best hot hatch for the money?
Discussion
Locke said:
Civic Type-R ep3, Clio 182 are some of many. What are you wanting from your car?
well ive got a saxo vtr at the moment and i'd like something with a little more poke if you get what i mean.just something thats reliable and fast when it needs to be, not bothered about boot space or mod cons or anything like that.
nixon1 said:
MkIV VW Golf R32 
For under £5000? I was looking the other night and could not find a decent one for under £6500, and at that price point you aren't looking at an amazing one!Anyway, £5000 gives you loads of choice in the hot hatch segment, OP really needs to tell us more of what he really wants. I've driven and owned a few cars in this segment and you can get some really ace drivers cars here for little money. The EP3 Civic Type R gets my vote, but I will wait to hear more from the OP before I wax lyrical about how much I love it.
Mastodon2 said:
For under £5000? I was looking the other night and could not find a decent one for under £6500, and at that price point you aren't looking at an amazing one!
Anyway, £5000 gives you loads of choice in the hot hatch segment, OP really needs to tell us more of what he really wants. I've driven and owned a few cars in this segment and you can get some really ace drivers cars here for little money. The EP3 Civic Type R gets my vote, but I will wait to hear more from the OP before I wax lyrical about how much I love it.
i drove a 02 reg honda civic vtec type r 2.0L today and i thought it was ok, however, it didnt pickup speed as fast as i thought and the accelerator pedal was extremely hard to push down, plus it has a huge K&N aftermarket induction kit on it which made a horrible noise....but maybe all those faults where just with that one car and not with the model in general....Anyway, £5000 gives you loads of choice in the hot hatch segment, OP really needs to tell us more of what he really wants. I've driven and owned a few cars in this segment and you can get some really ace drivers cars here for little money. The EP3 Civic Type R gets my vote, but I will wait to hear more from the OP before I wax lyrical about how much I love it.
so like i said im looking for something fast but reliable...nut fussed about boot space, mod cons etc...
rockrocks said:
i drove a 02 reg honda civic vtec type r 2.0L today and i thought it was ok, however, it didnt pickup speed as fast as i thought and the accelerator pedal was extremely hard to push down, plus it has a huge K&N aftermarket induction kit on it which made a horrible noise....but maybe all those faults where just with that one car and not with the model in general....
so like i said im looking for something fast but reliable...nut fussed about boot space, mod cons etc...
They doing give the "Jet plane leaving the aircraft carrier" feeling that a turbo car does, but the VTEC means that they never feel breathless towards the top of a gear. The pedal should be firmly sprung but not at all stiff or heavy - not sure what the fault was there but that it does not sound right at all. If it had a K&N induction kit and it was an open cone with no heatshield on a short ram arm (so the air filter is close to the engine block) then it will suffer heatsoak from the engine so it will lose power and the throttle response will go flat. The real joy of the Type R thing is the instant response you get from the engine, probably the best gearbox you will ever own and a great chassis, whatever model you choose. so like i said im looking for something fast but reliable...nut fussed about boot space, mod cons etc...
Also, do not rule out Integras as mentioned, but in my experience they were a fair bit more to insure than an EP3, which is not cheap either, but then nothing in this section is. If you look at a JDM Import of any of these cars, the insurance will be a lot more again (group 20 in the old system, vs the UK EP3s group 17D).
If you want to feel a real surge of power on acceleration, as mentioned you could do worse than a Cupra R. I had one mapped to 270bhp with support induction and exhaust mods, lowered on coilovers. It was a great car, cornered well, avoided wheel spin exceptionally well, did not use too much fuel give it's power output either. There is well established modifying scene for VAG cars and there is a lot of choice for the 1.8L 20VT engine, you can get some decent power boosts from it fairly easily. The Type R has a lot of mods on the market too, but its expensive to get really big power gains from it and you will never take the leaps and bounds that a turbo car does in terms of power unless you went the forced induction route, which is very expensive, so the Cupra R is better in that respect. However, it was car that you would call "effective" rather than one having "finesse" - the instant reaction and light-footed feeling of the Type R sold it to me as it just seemed so mcuh more alive on the road, but perhaps you need to spend some time with a turbo car to really appreciate the Type R range.
Oh, if you like your cars sounding good, imo the Type R range are imo the best sounding 4 cylinder cars ever made, and there are a lot of modifications on the market to tune the sound to your liking.
The 3 MPS tempers it's fearsome power with absolutely dreadful styling, which goes a long way to destroying any 'character' the car has. Ultimately, they just don't feel that special which is the real coffin nail for them. Hot hatches are meant to excite.
I've seen the Seat Leon Cupra R mentioned here and the ones that are about 5 or 6 years old can be real bargains. As stated above, with a bit of money spent on tuning they can be seriously fast. I've been passenger in a tuned Leon Cupra R that was outrageously fast and no slouch in the corners with it's coilover suspension. It was handy on the B roads, but shone most on fast A roads. I know things always feel faster when you're a passenger, but thinking back to how quickly it reached silly speeds, I'm not convinced my MR2 Turbo is all that much faster, at least in a straight line. I know it probably is. However, this Seat really looked the business, and in spite of those looks it's performance still came as a shock!
