Advice regarding Alignment
Discussion
Looking for some advice regarding front wheel alignment please.
Ive just had new front tyres fitted and asked for an alignment which turned out to be -4 instead of 00.
The garage couldnt release the nuts on the passenger side track rod though (drivers side is new one fitted a couple of months ago.
What will this do to my newly fitted tyres being at -4? should i replace the old track rod and get it set to 00?
My old passenger tyre had been wearing evenly but driver side was worn on inner edge, but track rod had a loose joint which is why this was replaced.
Thanks for any advice
Ive just had new front tyres fitted and asked for an alignment which turned out to be -4 instead of 00.
The garage couldnt release the nuts on the passenger side track rod though (drivers side is new one fitted a couple of months ago.
What will this do to my newly fitted tyres being at -4? should i replace the old track rod and get it set to 00?
My old passenger tyre had been wearing evenly but driver side was worn on inner edge, but track rod had a loose joint which is why this was replaced.
Thanks for any advice
Depends entirely on what '00' and '-4' refers to. There are no fewer than four measurable geometry angles on your front suspension.
I'm guessing it's toe, in which case you have negative tow which will make the car prone to wandering and tram-lining, and fidgeting. It's worth adjusting out.
ETA: the tyres will wear slightly faster, particularly on the inner shoulder. Dunno how they'll fix it- new track rod and track rod end in the side which has seized, perhaps?
I'm guessing it's toe, in which case you have negative tow which will make the car prone to wandering and tram-lining, and fidgeting. It's worth adjusting out.
ETA: the tyres will wear slightly faster, particularly on the inner shoulder. Dunno how they'll fix it- new track rod and track rod end in the side which has seized, perhaps?
Edited by Classic Grad 98 on Thursday 5th January 18:24
It was a tyre depot (not kwik fit).
My wife had the car as she got it done while at the shops, she said they had the burner on the rod but nuts wouldnt budge, although she said he had stick thin arms.
Shes now saying its out by negative four but guess its the same as -4, sorry for being vague.
Thanks for replies, i may get the rod and end replaced as per the same as drivers side.
My wife had the car as she got it done while at the shops, she said they had the burner on the rod but nuts wouldnt budge, although she said he had stick thin arms.
Shes now saying its out by negative four but guess its the same as -4, sorry for being vague.
Thanks for replies, i may get the rod and end replaced as per the same as drivers side.
Cover it in some kind of penetrating oil and leave it to stew for a while, then see if you can move it with a long spanner. The worst that happens is it breaks and you have to replace it, which is what you'll have to do if you can't move it anyway.
Or just leave it and put up with slightly odd handling and marginally higher tyre wear.
Or just leave it and put up with slightly odd handling and marginally higher tyre wear.
Classic Grad 98 said:
You a PHer so you are naturally powerfully build? Why not try to crack off the seized lock nut yourself?
Exactly! What sort of PHer sends his good lady out to sort something as important as alignment and then doesn't bat an eyelid when she comes home making idle comments about the size of the arms of the chaps she's been hanging out with??Jeez.
Why did you only get one track rod end replaced? They should be replaced in pairs really. The garage that replaced the other one should have reset the tracking so we can assume the nut has recently been moved.
Tell the mechanic to put his bloody back into it!
Failing that, if it really is stuck, then remove and refit the whole track rod end, as opposed to the retaining nut.
the -4 is quiet a big difference and will cause the tyre to wear quicker on the inside edge, as well as causing the car to stray on bumps and tramlines.
You really should have got them both replaced though, so I would consider changing it anyway.
Tell the mechanic to put his bloody back into it!
Failing that, if it really is stuck, then remove and refit the whole track rod end, as opposed to the retaining nut.
the -4 is quiet a big difference and will cause the tyre to wear quicker on the inside edge, as well as causing the car to stray on bumps and tramlines.
You really should have got them both replaced though, so I would consider changing it anyway.
Andjc86- if you can't loosen the lock nut, you can't remove the track rod end. You'd have to replace the track rod, track rod end and lock nut. But I expect a skilled mechanic could get it off.
Four minutes cumulative toe out on the front axle is not a lot. It is one thirtieth of a degree on each side. It does not really explain the uneven tyre wear.
What is odd is that the recommended toe angle is zero, or parallel. Road cars usually have a little toe in.
Four minutes cumulative toe out on the front axle is not a lot. It is one thirtieth of a degree on each side. It does not really explain the uneven tyre wear.
