"Black Box" Insurance
Discussion
Anyone been down this route, I have changed my car for an old 944 which is on a classic policy, I took a V reg Bora in PX for my previous car, now its a tidy old thing thats been looked after, it stands me at £500, my sixteen year old son has kind of adopted mentally like its a slightly whiffy but lovable old Border Collie as he will be learning later this year. I told him to get the idea out of his head as it is a fire breathing monster according to insurance companies as it has cc greater than a 1000. He looked a little crestfallen so I got a quote off the Co-Op for their Black Box scheme and it came back as £1300 for when he is learning and £1500 once he has passed.
£1500 to insure a 17 year old on a 2.0 car seems quite good, it is using my full NCD as the Porsche went on Classic, now this isnt fronting, he will be a named driver, it isnt his car, this will be for general use for me, the wife and him, I suspect the Porsche will occasionally be needing jobs or I dont want to leave a cabrio somewhere dodgy so serves a purpose.
Anyone used this scheme, is there aflaw in my logic, is a 2,0 Bora too much of a beast
is that quote too good to be true ? (never thought I would say that about a £1500 quote for a ratty old VW)
Its funny, in the US, nobody would bat an eyelid about someone having a "Jetta" as a first car.
£1500 to insure a 17 year old on a 2.0 car seems quite good, it is using my full NCD as the Porsche went on Classic, now this isnt fronting, he will be a named driver, it isnt his car, this will be for general use for me, the wife and him, I suspect the Porsche will occasionally be needing jobs or I dont want to leave a cabrio somewhere dodgy so serves a purpose.
Anyone used this scheme, is there aflaw in my logic, is a 2,0 Bora too much of a beast
is that quote too good to be true ? (never thought I would say that about a £1500 quote for a ratty old VW)Its funny, in the US, nobody would bat an eyelid about someone having a "Jetta" as a first car.
davepoth said:
Even if it isn't actually fronting, it looks like fronting. On the assumption that the 944 is your daily and your wife has a daily, the Bora looks like it would be your son's car. The insurance company will spot this and if he ever has an accident expect them to refuse the claim.
Is it actually possible to have a young person as a named driver without being accused of fronting ?My wife works at the school he will be at, she will get him to drive her there, he will have limited access to it, the Porsche is a classic car on a limited mileage policy.
Rawwr said:
Chuck the Bora in his name and get him to insure it with yourself and your wife as named drivers?
I don't want him seeing it as "his" car, he has two brothers who will need to learn, no modifications of any kind, he borrows my car, not the other way round, the box will be an ever present nanny. My wife has a Fiat 500 on Classic policy as well, would that be seen as her daily ? Rawwr said:
Sell it to him 
Nah, don't want him claiming it, he is a user of the car, not the owner, main driver or keeper, this is just to get him driving and some experience, not to provide him with a fronted set of wheels.I see it as a family "Pool" car really, I mean, he is at school, has very little income, he cant afford the fuel as he WILL be paying for whatever he uses. We were going to buy a new 107 to fulfil this role but I think this will do the job just as well apart from £215 road tax and lower MPG, but I dont have to lay out another seven grand to buy one, plus this is a proper car, almost.
Edited by J4CKO on Wednesday 18th January 12:59
davepoth said:
Even if it isn't actually fronting, it looks like fronting. On the assumption that the 944 is your daily and your wife has a daily, the Bora looks like it would be your son's car. The insurance company will spot this and if he ever has an accident expect them to refuse the claim.
So, they take the money based on the highest risk driver for the premium and add him as a named driver, the minute he drives it, he won't be covered as he is fronting. Only planning to do this for a year, maybe two hen he can get his own and build up some NCD in his name.Even if you can insure it at a reasonably rate, why would you want your son in a 2.0 Bora? You joke about it being a 'beast', but friends of mine have managed some pretty impressive accidents with 60BHP. Okay so he'll have an electronic nanny watching his every move, but how long will that be a deterrent for? only takes a moment to get carried away.
I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
J4CKO said:
I see it as a family "Pool" car really
By coincidence I was idly wondering about this the other day, of the potential difficulty in naming the main driver for a car that is shared. For example, Dad might drive the greatest distance (weekend trips), Mum might drive the most often (5 mile daily commute). Time spent in the driving seat might end up 50/50 (or 40/40/20 with a third driver).
Anyway, surely as long as the OP can demonstrate that the son's driving was not a majority of the driving (e.g. explaining minimal use of other cars), fronting shouldn't be an issue?
Classic Grad 98 said:
Even if you can insure it at a reasonably rate, why would you want your son in a 2.0 Bora? You joke about it being a 'beast', but friends of mine have managed some pretty impressive accidents with 60BHP. Okay so he'll have an electronic nanny watching his every move, but how long will that be a deterrent for? only takes a moment to get carried away.
I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
yes, thats more my point really, is a Bora 2.0 too powerful for the first car you drive (notice I didnt say first car), plan is that he drives him and my wife to work, gets sent on errands to the shops, no mates/brothers in the car and the minute he has any hint of not taking it seriously, he is not allowed the keys, kids need to realise what a privledge driving is, an expensive one.I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
Always been unsure of those black box insurance policies - can the price go up based on driving habits? They take into account all kinds of things, like cornering speed. Part of my commute is on a twisty NSL road - would this count against me?
If the price you paid was the maximum, and then you got a discount based on "good" behavior, then this wold work. If you had to top up the policy for "bad" driving it would be a nightmare. I suppose you could make your son pay any extra (if it exists) and it might encourage him to drive sensibly.
Also, as it has a GPS unit, they will be able to tell (to a degree) who the main user of the car is. Maybe put your wife down as the main driver, as 5 trips a week to his school and back could look bad.
If the price you paid was the maximum, and then you got a discount based on "good" behavior, then this wold work. If you had to top up the policy for "bad" driving it would be a nightmare. I suppose you could make your son pay any extra (if it exists) and it might encourage him to drive sensibly.
Also, as it has a GPS unit, they will be able to tell (to a degree) who the main user of the car is. Maybe put your wife down as the main driver, as 5 trips a week to his school and back could look bad.
braddo said:
Oh, and how does the black box know who's driving?
it doesn't, it just records where you are via GPS, how you drive via accelermoters and time via, er, a clock and records it for later analysis, would be happy if the driver had to log in as well so they could see the usage profile by driver, just to prove it isnt just him.Just been looking into this myself as my eldest is 17 in a couple of weeks.
The quote for the Bora seems very cheap.
I tried quotes through CO-op on their balck box for a 1.2 Clio and it came back at 3k ! Try Ikube they were cheaper. I think the black box insurances only work if the car is in your sons name but I may be wrong.
We (wife and I) have 3 cars on Admiral multi policy so I spoke to them and with his car coming on the group policy him as owner and main driver with us named came in at £1400 whilst provisional and £2100 when test passed.
Whilst learning have a look at young Marmalade at £85 pm they can drive any of your cars upto group 31 and then when passed go another route. This is what we have decided to do and he is happy as will learn in a Mini Cooper.
HTH
The quote for the Bora seems very cheap.
I tried quotes through CO-op on their balck box for a 1.2 Clio and it came back at 3k ! Try Ikube they were cheaper. I think the black box insurances only work if the car is in your sons name but I may be wrong.
We (wife and I) have 3 cars on Admiral multi policy so I spoke to them and with his car coming on the group policy him as owner and main driver with us named came in at £1400 whilst provisional and £2100 when test passed.
Whilst learning have a look at young Marmalade at £85 pm they can drive any of your cars upto group 31 and then when passed go another route. This is what we have decided to do and he is happy as will learn in a Mini Cooper.
HTH
J4CKO said:
Classic Grad 98 said:
Even if you can insure it at a reasonably rate, why would you want your son in a 2.0 Bora? You joke about it being a 'beast', but friends of mine have managed some pretty impressive accidents with 60BHP. Okay so he'll have an electronic nanny watching his every move, but how long will that be a deterrent for? only takes a moment to get carried away.
I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
yes, thats more my point really, is a Bora 2.0 too powerful for the first car you drive (notice I didnt say first car), plan is that he drives him and my wife to work, gets sent on errands to the shops, no mates/brothers in the car and the minute he has any hint of not taking it seriously, he is not allowed the keys, kids need to realise what a privledge driving is, an expensive one.I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
But that's just me. I don't think I learned much at all about driving until I was flying solo and throwing my little Clio at the horizon as fast as it could go. If it'd been a more powerful car- who knows, It may not have been the same shape as it was when I got it a year later!
My Dad was generous enough to buy me a Cat 'D' car nice and cheaply which I payed to insure, tax, MOT, repair, maintain etc. It was perfect.
^One caveat with all that is that I'm a petrolhead. If your son is disinterested with cars he is unlikely to want to look after his own car, and simularly might not be bothered about driving far too fast. He might be the most responsible 17 year old I've never met.
Young Marmalade as suggested above is a good plan if you aren't fussed about him having the ownership and responsability.
Young Marmalade as suggested above is a good plan if you aren't fussed about him having the ownership and responsability.
J4CKO said:
Classic Grad 98 said:
Even if you can insure it at a reasonably rate, why would you want your son in a 2.0 Bora? You joke about it being a 'beast', but friends of mine have managed some pretty impressive accidents with 60BHP. Okay so he'll have an electronic nanny watching his every move, but how long will that be a deterrent for? only takes a moment to get carried away.
I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
yes, thats more my point really, is a Bora 2.0 too powerful for the first car you drive (notice I didnt say first car), plan is that he drives him and my wife to work, gets sent on errands to the shops, no mates/brothers in the car and the minute he has any hint of not taking it seriously, he is not allowed the keys, kids need to realise what a privledge driving is, an expensive one.I say he has his own car and his own policy (with you/wifey on it to bring the premium down). That way he has his own responsability and a car he can learn on (driving, maintaining, fixing...)
Dave
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