Engine cut out at junction
Discussion
Hi getting no luck in ford forum so repost sorry, my 82 Ford Escort XR3 carb. is getting problematic.
The engine runs really warm and it has trouble keeping a sensible temp through towns. On motorways in this weather it sits at quarter temp as would be expected.
Recently it keeps cutting out at junctions when warm, it just wont idle right.
And today it's top speed was a full 35mph lower than usual. Poor thing is getting ill.
It is overdue a service, last December the head gasket went so it had a service 12 months ago.
I have new plugs to go in, and will be buying leads, dizzy cap rotor arm.
A mechanic messed with it trying to trouble shoot what turned out to be a faulty fuel pick up unit in petrol tank, he twisted my distributer now it bogs down for 3 seconds when accelerating, before coming to life and having a decent smooth power curve. and he changed something that made it idle at a different speed, but it was fine for 2 months. Until now.
Also 12 months later there is still (now and again) cream on filler cap, Im paranoid about the headgasket! In 6 months the expansion tank is just nearing the min mark
The engine runs really warm and it has trouble keeping a sensible temp through towns. On motorways in this weather it sits at quarter temp as would be expected.
Recently it keeps cutting out at junctions when warm, it just wont idle right.
And today it's top speed was a full 35mph lower than usual. Poor thing is getting ill.
It is overdue a service, last December the head gasket went so it had a service 12 months ago.
I have new plugs to go in, and will be buying leads, dizzy cap rotor arm.
A mechanic messed with it trying to trouble shoot what turned out to be a faulty fuel pick up unit in petrol tank, he twisted my distributer now it bogs down for 3 seconds when accelerating, before coming to life and having a decent smooth power curve. and he changed something that made it idle at a different speed, but it was fine for 2 months. Until now.
Also 12 months later there is still (now and again) cream on filler cap, Im paranoid about the headgasket! In 6 months the expansion tank is just nearing the min mark
Sounds like he has changed so much he is just guessing at the timing. I would get her set up properly on a rolling road, it's the only way of doing it properly.
Have you cleaned the oil cap since the rebuild?
How often and far has the car been driven in the last year to have lost (approx) a litre of coolant?
Have you cleaned the oil cap since the rebuild?
How often and far has the car been driven in the last year to have lost (approx) a litre of coolant?
The car is used every day I would guess in around the 12 months maybe 6,000 miles or more, and yea about 1 litre of coolant lost. Other than when the MOT man boiled it over due to failed cooling fan wiring.
I clean the oil cap regularly, yes it was cleaned after rebuild. Any time I drive the car hard I have a look to see if there's cream, there isn't usually. However on two occasions since putting of litre of oil in it there's been cream again, its sporadic really as today I did a 100mile round trip with fast motorway driving and there is none.
I'm told it can happen in winter, but to me cream means water in oil, and water in oil = failed headgasket. maybee there's still some in from last year I don't know, we did change the oil and oil filter.
I clean the oil cap regularly, yes it was cleaned after rebuild. Any time I drive the car hard I have a look to see if there's cream, there isn't usually. However on two occasions since putting of litre of oil in it there's been cream again, its sporadic really as today I did a 100mile round trip with fast motorway driving and there is none.
I'm told it can happen in winter, but to me cream means water in oil, and water in oil = failed headgasket. maybee there's still some in from last year I don't know, we did change the oil and oil filter.
dibbers006 said:
does it have Lambda sensors down the exhaust system? Do you have a standard exhaust, does it have a CAT... if yes to these, what sort of condition?
Does it have a Coil Packs? What state are they in? If they are getting hot after a run and as you slow down it cuts out?
Do you have a fuel pump relay? What condition is that?
What condition is your fuel pump in? Have you tried replacing that?
Does it have a Coil Packs? What state are they in? If they are getting hot after a run and as you slow down it cuts out?
Do you have a fuel pump relay? What condition is that?
What condition is your fuel pump in? Have you tried replacing that?
Shouldn't be losing any coolant so that needs to be addressed. Could be crack in cylinder head may need to be removed and checked by a specialist to find it.
Separately it sounds like your timing is all f
ked up so needs to be set up by somebody competent (not the person who worked on your car before). You can't just remove the distributor and put it back in a different position & all is A-OK.