For me, the pick of the current bunch is the Civic Type R EP3. I'm sure the Integra is perhaps a little more fun (though interestingly, not faster). However, the insurance costs of the EP3 are steeper and so is the market value. However, the one to buy is surely the DC2 which is getting old now. You'll have to get your beard on to go looking at them, and make sure you get a good one.
On the other hand, the EP3 is readily available in this country. I used to scoff at them, for being the hot hatch you saw on every corner. Having been in one now, I can see why they are so lauded. Absolutely stunning performance in a car that is set up to be fun and useable every day. The handling is superb, the gearbox feels tight and accurate and the whole thing just feels sharp and responsive. The interior is not spectacular, but you'd struggle to name a good hot hatch where it is! The EP3 is the king of the naturally aspirated category and the Seat Leon Cupra R is undoubtedly the best in the forced induction category.
There is a lot of choice in the market, though, so make sure you buy something that sutis you. If you need space or have kids to cart around, a Focus ST might be right for you. However, the lazy performance, thirsty engine, low rent looks and middle of the road chassis setup and handling might not be for you.
If you're looking for something with one finger the GT pie, a Civic Type R FN2 might be for you. Nowhere near as sharp or precise as the EP3, the FN2 may initially seem like Honda getting things badly wrong. And I suppose they did, as it doesn't hold a candle to the EP3 as far as driver pleasure is concerned. But the interior is nice, it's a good relaxed cruiser with the ability to hustle a little bit if you need it to. The suspension is famously stiff and the ride is known for being fairly brutal, especially on the 19" Rage alloys, so watch out for that.
I've seen the Seat Leon Cupra R mentioned here and the ones that are about 5 or 6 years old can be real bargains. As stated above, with a bit of money spent on tuning they can be seriously fast. I've been passenger in a tuned Leon Cupra R that was outrageously fast and no slouch in the corners with it's coilover suspension. It was handy on the B roads, but shone most on fast A roads. I know things always feel faster when you're a passenger, but thinking back to how quickly it reached silly speeds, I'm not convinced my MR2 Turbo is all that much faster, at least in a straight line. I know it probably is. However, this Seat really looked the business, and in spite of those looks it's performance still came as a shock!
For me, the pick of the current bunch is the Civic Type R EP3. I'm sure the Integra is perhaps a little more fun (though interestingly, not faster). However, the insurance costs of the EP3 are steeper and so is the market value. However, the one to buy is surely the DC2 which is getting old now. You'll have to get your beard on to go looking at them, and make sure you get a good one.
On the other hand, the EP3 is readily available in this country. I used to scoff at them, for being the hot hatch you saw on every corner. Having been in one now, I can see why they are so lauded. Absolutely stunning performance in a car that is set up to be fun and useable every day. The handling is superb, the gearbox feels tight and accurate and the whole thing just feels sharp and responsive. The interior is not spectacular, but you'd struggle to name a good hot hatch where it is! The EP3 is the king of the naturally aspirated category and the Seat Leon Cupra R is undoubtedly the best in the forced induction category.
There is a lot of choice in the market, though, so make sure you buy something that sutis you. If you need space or have kids to cart around, a Focus ST might be right for you. However, the lazy performance, thirsty engine, low rent looks and middle of the road chassis setup and handling might not be for you.
If you're looking for something with one finger the GT pie, a Civic Type R FN2 might be for you. Nowhere near as sharp or precise as the EP3, the FN2 may initially seem like Honda getting things badly wrong. And I suppose they did, as it doesn't hold a candle to the EP3 as far as driver pleasure is concerned. But the interior is nice, it's a good relaxed cruiser with the ability to hustle a little bit if you need it to. The suspension is famously stiff and the ride is known for being fairly brutal, especially on the 19" Rage alloys, so watch out for that.
Fabia VRS - loads of MPG and real World torque, 130 BHP
Or 165 BHP for £300 here http://jabbasport.com/remaps.php
Or 165 BHP for £300 here http://jabbasport.com/remaps.php
Ah, thought prices were lower than that - shouldn't be long before they fit the budget though.
Also, whilst some see the styling as dull, I quite like how discrete they are - the mk1s have to be examined before you can tell what it is (for someone without a beard) where the mk2 has a massive gash in the bonnet.
Agree on the vrs, but don't know much of the view held by those here on PH, being a derv. A simple remap seems to make them feel fast enough, given the nice slug of torque - whilst 0-60 times aren't exactly staggering. Also, insurance seems totally reasonable (have been quoted £1200 as a 19 year old where the petrol opposition seem to be about double).
Also, whilst some see the styling as dull, I quite like how discrete they are - the mk1s have to be examined before you can tell what it is (for someone without a beard) where the mk2 has a massive gash in the bonnet.
Agree on the vrs, but don't know much of the view held by those here on PH, being a derv. A simple remap seems to make them feel fast enough, given the nice slug of torque - whilst 0-60 times aren't exactly staggering. Also, insurance seems totally reasonable (have been quoted £1200 as a 19 year old where the petrol opposition seem to be about double).
Scott888 said:
Also, whilst some see the styling as dull, I quite like how discrete they are - the mk1s have to be examined before you can tell what it is
It largely depends on whether or not you think the 'grandad doing the shopping' look is a good one. I suspect that will ultimately decide whether or not you'd want a mk1 3 MPS.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff