Discussion
Was just looking at the thread about the Audi A5, they seem to be between 1600 and 1700 kilos which seems a quite heavy, pretty much the same weight as a Ford Galaxy, I read in Autocar that a diesel A4 cabrio weights nearly two tonnes. I am thinking its not just Audi producing really heavy cars, most SUV's are between two and three tonnes and even superminis are generally 1200 plus kilos.
Does it actually matter ? to me it seems a lot of the efficiency gains have been eaten up by the rise in weight.
Do you think we have seen the zenith of car weights, will it come down or go up due to batteries in electric cars being so heavy ?
Anyone got any ideas of where the manufacturers could shave a few kilos off, stuff you could do without to save weight. I think they are making improvements but they still seem to make every new model that bit bigger than the last and proudly claim its not got any heavier.
Do you think Carbon fibre or other materials will make an appearance in mainstream cars other than a veneer for dash inlays or will it always be too expensive ?
Does it actually matter ? to me it seems a lot of the efficiency gains have been eaten up by the rise in weight.
Do you think we have seen the zenith of car weights, will it come down or go up due to batteries in electric cars being so heavy ?
Anyone got any ideas of where the manufacturers could shave a few kilos off, stuff you could do without to save weight. I think they are making improvements but they still seem to make every new model that bit bigger than the last and proudly claim its not got any heavier.
Do you think Carbon fibre or other materials will make an appearance in mainstream cars other than a veneer for dash inlays or will it always be too expensive ?
J4CKO said:
Was just looking at the thread about the Audi A5, they seem to be between 1600 and 1700 kilos which seems a quite heavy, pretty much the same weight as a Ford Galaxy, I read in Autocar that a diesel A4 cabrio weights nearly two tonnes. I am thinking its not just Audi producing really heavy cars, most SUV's are between two and three tonnes and even superminis are generally 1200 plus kilos.
Does it actually matter ? to me it seems a lot of the efficiency gains have been eaten up by the rise in weight.
Do you think we have seen the zenith of car weights, will it come down or go up due to batteries in electric cars being so heavy ?
Anyone got any ideas of where the manufacturers could shave a few kilos off, stuff you could do without to save weight. I think they are making improvements but they still seem to make every new model that bit bigger than the last and proudly claim its not got any heavier.
Do you think Carbon fibre or other materials will make an appearance in mainstream cars other than a veneer for dash inlays or will it always be too expensive ?
Need to reduce weight but buying public don't recognise as a good thing.Does it actually matter ? to me it seems a lot of the efficiency gains have been eaten up by the rise in weight.
Do you think we have seen the zenith of car weights, will it come down or go up due to batteries in electric cars being so heavy ?
Anyone got any ideas of where the manufacturers could shave a few kilos off, stuff you could do without to save weight. I think they are making improvements but they still seem to make every new model that bit bigger than the last and proudly claim its not got any heavier.
Do you think Carbon fibre or other materials will make an appearance in mainstream cars other than a veneer for dash inlays or will it always be too expensive ?
just about all cars have got heavy as we demand more toys and safer cars
the problem with carbon is not so much the cost but the speed at which you can mass produce it
weights not the be all and end all either as the GTR has shown
I seam to remember that maclaren said that you want to be about 1250kgs for high speed stability
the problem with carbon is not so much the cost but the speed at which you can mass produce it
weights not the be all and end all either as the GTR has shown
I seam to remember that maclaren said that you want to be about 1250kgs for high speed stability
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Sunday 1st January 16:33
Blueeleven said:
J4CKO said:
Was just looking at the thread about the Audi A5, they seem to be between 1600 and 1700 kilos which seems a quite heavy, pretty much the same weight as a Ford Galaxy, I read in Autocar that a diesel A4 cabrio weights nearly two tonnes. I am thinking its not just Audi producing really heavy cars, most SUV's are between two and three tonnes and even superminis are generally 1200 plus kilos.
Does it actually matter ? to me it seems a lot of the efficiency gains have been eaten up by the rise in weight.
Do you think we have seen the zenith of car weights, will it come down or go up due to batteries in electric cars being so heavy ?
Anyone got any ideas of where the manufacturers could shave a few kilos off, stuff you could do without to save weight. I think they are making improvements but they still seem to make every new model that bit bigger than the last and proudly claim its not got any heavier.
Do you think Carbon fibre or other materials will make an appearance in mainstream cars other than a veneer for dash inlays or will it always be too expensive ?
Need to reduce weight but buying public don't recognise as a good thing.Does it actually matter ? to me it seems a lot of the efficiency gains have been eaten up by the rise in weight.
Do you think we have seen the zenith of car weights, will it come down or go up due to batteries in electric cars being so heavy ?
Anyone got any ideas of where the manufacturers could shave a few kilos off, stuff you could do without to save weight. I think they are making improvements but they still seem to make every new model that bit bigger than the last and proudly claim its not got any heavier.
Do you think Carbon fibre or other materials will make an appearance in mainstream cars other than a veneer for dash inlays or will it always be too expensive ?
I think a lot of the extra weight has gone into all the "mod cons", if we shaved off all those unnecessaries like 'lecky windows, mirrors, seats, air con, etc. then that a fair bit saved right there. But do buyers want the toys or a lighter car?
I imagine a lot of the increased weight has also gone into increased safety - stronger shell, side impact bars, air bags and all the rest of it. I swapped a door on my 3 door mk4 Golf, you wouldn't believe how heaavy the thing was. I think it's partly a vicious circle, the heavier cars become the more the crash protection needs to be improved, and so on. Again, these safety features sell cars and we wouldn't want to go without them now.
I imagine a lot of the increased weight has also gone into increased safety - stronger shell, side impact bars, air bags and all the rest of it. I swapped a door on my 3 door mk4 Golf, you wouldn't believe how heaavy the thing was. I think it's partly a vicious circle, the heavier cars become the more the crash protection needs to be improved, and so on. Again, these safety features sell cars and we wouldn't want to go without them now.
It's a real problem; my Aston is a 3.0 straight 6 and weighs 1.25 tons (1270kg) which is very light compared to equivalent grown up sports GTs these days. The problem is that i) cars have got progressively bigger and ii) they are loaded with air/con, electric seats, air-bags, crash protection, computers for this that and the other and lord knows what other gizmos one expects today all of which add weight. When I was a kid something like a Hillman Hunter or a Ford Consul was considered a big car, follow one now and they look small. I read recently that a VW Polo is now as big as the early Golfs. Meanwhile to out-do these expanded small cars people buy massive 4x4 off roaders because of the view of the road they afford. Meanwhile car parking spaces and road widths remain the same size and driving becomes ever more stressful. I hate the fashion for ever larger and heavier cars. 
I get the impression that manufacturers are resisting it as far as possible. I remember TopGear telling me that Ford reduced the weight of the Fiesta by 40kg across the range between the mk6 and mk7. Weight and the larger brakes, tougher suspension and tougher drivetrains to handle it is all detrimental to MPG which seems to be the be-all and end-all currently.
I for one would rather manufacturers had gone down the route of meeting economy targets by using lightweight materials and design, and more effective engineering of non stress critical components, and still using 195 section tyres and manual gearboxes etc.
I for one would rather manufacturers had gone down the route of meeting economy targets by using lightweight materials and design, and more effective engineering of non stress critical components, and still using 195 section tyres and manual gearboxes etc.
Jimmyarm said:
Alloy wheels were originally made in the effort to reduce weight I was taught at college.
The difference between the weight of an alloy on a modern focus or similar and the steel equivalent is quite shocking !
Some of the bigger VAG wheels weigh a huge amount.
Can imagine, everything seems to have 17 inch wheels as a minimum, with 225 section tyres, but at least they save the weight of a sidewall these days.The difference between the weight of an alloy on a modern focus or similar and the steel equivalent is quite shocking !
Some of the bigger VAG wheels weigh a huge amount.
Classic Grad 98 said:
hornetrider said:
Mazda as a manufacturer are shedding weight across the range to improve efficiency and dynamics, whilst keeping safety and toys. Just takes a bit more thought in the design process probably. It's the way forward.
+1J4CKO said:
This is the Skyactiv thing isnt it, good on them, brave move given the love for loads of toys, premium interiors and the like.
Who knows, being Mazda may it spread to Ford? Maybe the next gen Ka can be as much fun as the first... not to mention finally getting a hot feeling focus back...Jimmyarm said:
Alloy wheels were originally made in the effort to reduce weight I was taught at college.
The difference between the weight of an alloy on a modern focus or similar and the steel equivalent is quite shocking !
Some of the bigger VAG wheels weigh a huge amount.
The difference between the weight of an alloy on a modern focus or similar and the steel equivalent is quite shocking !
Some of the bigger VAG wheels weigh a huge amount.
I was astounded by how much the OEM 18 inch wheels on our Octavia VRS weigh. I really struggled to lift them over my head when putting them in the loft space of our garage for the winter. No wonder the ride is so terrible with them on. Classic Grad 98 said:
...And the '6' is a Mondeo, isn't it?
The current one, yes. The next one, no - it's a Mazda from bottom to top, front to back
Ford sold most of there shares a couple of years ago, and now hold less than 7% of Mazda, and apart from the BT-50/Ranger (the BT-50 isn't coming to Europe) there will no longer. be any parts sharing going on
Classic Grad 98 said:
J4CKO said:
This is the Skyactiv thing isnt it, good on them, brave move given the love for loads of toys, premium interiors and the like.
Who knows, being Mazda may it spread to Ford? Maybe the next gen Ka can be as much fun as the first... not to mention finally getting a hot feeling focus back...Also... expect to pay more for the lighter materials used in the newer mazda's.
kambites said:
Jimmyarm said:
Alloy wheels were originally made in the effort to reduce weight I was taught at college.
The difference between the weight of an alloy on a modern focus or similar and the steel equivalent is quite shocking !
Some of the bigger VAG wheels weigh a huge amount.
The difference between the weight of an alloy on a modern focus or similar and the steel equivalent is quite shocking !
Some of the bigger VAG wheels weigh a huge amount.
I was astounded by how much the OEM 18 inch wheels on our Octavia VRS weigh. I really struggled to lift them over my head when putting them in the loft space of our garage for the winter. No wonder the ride is so terrible with them on. I had some 18" XKR wheels on my Forty, compared to the standard 16's they feel heavier, don't ride as well and cause tramlining. Personally I think the handling is better on the more donuty tyres, I'm not really sure what the point of these big rims is other than the fact that they can look more cool.
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