Thirdly it could be the fuel return that is causing a cutting out fault. We used to block the return pipe to the tank (on ford sierras rather than xr3's) - you could do this to see if it solves the problem. One of the rubber pipes from the fuel pump at the engine end is a return pipe, and can be blocked off (temporarily). This is from long-distant memory so you will need to check the fuel-return / pump info in a manual as I can't remember properly if xr3 etc had that type of pump. Definitely the case in sierras though. ISTR it was mounted to the inner wing somewhere.
It could also be the electronic module on top of the dist. I can't remember what it does but I have a vague memory of changing a few of them in the past. See black box on top of dist in this pic
Separately it sounds like your timing is all f
ked up so needs to be set up by somebody competent (not the person who worked on your car before). You can't just remove the distributor and put it back in a different position & all is A-OK.Thirdly it could be the fuel return that is causing a cutting out fault. We used to block the return pipe to the tank (on ford sierras rather than xr3's) - you could do this to see if it solves the problem. One of the rubber pipes from the fuel pump at the engine end is a return pipe, and can be blocked off (temporarily). This is from long-distant memory so you will need to check the fuel-return / pump info in a manual as I can't remember properly if xr3 etc had that type of pump. Definitely the case in sierras though. ISTR it was mounted to the inner wing somewhere.
It could also be the electronic module on top of the dist. I can't remember what it does but I have a vague memory of changing a few of them in the past. See black box on top of dist in this pic
Edited by CoolHands on Sunday 1st January 18:46
I would give it a decent service along with plugs, leads, points, condenser etc & set the timing (you don't need a rolling road)The chances are this will sort it. If not it gives you a basis to start diagnosis. Do the simple things 1st.
Always worth peering under the bonnet engine running after dark to see if you have any stray electrickery.
Always worth peering under the bonnet engine running after dark to see if you have any stray electrickery.
Edited by Blueeleven on Sunday 1st January 18:43
Have you got the standard air filter and housing installed?
Sounds like carb ice to me.
Need to get the timing setup to 8 degrees before top dead centre and get the fueling setup whilst you are at it. You have the very good weber carb rather than the horrid Ford VV carb so least it rules that out!
Sounds like carb ice to me.
Need to get the timing setup to 8 degrees before top dead centre and get the fueling setup whilst you are at it. You have the very good weber carb rather than the horrid Ford VV carb so least it rules that out!
It may have a VV carb which are a bit crap. they have a diaphram which may well have perished and will cause no end of hassle, I would get it timed up correctly first as that could cause it to run hot then when you have the base settings right if it still runs bad you need to look at having the carb rebuilt IMVHO.
On the other hand it may have a Weber which would be a whole different story! I worked on these when they were new but time has clouded my memory a tad!
On the other hand it may have a Weber which would be a whole different story! I worked on these when they were new but time has clouded my memory a tad!
What do the spark plugs look like? They might give you a clue - see here
Actually, my first step would probably be to obtain a timing light and a Gunson's Colourtune (or CO meter) to get the mixture and timing right. Then you can see if that's the cause of the problem or if there's something else like an inlet manifold leak.
Actually, my first step would probably be to obtain a timing light and a Gunson's Colourtune (or CO meter) to get the mixture and timing right. Then you can see if that's the cause of the problem or if there's something else like an inlet manifold leak.
dibbers006 said:
I'll be honest, I skim read your post and my knowledge is on slightly newer Fords...
Does it have Lambda sensors down the exhaust system? Do you have a standard exhaust, does it have a CAT... if yes to these, what sort of condition?
Does it have a Coil Packs? What state are they in? If they are getting hot after a run and as you slow down it cuts out?
Do you have a fuel pump relay? What condition is that?
Have you had your fuse box apart as the condition of the centre of those can deteriorate without any noticeable problems bar a few 'glitches'.
What condition is your fuel pump in? Have you tried replacing that?
Apologies if these are not relevant to your car specifically.
So why post? Typical PH response. I know fDoes it have Lambda sensors down the exhaust system? Do you have a standard exhaust, does it have a CAT... if yes to these, what sort of condition?
Does it have a Coil Packs? What state are they in? If they are getting hot after a run and as you slow down it cuts out?
Do you have a fuel pump relay? What condition is that?
Have you had your fuse box apart as the condition of the centre of those can deteriorate without any noticeable problems bar a few 'glitches'.
What condition is your fuel pump in? Have you tried replacing that?
Apologies if these are not relevant to your car specifically.
k all about the car so wil list loads of things that this car doesn't ahve since it's a 1983 car with a CARB 
Does it have coilpacks? 
He's already said DISTRIBUTOR! So No, it's got HT leads funnily enough Sensible answer for the OP.
