lupo 1.4 tuning, 200 bhp+? help please

[Iain83]

Hi there all ,

I am new here, so no idea where to place this as I cant see a VW forum here. Anyways is a gearhead, but no driving experience, so low insurance group needed? :S
I'd love to get something a bit fun to drive and all that, but insurance is a big problem as is fuel cost.
So I thought Id ask you guys:
. What a fun car would be to get, say £3000 - 5000
. As I am 28 I thought I was going to get a lower insurance quote but now there are 50 groups..so I am not really sure if lower is cheaper as it used to be?

. Was looking at a 2001 Lupo or so, and changing the engines out so its like 200 hp or something like that, 5-5.5 secs 0-60 is what I was aiming for. Obviously a front gearbox from a golf would make more sense with its trans axle. Tyres are small at 15" which will play a part I am sure in speeds. Brakes and suspension coilovers, + exhaust.
. For the above will I need a roll cage?
- or simply get a Lupo and k+n filter and keep it like that for 2 years or so then change out.
. does an engine change to the same size mean its modified? and how much will insurance change. (it is going from 75 to 200 hp
140/litre :P) actually expecting it to cost maybe £4k for the change out and parts

will be garaged and off road with alarm/immobilizer

Here are some other cars also high groups unfortunately.

the Citroen AX and Renault 5 turbo don't seem to be around so I guess not reliable. maybe a Clio or Saxo/C1/C2 but they seem to be everywhere, just like something a bit different.

Here are some other cars also high groups unfortunately. cars I am interested in but here for reference over groups.
Suzuki Capachino 13 GRP - expensive for tuning 0-60 8 sec
Lupo 1.4 - 3 GRP was thinking of changing the engine for a 1.4 tfsi mk 5 golf with chip (200 hp), as the engine is the same size, how does insurance look?
lupo gti 11 GRP
polo gti 12 GRP
clio 1.6 16v /1.7-1.8 8v 2nd/3rd gen
saxo vtr 2003 8v

[kambites]

In my experience, you pay more to insure a car modified to give a particular performance than to insure one that had that performance out of the factory.

[thinfourth2]

Buy a caterham/westfield

Cheap insurance and bonkers performance

[5lab]

you'd pay through the nose for a 200bhp lupo. it also potentially wouldn't be very good, as I doubt the engineers had 200bhp in mind when they built it.

as above, just get something that was that quick to start with. civic type r or a clio 182 are good starting points on your budget

[anonymous-user]

Where has the popcorn smilie gone?

[Tycho]

kambites said:

In my experience, you pay more to insure a car modified to give a particular performance than to insure one that had that performance out of the factory.

This, you'll get raped for any mods you do to get this kind of power.

[Meoricin]

Do insurance groups mean anything anymore? It's more about the risk profiles for each specific car, I've found. Some lower insurance group cars come back with far higher quotes than some high group ones (or did last time I was looking to buy).

[Dr Interceptor]

If you want to build a fast car, at least start with something that is moderately quick in the first place.

Fast and insurance friendly rarely go hand in hand either, so you're going to work out what you'd rather have.

[DaveH23]

Take insurance group with a pinch of salt and get some actual quotes you may be suprised.

As mentioned above insuring a standard good performace car will probably be cheaper then a modified car.

[davepoth]

Here's one.

[Fox-]

Surely this is a joke?

[kambites]

Meoricin said:

Do insurance groups mean anything anymore? It's more about the risk profiles for each specific car, I've found. Some lower insurance group cars come back with far higher quotes than some high group ones (or did last time I was looking to buy).

Insurance groups haven't been more than a rough guide for decades.

[DanDC5]

Meoricin said:

Do insurance groups mean anything anymore? It's more about the risk profiles for each specific car, I've found. Some lower insurance group cars come back with far higher quotes than some high group ones (or did last time I was looking to buy).

This is pretty much still the case. I'm 25 and I can insure a BMW M5 for a hell of a lot less than an Impreza...

[GregMac]

Either get a cheap car you can afford to run or get something quick and pay through the nose. Not only would an engine swap make insurance companies laugh at you, but it would also cost a bloody fortune to do

[R11ysf]

If you have no driving experience and therefore no no claims bonus then there is no way you are going to get insured on a 200bhp modified Lupo. It just won't happen. I have a 200bhp Mk1 Golf Gti and am 30 with 8 years NCB. If that wasn't my 2nd car with limited mileage on a classic policy it would cost me a fortune.

No NCB, normal policy £5k with ease.

[Caulkhead]

Iain83 said:

but no driving experience,

and

Iain83 said:

so low insurance group needed?

and

Iain83 said:

5-5.5 secs 0-60 is what I was aiming for.

That's a lot of performance for no driving experience and the insurers will rape you when you declare all the mods necessary to achieve those numbers.

I'd stop worrying about 0-60 until you get some driving experience wherein you will learn how irrelevant a measure it is. In the meantime get a Fiat Panda 100HP and get some experience behind you.

[aka_kerrly]

Its not all that bad. You can tune Lupos and other small cars to accept bigger engines but a lot depends on if you can do the work yourself or if you are paying. As a rough guide a drive in drive out 1.8 20VT conversion on a lupo will set you back £3-5k depending on the specification.

I know of a 20VT lupo that is over 230hp runs 30-45mpg on normal drives and is insured with a specialist which makes all the difference. Try the likes of Adrian Flux, Brentacre or Performance direct.

A lupo can also make quite a handy track car, if you look up David Rose & Bill Brockbank (badger 5) they both have very quick lupos.

BUT as others have said you really should try getting insurance quotes on standard fast cars.

As a extreme example I was recently quoted £1400 TPFT to insure a MG ZR120, where as I can insure a Mercedes 500SL for £700FC or a Skoda Octavia VRS for £350 FC so out of these cars the slowest is the most expensive to insure, the family saloon car is the cheapest and the brute of V8 coupe sits in the middle. If you look at the insurance groups you would expect a very different story!

[_rubinho_]

Iain83 said:

Anyways is a gearhead, but no driving experience, so low insurance group needed?

As I am 28 I thought I was going to get a lower insurance quote but now there are 50 groups..so I am not really sure if lower is cheaper as it used to be?

5-5.5 secs 0-60 is what I was aiming for.

Reading between the lines; you're 28, have limited driving experience and want a quick hatch for little outlay.

How long have you actually had your licence? Did you pass at 17 and just not drive for 11 years or have you only just passed your test? If it's the latter your insurance company will be taking your lack of experience over your age so it is naive to think that just because you are older your insurance will be cheaper.

In terms of driving, you have to think of yourself as an 18 year old. You should, however, have 10 years work experience or some qualifications and a good job so if you really want fast metal you should just pay for it like everybody else. Beware though, you will probably crash it like so many other 18 year olds in their first quick car.

If you really are a "gearhead" and you have only just passed your test at 28, what the fk have you been doing for the last 11 years instead of getting your licence?

[k15tox]

hi, I have a corsa 1.0 I'd like to get 150hp out of it.

I know people actually do this kind of thing and that's all good.

But how many people actually follow through with this?

How much money will be wasted? Plus you have to declare all mods remember, so will cost allot more to insure.

Start with a decent model and save yourself some money, because in all honesty I think the chances of you building and insuring 200hp lupo are pretty non-existent.

[Classic Grad 98]

Waste of time and money. Get some insurance quotes, if you can afford it buy a production performance car.