What is odd is that the recommended toe angle is zero, or parallel. Road cars usually have a little toe in.
iva cosworth said:
Rubbish.
no at all, as per all suspension jobs, it should be replaced in pairs. At the end of the day, if one is f
ked and they were fitted at the same time, then the other will be in rougthly the same conditionClassic Grad 98 said:
Andjc86- if you can't loosen the lock nut, you can't remove the track rod end.
yes you can if you remove it from the hub, it aint the easiest, but its possible, and gets you out of a hole is the nut really is stuck on. I bet it isn't though, as I have only had that once and that was about 20 years old and completly rusted! Hence the reason i found the above method!With a flare nut spanner they normally always come off, as i said get another mechanic to have a go
Andyjc86 said:
yes you can if you remove it from the hub, it aint the easiest, but its possible, and gets you out of a hole is the nut really is stuck on. I bet it isn't though, as I have only had that once and that was about 20 years old and completly rusted! Hence the reason i found the above method!
With a flare nut spanner they normally always come off, as i said get another mechanic to have a go
It's easy to inspect and check the condition and operation of a track rod end. If one is knackred and the other is fine, there is no point replacing both. One of them may have been done before.With a flare nut spanner they normally always come off, as i said get another mechanic to have a go
Also I think you've missed a point on the seized bit. By my understanding, the track rod end is seized onto the track rod with the lock nut. It has nothing to do with the hub. Like I said, in the very unlikely case that they are seized solid, it's the rod, end and lock nut which will require replacement.
Andyjc86 said:
iva cosworth said:
Rubbish.
no at all, as per all suspension jobs, it should be replaced in pairs. At the end of the day, if one is fked and they were fitted at the same time, then the other will be in rougthly the same conditionout at a different rate......no ?
Do you replace everything in pairs ?....cv joints ?....brake calipers ?
Anyway i am not starting an internet arguement over this.Just my opinion.
and i was a main dealer technician for 16 years BTW.
Andyjc86 said:
See i read it as the nut was seized.
Whilst i don't always change them in pairs, thats normally at the customers request, I always recommend it, as with any suspension component.
Correct me if I'm wrong, I am not a professional mechanic- but on all the cars I've owned, you can adjust the toe without having to break the rod end/steering arm morse taper- you just unwind the lock nut and turn the whole rod with a spanner?Whilst i don't always change them in pairs, thats normally at the customers request, I always recommend it, as with any suspension component.
As ever, the PH "mechanics" know all.
Iva Cosworth. Yep. You are right unsurprisingly. You don't replace track rods (or the ends) in pairs. No need. Anyone that claims you need to is a) making more work for themself than is necessary and B) ripping off the customer.
To all the others saying "get some muscle on it" or "tell the fitter to pull his finger out"
You know NOTHING about what you are talking about. Trackrod locknuts tend to get covered in all sorts of st given their location. They seize up. You can wire brush them and spray copious amounts of WD40 in there. And some don't budge. In fact I've even had lock nuts round off from the amount of force being applied to them! You can even heat some up with Oxy Cetaline and get them glowing red hot. And sometimes they still won't budge. And of course lots of customers want all this work doing for free as "not my fault my cars got like that is it"
And can I point out to whoever, that if the lock nut is seized. Chances are that the track rod end is ALSO seized, so taking it from the hub CARRIER and trying to unwind it is equally unlikely to work. And of course not all track rod arms have loads of room for access making the job even worse!
Iva Cosworth. Yep. You are right unsurprisingly. You don't replace track rods (or the ends) in pairs. No need. Anyone that claims you need to is a) making more work for themself than is necessary and B) ripping off the customer.
To all the others saying "get some muscle on it" or "tell the fitter to pull his finger out"
You know NOTHING about what you are talking about. Trackrod locknuts tend to get covered in all sorts of s
t given their location. They seize up. You can wire brush them and spray copious amounts of WD40 in there. And some don't budge. In fact I've even had lock nuts round off from the amount of force being applied to them! You can even heat some up with Oxy Cetaline and get them glowing red hot. And sometimes they still won't budge. And of course lots of customers want all this work doing for free as "not my fault my cars got like that is it"And can I point out to whoever, that if the lock nut is seized. Chances are that the track rod end is ALSO seized, so taking it from the hub CARRIER and trying to unwind it is equally unlikely to work. And of course not all track rod arms have loads of room for access making the job even worse!
I had the locking nuts seize up such that the tracking couldn't be set. Had the whole track rod removed from the car and lots of heat applied to loosen them off. Then had the tracking set with state-of-the-art equipment ......... only to have the ball joints fail the next MoT a couple of months later 
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