Sounds like the carb needs stripping and looking at. Particulalry the idle jet and associated parts. Then check the gasket on the manifold it sits on. Then get the timing set PROPERLY with a strobe light.
Coolant loss is not unheard of on CVHs. As the other poster said get it block checked
Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 1st January 18:58
The head was pressure tested and skimmed 12 months ago and given the all clear.
I'm going to use an engine oil flush then do the service, I neglected to do this after headgasket rebuild.
And then it's going to get the full service air filter plugs leads cap rotor arm etc, and I'll ask my Dad for help with a timing light, he's just explained the theory down the phone including summit to do with a vacume hose and advance....
I'll check the fuel return, I had issues in November and after a lot of troubleshooting of the whole fuel system found the pickup pipe in the tank kept jumping out of the petrol when low as it used to be in a fixed position but has come loose from the plate it's hosed on/in...
Yes, nice Webber carb
Its on a standard air filter, with the engine mods it should have a K&N in fact it used to but wouldnt fit under the bonnet when I fitted an original bonnet that wasnt on spacers.
I'm told the automatic choke on XR3s is the cause of a lot of grief, but Im loathed to fit a manual choke, it should just work!
I'm going to use an engine oil flush then do the service, I neglected to do this after headgasket rebuild.
And then it's going to get the full service air filter plugs leads cap rotor arm etc, and I'll ask my Dad for help with a timing light, he's just explained the theory down the phone including summit to do with a vacume hose and advance....
I'll check the fuel return, I had issues in November and after a lot of troubleshooting of the whole fuel system found the pickup pipe in the tank kept jumping out of the petrol when low as it used to be in a fixed position but has come loose from the plate it's hosed on/in...
Yes, nice Webber carb
Its on a standard air filter, with the engine mods it should have a K&N in fact it used to but wouldnt fit under the bonnet when I fitted an original bonnet that wasnt on spacers.I'm told the automatic choke on XR3s is the cause of a lot of grief, but Im loathed to fit a manual choke, it should just work!
So, the head was skimmed (which alters the timing on an OHC engine), and it sounds like the timing is knackered anyway. It has a carb that's definitely out of tune (it would be running rich with the normal filter compared to a K&N). Combined with that you have a coolant loss (which suggests another head gasket blow, or bad seal due to lack of retorquing).
I think you need to find a mechanic who knows what they are talking about TBH.
I think you need to find a mechanic who knows what they are talking about TBH.
Rich_W said:
Then check the gasket on the manifold it sits on.
yeah forgot that. Ask for 'carb base plate gasket' in a ford dealer it's not expensive. Some fords (can't remember that one particularly) had two gaskets either side of a 'block' about 5 or 6mm deep, and then the carb. i.e. you had inlet manifold / gasket / 5 or 6mm block / gasket / carb. So you need to replace both gaskets (you'll know when you undo the carb).Also check simple things like is the carb tight? (try rockeing the airfilter whilst looking at the carb - a suprising number work loose on those cars). Plus check vacuum hoses etc are all in good condition / attached where they should be.
When you say the coolant boiled over, was this after the head test? The CVH isn't known for blowing h/g's left right and centre, but I've done one spectacularly on the M40 and had doubts over another. Dizzy timing in a lot of cases you can do by ear and then check for pinking, it's not going to be far off at that.
When I first read your post I was reminded of my old Fiesta, it'd cut out at the same place at the same time every morning, whether it needed choke or not. Which brings me onto another thing, is it auto choke or manual?
I think the engine temps are also related to the timing btw, assuming the head hasn't cracked from the boiling over at the MOT. Compression tester will tell you what you need to know on that
When I first read your post I was reminded of my old Fiesta, it'd cut out at the same place at the same time every morning, whether it needed choke or not. Which brings me onto another thing, is it auto choke or manual?
I think the engine temps are also related to the timing btw, assuming the head hasn't cracked from the boiling over at the MOT. Compression tester will tell you what you need to know on that
Got it.
I think checking the obvious might be the way to go on this before carb rebuilds and diving in with things that might take the car off the road til Summer.
Are all the leads on properly, including the coil? Might also explain the temperatures, but I'm wondering if there's 1 problem here or a couple
I think checking the obvious might be the way to go on this before carb rebuilds and diving in with things that might take the car off the road til Summer.
Are all the leads on properly, including the coil? Might also explain the temperatures, but I'm wondering if there's 1 problem here or a couple
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