a letter to Belinda Poole, Director of Lexus at the head office, expressing disapointment in the brand and how unfair that a car they have sold under warrenty now has a rattling engine.

[Roofas]

Bit of an odd one now - wife wrote a letter to the previous owner who duly rang back. He stated that he was aware of the noise but it didn't really bother him BUT he did admit to having the dealer investigate it who duly turned around and said they couldn't find anything wrong.

He also stated that his friend also owns an IS250 with the exact issue which is driving him nuts and has been through 6 dealers in an attempt to find a solution but to no avail.

I haven't yet had a chance to speak again to the dealer principle but it does seem that they are/were aware of the problem with the car when it was sold. Do I mention that the previous owner has raised this issue or not as the admission was only verbal?

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Roofas said:

Took it back to Hatfield who then diagnosed a timing chain - told to bring it back a couple weeks later. When I did, the Head Tech then said it wasn't a timing chain and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I took him for a drive, he heard the rattle but refused to work on the car any further. He became very arsey, saying 'warranty isn't a blank cheque' and that he would get the Lexus Customer Rep to come inspect the car and have the final say - this never materialised.

Remember that the "dealers" are simply garages that are authorised to make repairs "under warranty", but essentially just charge Lexus for their labour and parts.
If they cannot justify the work to lexus, they do not get paid.

If you speak to Lexus directly, i.e. the area manager, they may be able to authorise more extensive repairs.

Push the dealer to speak to Lexus on your behalf, and if possible stick to one dealer, then they are responsible for the previous work and the lack of satisfactory resolution. They can also go back with a comprehensive history of the work completed to lexus to present a more solid claim for further work.

I appreciate it isn't always easy to stick to one dealer when you travel, but you become a regular customer that said dealer gets to know, rather than a random bloke from out of town trying to blag some more work done on his car and a courtesy car for the day!

HTH

[Petrolhead_Rich]

Roofas said:

If that's directed at me, the car's just over 3 years old but within the 12 months approved-used warranty.

In addition to my previous post: some "approved used" warranties are provided by 3rd party companies!

[Ozzie Osmond]

Roofas said:

the car's just over 3 years old but within the 12 months approved-used warranty.

Then,
1. Who actually "gave" the warranty in terms of an actual contract. The dealer, Lexus UK or a third party warranty company? You need to read the agreement carefully to find out.
2. Does your fault definitely fall within the terms of the warranty? You need to read the agreement carefully to find out.
3. Once you have an answer to 1 and the answer 'yes' to 2 you need to put something formally in writing very quickly setting out the history and telling them you want the car fixed under the terms of the warranty.
4. If in any doubt, get a solicitor to send the letter on your behalf.

Hope you get an acceptable fix of the problem.
OzOs